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[???] Vista: RME Hammerfall ASIO works, but Audio in Windows not


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#1 J Swift

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 06:41

I've recently moved over to Vista - with an RME Hammerfall Multiface 24/96 interface

In Win XP, on my old laptop, had no problem with ASIO... With Vista it never worked - just glitched or worked occassionally - so I used Direct Sound

However... with the new Beta, suddenly ASIO works perfectly (Fantastic!)

...only downside is that after running Renoise, I can't play any audio in Windows... Trying to play an mp3 gives me a Windows Media error... If a website wants to stream audio I get explorer freezing on me

Other than that though, absolutely blown away by this update! Fantastic work :D

...about the only feature I've ever suggested that's not in there now is the Jeff Minter-style light synth in the spectrum view box ;)

#2 vadarfone

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 08:36

Haha. Haha.
Setup: Lenovo IdeaCentre K320 3019QJ 8GB RAM, etc.

Linux Mint as main OS, Ubuntu, 7, XP, Arch all in VirtualBox.

Loving Linux.

#3 Djeroek

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 11:11

All these vista problems I'm reading on the web convince me to buy Xp64 if I'll upgrade.

#4 taktik

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 11:18

...only downside is that after running Renoise, I can't play any audio in Windows... Trying to play an mp3 gives me a Windows Media error... If a website wants to stream audio I get explorer freezing on me


I doubt that we can do something to fix this. Its up to the driver to either share the recources or not, so this will be either a limitation or bug of the ASIO driver.

To be sure that this is correct: Could you try to run the Hammerfall with another ASIO app like Ableton Live, Reason or Aodix and test if it behaves the same here?

#5 J Swift

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 13:00

It works okay with Ableton Live actually, and it did work occassionally with the previous Renoise Beta (or possibly the one before that - i can't quite remember), without causing this particular problem

it's just that most of the time, with the previous Beta, selecting ASIO would just result in the occassional glitch noise and mostly silence

must say I do like Vista, despite the teething problems

i've still got an XP laptop as well, but there are a number of things about Vista which make it much less irritating... not having to restart all the time for one... to me, it makes the computer feel like less of a burden, more of an assistant - much more like using a Mac

#6 taktik

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 13:05

It works okay with Ableton Live actually, and it did work occassionally with the previous Renoise Beta (or possibly the one before that - i can't quite remember), without causing this particular problem


I see. Then I guess that this fix for the WDM MIDI stuff has caused this:
http://www.renoise.c...&...ost&p=98520

I hate computers. Don't ask me what to do now...

#7 J Swift

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 16:28

haha, ahh... i should perhaps mention my midi timing has been a little off too

i've been using a couple of roland sound modules and just having them play back a few percussive patterns, and there's occassional, quite unpredictable note delays getting in there

i meant to double check with the juno as well, cos that always had better midi timing, just to make sure it's not a hardware issue

in fact, the midi timing i'm getting now is much the same as ableton live's - where i found renoise was quite solid before, bar the occassional skip which seemed proportional to soundcard latency every 6 events or so

if it wasn't for renoise i'd have switched over to a QY700 years ago ;)

Edited by J Swift, 11 September 2007 - 16:29.


#8 taktik

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 11:20

I have added an option to disable the WDM stuff for the next build, so we can check if that's really causing your problems. I will let you know more about this as soon as the next release is out. Please remind me, if I forget this...

haha, ahh... i should perhaps mention my midi timing has been a little off too

i've been using a couple of roland sound modules and just having them play back a few percussive patterns, and there's occassional, quite unpredictable note delays getting in there

i meant to double check with the juno as well, cos that always had better midi timing, just to make sure it's not a hardware issue

in fact, the midi timing i'm getting now is much the same as ableton live's - where i found renoise was quite solid before, bar the occassional skip which seemed proportional to soundcard latency every 6 events or so

if it wasn't for renoise i'd have switched over to a QY700 years ago ;)


How big is your ASIO latency? The smaller the latency, the better will the timing be. And does this always happen or just when mixing Audio with MIDI while Audio uses a lot of CPU in Renoise? The more CPU is taken up by the Audio stuff, the less CPU is "available" for the MIDI timing.

Also see http://www.renoise.c...showtopic=13303 about the new WDM MIDI support.

#9 J Swift

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 11:34

I'm on 44ms latency (I believe)... It is a little higher than I'd like but I'm such a big fan of this Nebula 2 plug-in at the moment, and it's a beast on CPU

It happens at the moment with relatively little CPU usage - just 3 tracks playing drums with no effects... But I will double check this shortly with the Juno

It's very much the same kind of jittery timing I always get with Ableton Live, and not the kind which seemed slight (and proportional to latency) which I used to get with Renoise.

One thing I have wondered about in the past is whether note off and note on events might be too close together for some sound modules - for example, playing a monophonic sound, retriggering the same note/sound, because that's where I've often had problems in the past.

I'll update asap!

#10 J Swift

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 15:24

Right, I have some new results.

After restarting, and opening/closing Renoise, I'm currently able to play audio in Windows - so perhaps an occassional or one-off problem? Should know soon.

re: MIDI timing

At the moment, it seems very connected to workload.

At 44ms latency, occassional note skipping - playing monophonic line back on Juno 106 along with basic drums w/o effects in Renoise... About once every 2-3 seconds, note skip must only be about a 1/3rd of an event, because it sounds like it's playing triplets when it does it.

At 22ms and 11ms latency, progressively much worse note skipping. Much more frequent.

At 90+ms latency, about the same as 44ms

With a CPU intensive plug-in patched in (40-50% CPU), note skipping becomes much worse - often skipping a whole bar, then spurting the notes out all at once!

#11 taktik

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 20:33

There are now two new hidden option in the Beta 8 build:
If you open the config.xml file at (x:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Application Data\Renoise\V1.9.0) with a text editor, you may set the options:

<EnableWindowsWDMDevices>true</EnableWindowsWDMDevices>
to
<EnableWindowsWDMDevices>false</EnableWindowsWDMDevices>

to test if the RME works in Windows when using it via ASIo in Renoise.

and

<EnableUserModeEventScheduling>true</EnableUserModeEventScheduling>
to
<EnableUserModeEventScheduling>false</EnableUserModeEventScheduling>

to get back the old Renoise 1.8 MIDI timing

Before changing these settings it would be great if you could testdrive the b8 builds without changin any of these otions. Maybe the problems are fixed with the other improvements in b8...

#12 taktik

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 11:20

Any news about this one?