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[buggy VST fixed] Bass Station And V-station Still Crashing Randoml


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#1 lerchiosi

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 20:52

Hi renoise developers thought id better report this seeing as it was apparently 'fixed' in RC2
still having troubles with these two VSTI's from novation , here is a link to a song that loads up most of the time now but still crashes about 25% of the time! i have tried setting renoise to run with 1 core and 2 cores but crashes seem to occur with both now ! :(

http://hyperfileshare.com/d/a1cb32ae

hit the light blue download button a couple of times and u will recieve it,

i know something as been improved because this song would refuse to load up 99% of the time with RC1 !!!
it has v-station and bass station in the track, along with hypersonic and Polysix

I really hope this is solved before the final is out bass-station is my favourite synth!!

if all else fails i will stop using novation's VSTIs because of lack of support !!
thanks developers

#2 keith303

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 22:22

novation synths have always been tricky ever since i am using renoise.
it all started when i got a hyperthreading capable pentium4 years ago and i can confirm that the problem is sill there, even though it has gotten better and hardware has changed.

still, every 3rd or 4th tryout to load the song (or any other song using novation stuff) will make renoise crash with the following message:

Posted Image

it doesn't matter what button you click here. renoise will be terminated either way.

#3 lerchiosi

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 22:56

yeah i understand if i turn off the second core in my bios settings it will stop crashing ?? damn , i wish novation would update these instruments, what version numbers you using keith303 ? and were you tracking in the old BBS days ? Do u remember a group called P$P Plate Steel Productions ??? i vaguely remember your name (around 12 - 13 years ago!!!)

#4 keith303

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 01:56

yeah i understand if i turn off the second core in my bios settings it will stop crashing ??

haven't checked that since i am on a dual core, but in the past p4-hyperthreading-days, disabling the 2nd (virtual-) core resolved the problem.

what version numbers you using keith303?

both, bass- and v-station are at v1.40 here. referring to the novation website, these are still the recent versions.

and were you tracking in the old BBS days ?
i vaguely remember your name (around 12 - 13 years ago!!!)

i started tracking in '93 and have been quite busy with my 14k4 modem on some regional BBSes. so it's likely that it's been me... it's a shame how fast time marches on.

Do u remember a group called P$P Plate Steel Productions?

nope. :-/

#5 taktik

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:32

Sorry should have send out testbuilds to verify the fix, before marking the bug fixed. But let me explain how the "fix" looks like, then we might find out why it doesn't work for you:

The Novation VSTs seem to need some time to initialize itself after loading on multi processor machines (before you can use them). Depending on the system config and whats currently happening there, this may take sometimes longer, sometimes not. Right now I am doing a:

""
Load the VST dll.

If this is a BassStation or VStation:
- Wait a bit

Then shake hands and start using the VST.
""

So either you are using an old version of the VSTs where this hack doesn't help (or the Cubase versions - haven't checked them here). Or your DLLs are named differently (mine are called "Bass-Station.dll" and "V-Station.dll" - both also with the in demo flavors: "Bass-Station Demo.dll" and "V-Station Demo.dll"), so they are not recognized correctly.

Or this "- Wait a bit" should be a "- Wait a bit more" to make it always work on various systems.

So please check the following:

- Are you running the latest version of the VSTs and are you NOT using the Cubase versions?
- What is the exact name of the VST dlls?

I will add that "- Wait a bit more" hack to be sure that it works most of the time. This will make loading songs with such VSTs longer, but thats still better than a crash...

Keith: Would be great if you could test this issue then in the next private dev builds.


And this obviously is a bug in the VST. This crash on dual cores happens in various hosts - randomly - for example also in Ableton Live.
I will write them a friendly mail, maybe they have a more safe workaround for us...

#6 keith303

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 12:48

So either you are using an old version of the VSTs where this hack doesn't help (or the Cubase versions - haven't checked them here).

both plugins are at version 1.4.0.0, which is still the most recent version referring to the novation website.
both are retail versions.

Or your DLLs are named differently (mine are called "Bass-Station.dll" and "V-Station.dll"

same names here.

Keith: Would be great if you could test this issue then in the next private dev builds.

count on me.

I will write them a friendly mail again, maybe they have at least a more safe workaround for us...

even though they're still offering both VSTi on their website and have demo version ready for download, further info and stuff, i think that they've somewhat abondoned these synths. if i am not mistaken, those 1.4 versions are from 2005, which is quite a while ago already.
but mailing those chaps sure can't hurt.

#7 dblue

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 13:32

I have both Bass Station and V-Station and have never had any serious problems with either of them in the past. I haven't actually used them much with the latest 1.9 builds of Renoise, but I will try to check them out tonight.

#8 taktik

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 13:43

I have both Bass Station and V-Station and have never had any serious problems with either of them in the past. I haven't actually used them much with the latest 1.9 builds of Renoise, but I will try to check them out tonight.


Note that this bug only occours on multiprocessor machines (and HyperThreading CPUs), so if you are running a single CPU...

#9 dblue

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 13:46

Note that this bug only occours on multiprocessor machines (and HyperThreading CPUs), so if you are running a single CPU...

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+

Does dualcore count, or do you literally mean 2 actual CPUs?

.

Edited by dblue, 22 October 2007 - 13:51.


#10 keith303

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 14:07

any kind of symmetric multiprocessing system counts.
for the OS and applications there is no difference between a dualcore or two seperate single cores on a dual-cpu motherboard.

dblue, best example is the tune lerchiosi linked above.
just load it several times in sequence. usually the first three or even five times i can load it correctly until it finally crashes with the above error.
i'd at least load it 10 times until being halfway sure that the error doesn't occur with your configuration.

#11 dblue

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 16:36

any kind of symmetric multiprocessing system counts. for the OS and applications there is no difference between a dualcore or two seperate single cores on a dual-cpu motherboard.

Yep, that's what I figured, I just thought I would ask to be absolutely clear.

Anyway, it took about 30 reloads of lerchiosi's song, but the error did eventually appear and Renoise crashed. Then right after that I loaded Renoise and started a new song, then loaded Bass Station and it crashed immediately. Finally I tried testing Bass Station and V-Station separately by making a song which only contained each of the VSTi's, then I constantly reloaded each song. Each of them crashed after a few tries, so it certainly appears there is something going on here.

I really don't remember experiencing these crashes at any time in the past, but to be totally honest I have never done any kind of stress testing with them, so it's -possible- that I simply never encountered the random crash, who knows.

I'll have to go and play around in Renoise 1.5 and 1.8...


Update:

These plugs are causing Renoise 1.5 and Renoise 1.8 to crash quite easily now, so it's definitely not just Renoise 1.9.

.

Edited by dblue, 22 October 2007 - 16:49.


#12 keith303

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 16:58

yep, it's definately not 1.9 - it's a longterm known issue.
actually, it is v1.9 that improved the problem a lot.
there's been a time when i wasn't even able to use those plugs at all if i didn't disable the 2nd (at that time virtual) core. think that must've been with version 1.5 and my hyperthreading system.

#13 lerchiosi

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 17:58

Ok been messing around with this problem now for a little while, turns out i had 1.20 and 1.10 of v-station and bass-station respectively , updated them both to 1.40 and the crashing still happens ! although not quite as much !! 10% (roughly 1 in 10 tries) opposed to 25% in my last post !
so , updating these vstis helps quite a lot but doesnt solve anything. Secondly i disabled my second core in Bios .. low and behold ! no crashes whatsoever!!! i tried loading andagain.xrns about 50 times from 1st load, after long usage and all other combinations..
Multiple cores is definately to blame but i dont really want to have to disable stuff in bios of course !!! i have a e6700 dual-core running on XP and apart from v-station and bass-station I have no other problems with any other VSTI's! :)

Whilst im here if anybody would like to hear my current project i would be glad for anyone to take a listen and feel free to give me constructive criticism !! it also has bass-station in and suffers from the occasional crash !

http://hyperfileshare.com/d/4a92b885

(the light-blue download button is hidden away and u have to press it twice!)

im beginning to get back into writing after a long period away cos of work and mortgages and other boring stuff but it makes me soooo v happy hehehe

Ta!

#14 taktik

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 13:27

Got a response from the Novation devs: They will fix that problem as soon as possible. A VStation and BassStation beta will be available on their website then.

I'll nevertheless apply our hackaround for older versions of the VSTs then...

#15 taktik

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 16:48

Now that was fast:

Here are fixed VStation and BassStation and versions (1.5) from Novation:
http://mail.focusrite.com/beta/

Works perfectly for me. Would be great if you could test this as well...

#16 lerchiosi

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 18:28

No crashes here ! thanks for sorting this out !!!!!!!!!! ;)