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[buggy plug] Running out of memory with East West VST


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#1 Barry

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 08:26

So this is the first time I've really pushed renoise with some memory heavy vst's.. and I've got it crashing fairly regularly when I hit that 1.6 gig of memory usage in task manager.. I realize taskmanager isnt the best method of guageing just how much memory one is using, but its all i've got at the moment..

Runnin xp, tascam 1884 asio.. and an impressive amount of plugins.. 3 gig of ram /pae yada yada..

Getting lots of "you're going to run out of memory dude" type messages whenever I fire up some east west type vst's...

Also noticed tonight for the first time a feature that would be uber handy for renoise that Skale tracker has..

Skale has this button to press that in effect, doubles your pattern length, and expands all notelengths to double too, so when you run into a situation where you wanna squeeze more notes in, you can hit the button, then double yer bpm and yer back in business.. it also has one for halving it..

It may be in renoise, i just cant find it yet.. :) someone set me straight if it is :)

Keep up the good work lads..
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#2 danoise

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 08:43

Sorry to hear about the crashing problem. But as for your question about increasing size/resolution:

You can open "advanced edit" (little icon in the right side of the pattern editor), and choose to "expand" whatever part of the song you want - be it the current track, pattern or the entire song. It can of course also help you to reduce the size to 50%, but you may risk losing notes doing this (if they are places on "off" positions, such as 1,3,5,7...)

Hope this helps!

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#3 Barry

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 08:52

Aye thanks for that, someone in the IRC channel set me straight.. Figured it was probably in there, i just couldnt find the damn button ;)

thanks :)
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Phenom 2 x4 940 BE @ 3.6ghz. 4GB 1066 Ram. Radeon HD 5870, 4 x Intel x25-M SSD's in RAID0 on Rocketraid 4330. 2 1TB drives for VST / Samples. Tascam 1884 FW, Dual 24" LCD's JBL speakers, Mackie 24x8 desk.. 7 x64..

#4 Guest_Bantai_*

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 11:00

The main cause is that Renoise doesn't yet have a Direct From Disk feature, but instead reads the complete VST into memory. DFD is certainly on the todo list. Until then, using VST Aliases may aleviate the problem a bit.

A second reason is that not always the full amount of RAM is available to the OS (there is a 3GB switch in boot.ini that may solve that).

1.8 running out of memory with East West

Actions taken in 1.8 regarding to running out of memory

#5 taktik

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 11:12

Getting lots of "you're going to run out of memory dude" type messages whenever I fire up some east west type vst's...


When running out of memory this is the only thing we can do (beside forcing to quit the application). Also VSTs might immediately crash after running out of memory.

Lets try to find out why "East West" needs such a huge amount of memory...

#6 It-Alien

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 11:26

Barry, I suggest you to try one thing:

save your multi from East West VST and load them in a single Kontakt2 (even simply the Player version) instance and use its VST aliases in Renoise to use all its instruments.

as I've said here, East West VST's are based on Kontakt1.5, so you'd benefit a lot in using Kontakt2 instead of them.

the topic I've linked above is about a "low memory" warning which appears upon loading songs made in Renoise 1.5 using Kontakt 1.5 and being loaded in Renoise 1.9, so this might be related.
my specs:
cpu:Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 (4x2.83Ghz, FSB 1333Mhz)
os:Win7 Home Premium 64bit - OSX 10.9.1 64bit
audio: M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 PCI


Unschemed, hypertechnical tracked music. Sounding different since 1993.

my latest song: Lavender Town Syndrome (11'33", Psychedelic Beast)


where to find more music by me: soundcloud , jamendo , last.fm , napodano.com , facebook

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("Lavender Town Syndrome, 11'33" Psychedelic Beast)

#7 Barry

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 03:25

Yeah the DFD thing would help i'm sure, but this kontakt2 solution sounds interesting, thanks for that i"ll try it out..

Also have you guys checked out that www.fusionio.com announcement ?

I'm thinkin one of those would would solve the worlds problems ;)

B
-------------------------------------

Phenom 2 x4 940 BE @ 3.6ghz. 4GB 1066 Ram. Radeon HD 5870, 4 x Intel x25-M SSD's in RAID0 on Rocketraid 4330. 2 1TB drives for VST / Samples. Tascam 1884 FW, Dual 24" LCD's JBL speakers, Mackie 24x8 desk.. 7 x64..

#8 Nekativ

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 12:29

I'm running East West stuff like Colossus, RA and Vapor. Loading 2gb piano bank isn't much of a problem. But I do indeed have DFD on in Colossus. Don't these East West plugs you got have an DFD option? I remember having updated a couple of times over the year to get DFD properly working though. You might want to download a patch from NI.

#9 Nekativ

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 12:47

Ay, i'd like to off topic respond to this one :

Also have you guys checked out that www.fusionio.com announcement ?


It sounds very nice :) But probably not for audio systems though, as I really wonder what kind of a load that card would give on your PCI stuff. My soundcard already isn't really 'crackling' free as it is and I suppose using this kind of storage won't improve the odds of being so. You're probably going to kill streaming audio trough your mainboard whenever this one is active :) I suppose that thing isn't made with audio in mind, hence it not being listed in the "Which applications will benefit from using the ioDrive™?" in their FAQ.. But I could be wrong on this one of course.

#10 It-Alien

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 21:24

I want to point out that the topic linked by me is about RNS files made in RNS1.5 and loaded into 1.8.

Note that saving those files as XRNS in 1.9 fixes the problem.
my specs:
cpu:Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 (4x2.83Ghz, FSB 1333Mhz)
os:Win7 Home Premium 64bit - OSX 10.9.1 64bit
audio: M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 PCI


Unschemed, hypertechnical tracked music. Sounding different since 1993.

my latest song: Lavender Town Syndrome (11'33", Psychedelic Beast)


where to find more music by me: soundcloud , jamendo , last.fm , napodano.com , facebook

RTFM.gif

("Lavender Town Syndrome, 11'33" Psychedelic Beast)

#11 troupe

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:34

I want to point out that the topic linked by me is about RNS files made in RNS1.5 and loaded into 1.8.

Note that saving those files as XRNS in 1.9 fixes the problem.


I want to point out that the topic linked by It-Alien was made by me, and that my issue has nothing to do with songs made in RNS1.5. This issue applies to every version of every song ever made in any version of Renoise and loaded in RNS1.9. It is also not a "this takes too much memory issue", it is a "Renoise is incorrectly reporting the amount of free memory" issue. I've just emailed Taktik about it to see if we can work it out (since it's now not even letting me load soundfonts) so hopefully if anyone else is having similar problems they will contribute in any way Taktik commands :)

A side note -- I've always had DFD active in the EWQL Symphonic vsti, but is this just for show, and Renoise isn't actually allowing and disk streaming? I was under the impression that it was improving performance but I never did any scientific tests.

-Troupe

#12 vV

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 15:41

A side note -- I've always had DFD active in the EWQL Symphonic vsti, but is this just for show, and Renoise isn't actually allowing and disk streaming? I was under the impression that it was improving performance but I never did any scientific tests.

-Troupe


DFD should be handled by the plugin itself, Renoise has no influence on that matter.
Renoise itself does not has a DFD feature meaning:it does not load samples from disk during play.
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#13 taktik

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 20:00

Finally found out the reason for this:

We mark the Renoise 1.9 executable via a flag (/LARGEADDRESSAWARE) which tells the OS that the app wants to handle more than 2GB (up to 3GB if present) memory. Seems that this flag breaks some VST plugs. Dont ask me how they manage to do this, but this is definitely a bug in the plugs then.

The only thing we could do is removing this flag again, but then Renoises max memory usage will be limited to 2GB instead of 3GB again. Thats not worth it, or?

#14 It-Alien

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 20:38

which are the plugs? EWQL can be easily (in my opinion) substituted by Kontakt2
my specs:
cpu:Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 (4x2.83Ghz, FSB 1333Mhz)
os:Win7 Home Premium 64bit - OSX 10.9.1 64bit
audio: M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 PCI


Unschemed, hypertechnical tracked music. Sounding different since 1993.

my latest song: Lavender Town Syndrome (11'33", Psychedelic Beast)


where to find more music by me: soundcloud , jamendo , last.fm , napodano.com , facebook

RTFM.gif

("Lavender Town Syndrome, 11'33" Psychedelic Beast)

#15 taktik

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 20:40

which are the plugs?


EWQL and SFZ are the ones I am aware of but there might be more....

#16 ogge a

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 21:52

which are the plugs? EWQL can be easily (in my opinion) substituted by Kontakt2


I was under the impression that the East West products simply use Kontakt player or whatever it's called, do you know if this is true/is this what you mean?

#17 It-Alien

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 22:38

EWQL uses Kontakt 1.5 player, while Kontakt is at stable release 2.2.3 (3.0 has been just released), and it's far better. that's why I'm saying that.
my specs:
cpu:Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 (4x2.83Ghz, FSB 1333Mhz)
os:Win7 Home Premium 64bit - OSX 10.9.1 64bit
audio: M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 PCI


Unschemed, hypertechnical tracked music. Sounding different since 1993.

my latest song: Lavender Town Syndrome (11'33", Psychedelic Beast)


where to find more music by me: soundcloud , jamendo , last.fm , napodano.com , facebook

RTFM.gif

("Lavender Town Syndrome, 11'33" Psychedelic Beast)