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Brainstorming: Piano Roll


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#26 martinal

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 10:18

Actually, if you plan to make a piano roll that works like patterns (ie. the piano roll has the same size has pattern) I find it quite useless...

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that is exactly what it will be. See the thread "Some pattern ideas" for a discussion of what you want. If this is implemented, you'll be able to do this in patterns as well as piano roll.
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#27 Guest_Guest_Maurizio Giannelli_*

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 11:16

Hi Martinal,

Some Questions...

Renoise 1.3 have pianoroll?

Is Possible to assign at the PR any VST Instruments (Pro 52, B4, FM7 ecc, ecc, ) or one sample for any key.

Is Possible to create Range on the PR keyboard and assign a sample?

I can Make personalizated Bank?

Pianoroll import and export Midi file?

I make good House Music With Pianoroll!

Good Feature Martinal.

Sorry for my bad english.

Maurice G. :)

www.streetvibes.us

#28 martinal

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 12:56

> Renoise 1.3 have pianoroll?
Hopefully :-) Unless something unexpected happens, I think it will be finished, yes.
At least with the most basic features, more advanced ones might come later.

>Is Possible to assign at the PR any VST Instruments (Pro 52, B4, FM7 ecc, ecc, ) or one sample for any >key.

This pianoroll will be an editor of the patterndata, not separated as in Fruityloops.
So each note has it's own instrument like in the pattern. It's only another way to
visualize and edit the patterndata.

>Is Possible to create Range on the PR keyboard and assign a sample?
You will have to assign samples to a noterange in the instrument editor,
then use this instrument. But I could make a shortcut to assign the current
selected instrument to all notes in the current noteselection.

>I can Make personalizated Bank?
What do you mean? If you mean something related to the instruments, see above.

>Pianoroll import and export Midi file?
This has nothing to do with the pianoroll, really. The PR is merely a GUI to edit the existing data.

>I make good House Music With Pianoroll!
That's great :)
<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-family:Optima'><b>martin</b> at <i>renoise.com</i></span></span>

#29 DJ J-R

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 21:31

Hello martinal,

Just a little question: how the progress on the pianoroll??? just curious.

Keep up the good work your doing a good job here. (and also the rest of the renoise team.

JR B)

#30 martinal

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 00:10

It looks like a piano roll, it reads the pattern notes and shows them, it's zoomable and scrollable. But it's not yet possible to actually edit anything :rolleyes:

I've been very busy the last week or two, not much progress during this time...
But I estimate it'll be done for 1.3. Of course estimates are made to be exceeded in all software development... ;)
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#31 WeeTee

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 09:34

Sounds great, martinal.

Could we get a screen shot or something to get us wild while waiting for it? =)

I for one am all for the pianoroll.


BTW. I'm currently looking for the best way for me to register Renoise. Yesterday I signed on to PayPal, only to find out that I need a credit card if I don't have a U.S. bank account (I'm from Finland..)
-WeeTee-

#32 DJ J-R

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 11:10

Thanks martinal.

Some screenshots would be great :D :D :D

Best regards,

JR B)

#33 marc

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 17:11

a question:
with drumtracks, where you have different samples all playing at c-4 at the same time (i.e. base+hihat)
how will that look in the piano roll? will it be possible to edit all c-4 notes seperatly?

ok, kinda useless question, changing to root key for each sample isn't hard... but i ask anyway :P

#34 martinal

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 18:25

For a later version (ie not the first release) a drumtrack version of the pianoroll is possible, like done in many sequencers. Then the piano is replaced by a list of drum descriptions each which have a name ("Kick", "Snare" etc), an instrument number and a pitch assigned to it. A normal way to visualize the notes in such an editor is to use diamond shapes for the note start instead of bars covering the whole duration.

In this pianoroll, multiple C-4's at the same time will of course be drawn on top of each other. So if two notes in different notecolumns in the same track have the same pitch and last the exact same time, you won't be able to get to one of them. You could drag one up one pitch and drag it down later, but if you're using the pianoroll to edit drumtracks changing the root pitches would be highly recommendable. Easier to edit and easier to get the overview.

Current status: dragging notes is now almost finished, selection and deleting notes is finished. What's left is mainly applying edits to the pattern and some polishing. Multitrack editing will be there in the first version (it's already working).
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#35 WeeTee

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 20:50

Woohoo! I can't wait to try this..

.. although I'll probably have to wait for the next official release, 'cause I still haven't managed to register this fine piece of software.. [runs and hides in shame]

Or maybe I'll join the development team and save the registration cost =)


... really, I'd love to help in the development, if there's anything I can do to help.
-WeeTee-

#36 taktik

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 22:39

WeeTee :
are you maybe a mac developer ? hint :)

#37 Guest_WeeTee@School_*

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 12:11

No, sorry..

I'm mostly a Java programmer but I've done some C++ too.

#38 Guest_in_tenssi_*

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 00:23

just wanted to say that for me, the piano roll editor is really a moot point. personally i'm much more interested in a "track view" similar to logic/cubase where you can arragne patterns or groups of patterns very easily, and also draw enevlopes that are longer than one pattern.

for instance, and this is always true for dance music. you write a beat. you want to repeat it over 64 bars, maybe with some SLIGHT adjustments. this is a piece of cake in logic or cubase. you keep the beat sequence data in it's own "chunk" which you can then move around and/or copy at will. then all of the other parts you put into their own individual "chunk" which again can be moved around freely and independantly of one another.

i just got done writing a track in renoise (100%!!) and there were some parts that were needlessly tedius. like i wanted to open a filter up over the course of 32 measures. the envelope editor is not accurate enough, nor does it cover more than one pattern. i'm not going to make a pattern that is 16,000 ticks either (i haven't even tried that to be honest - nor would i).
so i had to make individual effect commands every 16 ticks, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, etc. all the way up.... this process took maybe a minute because i'm fast with a tracker. but in logic or cubase this would have taken literally about 5 seconds.

maybe i'm kicking a dead horse here but i just want to scream over and over and over again that the pattern sequence editor/order list is the most neglected part of the tracker anatomy and is really the biggest problem i have with using one!

regardless, i'm glad you are all working so hard on renoise. it is seriously badass. (although i would like to be able to use directX plugs also!)

keep up the great work guys

#39 Vohaul

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 01:03

maybe i'm kicking a dead horse here but i just want to scream over and over and over again that the pattern sequence editor/order list is the most neglected part of the tracker anatomy and is really the biggest problem i have with using one!


I agree here ... I think the pattern sequencer needs to be abstracted a bit and allow patterns to run in parallel at the same time. Also naming patterns would be an awesome feature, would be so much nicer than just using nondescript numbers. So (for example) I could make 4 drum patterns (nothing but the drumtrack) called D0, D1, D2, D3, and say make 2 bass/rhythm patterns called B0, B1, and then have say 8 lead/melody patterns called L0 - L7 ... then I could sequence them in parallel like so:


00: D0 | B0 | L0
01: D1 | B1 | L1
02: D2 | B0 | L2
03: D3 | B1 | L3
04: D0 | B0 | L0
05: D1 | B1 | L1
06: D2 | B0 | L2
07: D3 | B1 | L3
08: D0 | B0 | L4
09: D1 | B1 | L5
10: D2 | B0 | L6
11: D3 | B1 | L7
12: D0 | B0 | L4
13: D1 | B1 | L5
14: D2 | B0 | L6
15: D3 | B1 | L7


Of course it would have to allow more than 3 patterns to play in parallel, it would also have to allow for patterns of differing lengths, and allow empty spots in the pattern sequencer.

I think this method would work really well.

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 08:41

that is EXACTLY what i am talking about.

#41 martinal

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 08:47

You should read (quickly) through at least the pinned topics before posting new ideas (would've saved you some time :) )

Some Pattern Ideas
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#42 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 18:15

hehe my sincerest apologies :) i guess it's already beigng covered (which is f'ing GREAT!!!!!!!)

#43 Guest_Wen_*

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Posted 03 April 2003 - 12:47

Hello.
I am kind of hesistant on suggesting new ideas/ requesting features, for i am not YET a registered user, but here goes.
The drumtracks-pianoroll thingie is going to be great, but one little thing that some sequencers dont have but what would really rock, is a possibility to write noteoffs there for drums. Or possibility to configure that one channel note will note-cutoff another channel. The main usage being shutting that open hat, when closed hat will be played.
If velocity layers and akai/sf2 import will be one day done then incredible realistic acoustic drum-solos will be piece of cake to make :)


Ah, if for a reason someone wants to see a wacky implementation pianoroll in tracker then http://www.bluemoon....cwin/index.html was a program that is tracker inside, but pianoroll-based sequencer outside. First dos version made 12 years ago :)

#44 Guest_Guest_Maurizio Giannelli_*

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 08:28

Hi martinal.

Where is the evolution of the Piano roll???

Some Piano Roll screenshots would be great !!!!

Maurizio Giannelli
Thank's.

#45 DJ J-R

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 09:47

Hi martinal.

Where is the evolution of the Piano roll???

Some Piano Roll screenshots would be great !!!!

Maurizio Giannelli
Thank's.

Would be great :D :D

Jeroen

#46 martinal

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 12:23

Here you go:
http://folk.uio.no/m...l/pianoroll.JPG
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#47 Johan

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 17:22

Nice work :)

I hope the colours will be definable so we can make the sheet black as we're used to on the pattern... :)

#48 marc

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 19:30

oo this pic looks cool makes ma palms sweaty...
may i just have one suggestion, it would be cool if black-key notes would have a little darker color in the background of the matrix.

#49 Vohaul

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 22:20

oo this pic looks cool makes ma palms sweaty...
may i just have one suggestion, it would be cool if black-key notes would have a little darker color in the background of the matrix.

It would be even cooler if one could specify what key one is working in, and it would slightly darken the background of notes not in that key. So if you are in Cmaj / Amin (should be the default), it would darken the black key notes, if you specified another key it would darken the appropriate notes ... of course this would need to be on/off by the user. For people that just want the black-note-backgrounds dark, they could just leave it at the Cmaj/Amin and not worry about it. Or just turn it off altogether for those who don't like it.

#50 martinal

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Posted 04 April 2003 - 23:05

These are both nice ideas, never thought about that. I might do marcs idea for the first release, but I think I'll save Vohauls idea for a later release.

I've been thinking about having a "snap to key" mode, where you can select a root and a mode (major, minor, maybe additional modes as well) and input notes to keys in this mode. This would fit well with visualizing the key as Vohaul suggested. But I will leave that for later, since there are a lot of more important things to do first.
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