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#1 Sid

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:14

Apparently he does his stuff in Renoise and previously Octamed. Listening to the insane music he makes, I don’t personally think he could have done this in anything other than a tracker. I’d like to know whether anyone’s thinks this is true? To me it underlines the strengths of using a tracker, I’d can’t imagine anyone coming up with this sort of complexity with cubase etc?

#2 It-Alien

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:22

once I had in my signature "music you cannot make in Cubase": I agree that are some kinds of music you simply cannot make in a "standard" sequencer, not because it's technically impossible, but because the superior flexibility of trackers tend to let you think of more unconventional music.

of course, any Cubase user would not be agree with this, but honestly the facts seem to be on our side.
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#3 Sid

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:33

once I had in my signature "music you cannot make in Cubase"


Thats what I like to hear.

#4 BotB

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 13:23

but recording a band in renoise, on the other hand, it still very close to hell

#5 OverCoat

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 13:38

Cubase, FL, Sonar, Renoise, whatever. Anything with ASIO, audio recording, and VST hosting is just as capable as anything else. The difference is all in workflow. So yeah, he really could have done Vache in Cubase, but it probably was much more comfortable to do in Renoise.
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#6 Sid

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 13:53

I suppose my questions more inclined to people who’ve moved over to Renoise from one of the usual sequencers. As an ex-cubase user I personally don’t think I could have done the stuff I do these days on cubase.The more I use Renoise the more I tend to think of it as an advanced composition tool as opposed to just something you write music on, I start off trying to do something I have in mind and it tends to lead me off into something else and I’m usually pleased with the results. Apart from that its cheap, fun, doesn’t crash and looks impressive with all the tracks moving up the screen. Sometimes I load cubase up, laugh at it and close it down again.

#7 vV

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 14:35

Apparently he does his stuff in Renoise and previously Octamed. Listening to the insane music he makes, I don’t personally think he could have done this in anything other than a tracker. I’d like to know whether anyone’s thinks this is true? To me it underlines the strengths of using a tracker, I’d can’t imagine anyone coming up with this sort of complexity with cubase etc?


He has Cubase SX and Pro tools as well.

An excerpt from Aaron's interview in the latest CM music:

Still choosing to do the bulk of his writing and engineering in modern tracker software, his personal tool of choice being Renoise.

"I really do hate doing breakbeats in anything other than a tracker, I'm sure i could do the same in Cubase or Logic, but i just don't want to have to sit there and mess around with a load of gates and VST plugins designed to imitate things i could do easily back on Amiga"

I'll guess that's your answer.
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#8 Sid

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 15:00

He has Cubase SX and Pro tools as well.

An excerpt from Aaron's interview in the latest CM music:


I'll guess that's your answer.


From the horses mouth so to speak. Thus endeth the subject.
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#9 J Swift

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 19:33

I used to work at this studio in london, around 2002 there was an influx of IDM-type stuff coming in - I remember this one guy had an EP coming out on some small-ish indie label and I was talking to him on MSN about it: what he wanted done, whether I thought it needed mixing down again, etc.

Anyway, this tune was a pretty generic Squarepusher/VSnares type thing, with an orchestral soundtrack and some crazy drums over it... Turned out these two tracks had taken the guy 6 months to write - working on them solidly in Logic... And that was almost entirely drum programming.

It turned out he was cutting up breaks on Logic's arrange page; programming gates and effects with Logic's automation; going right down to microediting for those drill-n-bass rolls and things... He'd spend a whole day on a few seconds of this really intricate programming... Really going into great detail to try and get the kind of solid sounding results that come naturally from just using simple tracker functions.

Turned out he'd been studying music tech at college, and everyone had told him to use Logic for this, as it was "the best" - when I mentioned that guys like Aaron Funk use soundtrackers, and Tom Jenkinson uses a Yamaha QY700, he actually refused to believe me... When I told him there were simple keyboard commands for doing those kinds of rolls and cutting up breaks, and that a lot of IDM musicians are actually prolific, writing hundreds of tunes a year, he had what I can only describe as an online nervous breakdown... Swearing, telling me I was lying, occassional moments of clarity where he'd fire off 12 really coherent questions about trackers and hardware sequencers...

Never heard from him again... He either got into tracking, gave up music, or jumped out a window there and then...

I think Cubase is horrible for programming electronic music... The whole format was designed for live recording... Nothing about it is designed for working with loops or getting ideas down quickly... It's also so fiddly just doing simple things - cutting up breaks, programming drums, etc. adjusting windows, clicking 15 boxes, saving sounds from one directory, opening a channel, opening a sampler, loading them from another, etc. why? why? why does anyone go to all that effort? Ableton's much better imo. but still there's many things, esp working with breaks, which are horrible to do in it! And fine tuning and editing sounds too...Lots of little quirks in Ableton and Cubase which mean you often can't, physically, get the results you want to - no matter what you do... I've spoken to their developers about this.

Edited by J Swift, 30 May 2007 - 19:36.

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#10 mat-weasel

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 21:38

Does Venetian Snare plays live with renoise??

I will play live just after him in a big spanish festival in barcelona in october! i will have the answer :)

But a hardware live, i really don't know how to play live "efficiently" with renoise!!

#11 029

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 03:07

once I had in my signature "music you cannot make in Cubase": I agree that are some kinds of music you simply cannot make in a "standard" sequencer, not because it's technically impossible, but because the superior flexibility of trackers tend to let you think of more unconventional music.

of course, any Cubase user would not be agree with this, but honestly the facts seem to be on our side.


Hi,

I've been making music with cubase for the last 8 years or so... And I must say that I definetely do agree with you :)

There is so much stuff that cannot be done in cubase... For example... I sold my soul and started using loops from sample CD's which I've allways been against, because you simply cannot make beats in a sequencer so that it's innovative... at least when you compare the methods available to tracking it feels sooo sooo sooo sloooww :):) Urgh... :) uhh... I'm so happy that finally there is a tracker to make music with.
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#12 vV

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 13:00

I'm so happy that finally there is a tracker to make music with.

:blink:
You probably mean, you are so happy you woke up after 15 years of tracker prosperity B)
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#13 Guest_kaneel_*

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 13:51

HO LOL@VVPWNAGE :)

#14 nagz

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 14:30

Does Venetian Snare plays live with renoise??


when he was playing here, i just took a peek at his gears, it was not renoise.
reasonably. renoise is better for arrangement only this way :)

#15 Guest_kaneel_*

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 14:36

Herrr, all the videos ive seen of him live were actually about: two cdjs.

Edited by kaneel, 31 May 2007 - 14:37.


#16 Conner_Bw

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 15:46

Herrr, all the videos ive seen of him live were actually about: two cdjs.


I saw him play Montreal a few months ago. CDJ it was.

The show was loud, intense, and awesome. CDJ sets of original material rocks the house in my world.

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#17 JBL

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 21:04

I suppose my questions more inclined to people who’ve moved over to Renoise from one of the usual sequencers. As an ex-cubase user I personally don’t think I could have done the stuff I do these days on cubase.The more I use Renoise the more I tend to think of it as an advanced composition tool as opposed to just something you write music on, I start off trying to do something I have in mind and it tends to lead me off into something else and I’m usually pleased with the results. Apart from that its cheap, fun, doesn’t crash and looks impressive with all the tracks moving up the screen. Sometimes I load cubase up, laugh at it and close it down again.


Haha that would be a great ad for Renoise..


HO LOL@VVPWNAGE :)


I LOL'D too.

#18 Kameleontti

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 23:33

I don't think he has done anything unusual but that's just me.

But you are right, as I said before, trackers are like instruments for composing compared to modern sequencers, which are more suitable for recording live sessions etc. Personally I think the freshest music in the world arises from scene. And Timbaland knows that too. ;)

#19 029

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 00:00

:blink:
You probably mean, you are so happy you woke up after 15 years of tracker prosperity B)


heh actually no... :) I started gigging at raves in 1994 using 2 PC's with FT2 setup :yeah: :yeah: Before that I had already tracked for 2-4 years on noisetracker and Protracker

Sadly the trackers have allways been a bit behind when it comes to serious stuff with external gear and I had to switch to cubase in 1999 because it offered at least some sort of support for external hardware synths :(:(

I've been following the evolvement of trackers ever since with great anticipation... And finally...!!!! finally a tracker with AUDIO IN & support for external gear without midi drop outs... ;) :drummer: :guitar: :walkman:
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#20 Guest_kaneel_*

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 00:02

damn.. 99... thats when I started.

#21 ideomux

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 00:13

snares uses denon cd turntables <3

#22 escii

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 14:57

Does Venetian Snare plays live with renoise??

I will play live just after him in a big spanish festival in barcelona in october! i will have the answer :)

But a hardware live, i really don't know how to play live "efficiently" with renoise!!



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#23 Conner_Bw

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 16:10

I think it would be cool if Venetian Snares entered something into beat battle 5, a tutorial on 'how to be him' for the thousands of people who do. Followed by a thousand haters criticizing his tracking style as not nerdy enough.

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#24 sknk

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 11:07

i reckon you could do it in cubase,.... but as someone who's defected from cubase, 4 bars would probably take a couple of weeks :P

i've never used a tracker before but i was bobing my head to an impromptu jungle beat within the hour of downloading the renoise demo, whereas the first time i touched cubase i spent days just figureing out what everything is, and what else i needed to do what i wanted to do.

but as JSwift said, cubase was designed for a completely different purpose, so apples and oranges and all that.

and yeah, that "loading up cubase and laughing" quote should be on the renoise home page. :D

#25 BotB

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 17:12

apples and oranges and all that.


making orange things :D