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Rpg - The Renoise Phrase Generator


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#1 Icarus

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 15:26

Ok,

so after I got inspired by the excellent Track Generator made by Angel Draganov (subset?), I spent the last 24 hours or so making my own generator.

I think it is different than the generators I have seen, since it uses a different logic to generate the sounds, and require different type of input from the user. The results are quite nice, even if I say so myself. :)

I call it RPG - the Renoise Phrase Generator.

Also, this one works inside Renoise - when it is running, it will add a hotkey to Renoise - Ctrl+Q - and this hotkey, when pressed, will generate a track and paste it wherever the cursor is.

I will not talk too much about the concept yet - this will be in the Readme, once I finish testing it all, but in general, this is a 16-row phrase generator. All the input done in the program, relates to one 16-row phrase. The output of course, can be a series of phrases (usually 4, to generate a 64-row track).

I am not yet ready to release it to the public, still needs to test it and to add presets (you can save each of your settings in a preset, like we are used to from VST instruments) but for now, I have prepared a screenshot and a few loops as a demo.

Posted Image

Go to RPG Homepage - Download, Sound Samples and Video Tutorials

Hope you like it, would love to hear your thoughts.

Edited by Icarus, 28 June 2009 - 18:32.

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#2 Conner_Bw

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 15:51

Hi Icarus, looks cool.

However, it also looks familiar? Have you had a look at the dev forums? More specifically, have you had a look at the (open source / windows) Psymachine which is melody generator for Renoise coded by tenda? See: http://www.renoise.c...showtopic=14838

Psymachine is the original inspiration for subset's Track Generator, so i'm feeling like a moebius loop of inspired tools happening up in here? Haha.

In any case, I like the melodies in your MP3, a lot. I like the screenshot. I'd like an OS X version :)

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#3 s-n-s

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 15:58

that looks really interesting icarus

looking forward to trying it out,when you are ready to release it :yeah:

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#4 Icarus

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 16:15

However, it also looks familiar? Have you had a look at the dev forums? More specifically, have you had a look at the (open source / windows) Psymachine which is melody generator for Renoise coded by tenda? See: http://www.renoise.c...showtopic=14838


I saw psymachine in the past. The interface is too raw, no offense.
It served an important purpose to me - as it inspired subset :)

I am now making "one finger goa" and "one finger bassline" presets for RPG :)
cant wait to release it - i barely slept in the past 2 days...
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#5 Djeroek

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 18:09

looks good, some of the sound demo patterns remind me a little of an old standalone virtual synth called ts 404 ( http://www.dontcrack...oftware/TS-404/ )

tho off course your creation doesn't create the sounds just the patterns :)

#6 Icarus

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 12:12

Here goes nothing...

It is ready for you guys. I hope you find it entertaining and useful.
Go to RPG Homepage

This is version 0.12 - I have tested it to the best of my ability, and on XP only.
There is also a new demo loop MP3 on the page, to give you a taste. Came out nice I think.

Looking forward to your feedbacks - and If you happen to generate nice presets, feel free to send them to me, so they can make it to next releases.

EDIT: Hey! I became Advanced Member! Sweet! and thanks to the person/script that is responsible for this :)

Edited by Icarus, 08 May 2008 - 12:14.

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#7 subset

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 13:40

Hey, Icarus.

I'm enjoyng RPG right now. Making trance tunes like a pro, though I've never really made any trance tunes before. :) I love the way it integrates with Renoise; it's extremely convenient.

The position probability setting is also great. Quite fast to set, while still versatile enough.

Great job! Keep it up.

#8 s-n-s

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 13:48

nice icarus,i will try this out tonight,will post how it turns out :drummer:

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#9 Icarus

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 14:14

Hey subset, thanks.

Yeah, I wanted to keep position probability simple. One of the items on the todo is to add another mode (in addition to normal and wide), so if you have ideas let me know.
you know, I found it quite useful for non-trance phrases - see the Mid East or Wide East presets, with some guitar or other string instrument (thats the last phrase in the sample1.mp3), or try the Dooms Day preset - it is the slow tune at the end of sample 2.

I sometimes miss an extra G - maybe I will add some keys to the last octave (wanna keep it small though)

s-n-s im curious to see what you think.


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#10 Icarus

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 15:24

Some RPG Tips:

Tip 1: Build Gradually
  • start with a clean RPG screen (all reset)
  • select a note you wish to be your primary note - say middle D and raise to almost max
  • select your primary position - say slider 2, raise to about half
  • generate and listen - let Renoise play (without scroll follow) while you are editing parameters in RPG
  • if you are using a long instrument, and want shorter pulses, increase the Off slider.
  • now, start playing with the other position sliders.
  • only when you are happy with the positions, start adding notes. increase the sliders of the newly added notes only slightly, to add only "touchups"
  • when you are happy, try changing the state of the Wide checkbox - provides interesting results.
Tip 2: Build Variations
When you generate the standard 64-row track, in many cases you will be happy only with one or two of the phrases, so.
  • generate a full 4-phrase track.
  • when you are happy with one section of it, bring it to first beat (backspace-it).
  • put your cursor on the next beat (pg dn once to row 16) and repeat the process.
  • you may want to change the RPG settings a little, for an extra twist (e.g. add another note, or increase octave)
Tip 3: Use with Arpeggiated Instruments

Edited by Icarus, 08 May 2008 - 18:18.



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#11 pilot7

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 20:21

:dribble: love gizmo's like this, you made it very user friendly ! , thx

(now if only i knew what notes go well together :D )

#12 AVB

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 23:25

this sounds awesome! I'm trying it asap. Thx!

#13 Djeroek

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 23:51

dope app for sure, just played around with it for a few minutes. Probably should read the text file that comes with it, but the ctrl+q (or pressing generate) doesn't automatically paste in my Renoise...ctrl+v in Renoise does paste in the generated data, maybe I'm doing something wrong?

edit: changed the g for q , duh..

Edited by jonas the plugexpert, 09 May 2008 - 00:12.


#14 Icarus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 00:10

dope app for sure, just played around with it for a few minutes. Probably should read the text file that comes with it, but the ctrl+g (or pressing generate) doesn't automatically paste in my Renoise...ctrl+v in Renoise does paste in the generated data, maybe I'm doing something wrong?


Thanks guys, I am working on a nicer version - with much nicer sliders, and an extra few keys on the keyboard - should be ready in a few hours.
The shortcut is Ctrl-Q and not Ctrl-G. I picked a key which was available in the default Renoise keyboard configuration, and was close to the left so you can generate repeatidly without getting tired. :)
At first, it was Ctrl+Shift (thats how lazy I am), but then I noticed I cannot copy tracks anymore.

The thing is this - when you press Ctrl-Q, you may notice I am focusing the RPG gui for a split second, this is where I generate, and then focusing Renoise again to paste.
The focusing of the RPG window is not necessary at all by my code, but it seems that Renoise has control over the clipboard that goes beyond the OS API. So, in other words, when Renoise is in focus, it has exclusive control over the clipboard and I cannot "inject" my data to it, unless I steal focus.

If any Renoise dev expert is here - would you please confirm or deny? :)


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#15 Djeroek

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 00:20

Icarus, if you're ever bored, this whole probability thing could be linked to placement of events other then note and velocity data.....

meaning-> pattern commands & values (like some kind of glitch machine :-) )

For real, basically the same thing you have now, but linked for instance to bpm/speedcommands: F0XX , would be an ideal groove manipulator.

#16 Icarus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 00:39

Icarus, if you're ever bored, this whole probability thing could be linked to placement of events other then note and velocity data.....


Lets see how this one turns out and if people like it. I have devil-red eyes from sleep deprivation like you wouldnt believe.
Say - is that Ctrl-Q working for you?

EDIT: Oh - I noticed you edited your post - so it was just a typo? Wondering why its not working for you.
The Generate button does not intend to paste in Renoise, but I will add it also - in next version, pressing Generate will do the same as Ctrl-Q.
Also - could you please check you Renoise keyboard shortcuts, to see if you are not already taking Ctrl-Q? (in the keyboard shortcuts window, try to assign Ctrl-Q and it will tell you if there are conflicts - but I am sure you know that and I am probably insulting you for thinking you dont... :))

Edited by Icarus, 09 May 2008 - 00:42.



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#17 Djeroek

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 00:51

Say - is that Ctrl-Q working for you?

EDIT: Oh - I noticed you edited your post - so it was just a typo? Wondering why its not working for you.
The Generate button does not intend to paste in Renoise, but I will add it also - in next version, pressing Generate will do the same as Ctrl-Q.
Also - could you please check you Renoise keyboard shortcuts, to see if you are not already taking Ctrl-Q? (in the keyboard shortcuts window, try to assign Ctrl-Q and it will tell you if there are conflicts - but I am sure you know that and I am probably insulting you for thinking you dont... :))


Hey, yes it works! At first it looked like it wasn't working, because clicking ctrl+Q once doesn't do anything. If I keep it pressed a little longer though (like 2-3 times flashing of renoise gui) the data does change! Maybe this is because of my edit->preferences->keys settings, regarding keyboard repeat rate? (set on 20)

#18 Icarus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 01:02

Maybe this is because of my edit->preferences->keys settings, regarding keyboard repeat rate? (set on 20)


Perhaps. Will check.


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#19 Icarus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 02:37

Ok,

Version 0.14 is up - screenshot updated at the first post here.
A few of the important changes (more revision history at the end of the readme)
  • Changed sliders to something more comfortable
  • Mousewheel moves slider by 1 point
  • Right click on sliders will change to 0,25,50,75,100 values
  • A few minor bug fixes.
Jonas - I tried with 05 and 20 key rate, and it works ok here. But, just in case I have changed a small thing here that may make a difference. Before sending Ctrl-V, I am verifying that Renoise is active. Before that, I just asked to activate it, and sent Ctrl-V. So, maybe this will perform a little better for you.


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#20 AVB

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 03:34

OMG! Instant inspiration. Sweet! thanks man!

Edited by AVB, 09 May 2008 - 03:35.


#21 AVB

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 03:58

Icarus, dude! this app is AWESOME! I'd throw out there that this beauty might catch up as Dblue's Glitch did.

keep up the good work.

Edited by AVB, 09 May 2008 - 04:30.


#22 a2n3d7y

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 07:14

Thanks!

#23 Icarus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 09:46

Glad you like it. :)


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#24 Transcender

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 09:47

Icarus, really great job! Renoise needs more 3rd party tools. :drummer:

Here's some feedback:

GUI
I like the detail that if you right-click on the bars, they get filled in steps of 25% (or 1/4); this level of design is really pro. Being able to save your generated phrases to disc is also quite nice.


KEYBOARD
Pressing Ctrl+Q works as intended on my computer (I'm using a Swedish keyboard layout). The data gets pasted at the current cursor location in the track. No problems whatsoever.

One suggestion here to polish it further: when the user presses Ctrl+Q, maybe RPG could automatically first call the "Home" key before pasting the data (i.e. so that Renoise places the cursor at the first row of the track before the Ctrl+V of a new 64-row phrase)? Preferably this option would be enabled/toggled in a checkbox in RPG, as some users might actually prefer to paste at the cursor position of their own choice.


OVERALL
RPG as a concept matches a demand that I know many Renoise composers will find useful, especially when you don't have to leave Renoise itself in order to use it (yeah, I love that pressing Ctrl+Q and new phrases gets generated and inserted every time -- it feels like it's a new and very welcome feature of Renoise itself!).

This surely got me thinking... there's a lot of potential here.

It would be so cool if you'd consider publishing the AutoHotKey source code under GNU or something when you think the product is finished (since you've now password protected it from exe2ahk decompilation). Of course I have the fullest respect if you don't want to do this, but it would be quite inspiring to take a peak at the code -- and thus learning from it (--> new scripts see the light sooner instead of later).

I have previously used AutoHotKey for creating some custom Renoise macros, but now I realize that I have never really explored the full range of what it's capable of, just scratching the surface. (In fact, reading that RPG was coded in AutoHotKey came as a surprise to me -- my reaction was something like "Ehh.. What?! Is it possible to do such applications in *AutoHotKey*??").


MORE FEATURE SUGGESTIONS...
First I'll suggest the same thing as I did to subset (Angel Draganov) when he published his Renoise Track Generator: the possibility to paste INTO RPG from Renoise instead of manually setting the notes, velocities, etc (i.e. the functions behind the "Analyze" button in his script).

Second, I'll suggest that you consider including the Fx command (note-cut effect) as a parameter. This can really spice up a phrase.
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#25 Icarus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 10:50

Hey Transcender,

Good to see you are walking among us :)

Thanks for the very kind and detailed review.
I have read it carefully, and added some stuff to the todo list.

maybe RPG could automatically first call the "Home" key before pasting the data

The "not pasting at home" is of course by design. This is how I can keep phrases I like, and generate new ones at the next pgdn location. But I may add it as a checkbox. The thing is, I want to keep the GUI small and simple.


It would be so cool if you'd consider publishing the AutoHotKey source code

The code is quite ugly, but doing the job. I may release it a little later, once I am satisfied with the result.

Is it possible to do such applications in *AutoHotKey*??").

Not only possible, but some things are probably done much faster than if you would do it in any other language.

the possibility to paste INTO RPG from Renoise instead of manually setting the notes, velocities, etc (i.e. the functions behind the "Analyze" button in his script).

Yeah, I saw your suggestion there, and saw the implementation before I started coding.
The thing is, that if you know what you want (i.e. you already have a track) than you know what you want. But I added to the todo, to see if it can be implemented seamlessly and nicely. One interesting thing with this, is that I can simply add a checkbox that will analyze the clipboard whenever you generate. Since RPG copies to the clipboard, it will probably create interesting results, as it will "evolve". Renoise is bullying the OS resources a little (i.e. exclusive clipboard control) so I hope I can do it.

Second, I'll suggest that you consider including the Fx command (note-cut effect) as a parameter. This can really spice up a phrase.

I have played with Fx at the volume colume a little and FF00 at the effects column, and did not fully understand how it is working in regards to effects and in regards to VST. Sometimes it is like Off, sometimes it creates clicks and pops.
I know you have Nexus, so I suggest the following:
Choose any Nexus instrument, generate an RPG phrase, place your Fx commands manually for demonstration of what is your desired result, and post the track (XML) here with the name of the Nexus program. So that I can see how it is expected to work.

If you feel like it of course.


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