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Humanizing Vol/pan/delay Columns Separately


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#1 ashy!mpala

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 11:47

ATM if I want to humanize one of the vol/pan/delay columns, I should open the 'advanced edit' pane and uncheck other columns in 'content mask', then humanize the desired note column in pattern. I don't know any better workflow.

I suggest that 'column humanization' (ctrl+shift+H by default) could affect just the column cursor is on. Currently it humanizes all the 3 vol/pan/delay columns if the 'content mask' is not modified and cursor is anywhere on the note/vol/pan/delay column.

e.g. Place cursor on panning column, press ctrl+shift+H => only the panning column is humanized.
Very short and useful, no?

Same workflow can be used for interpolations, ... of vol/pan/delay columns for much more time-saving modifications.

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#2 SuperNova

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 12:18

I’m with you, and maybe we need both.
Humanize only one column by shortcut and humanize every column (checked) by "advanced edit" panel
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#3 vadarfone

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:11

Just figured out how to actually use the Humanize function! Haha. Never even realised it was there!

So, now I know what you are talking about, I am with you, although as it is in the AE already, it is not a huge pain to mask stuff.

But yeah, it would be a good feature!
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#4 Kameleontti

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 16:20

Hm, I would much like those columns separated altogether. So I could mark just a column I want and do with it the way I want.

Then for easier navigation make inst/vol/pan/delay/efxnum/efxval columns behave so that when cursor is on them the first number entered goes to y in xy and second pushes y to x and becomes y. This way pressing to left/right would move directly to next column (as described in shortcut prefs) and I wouldn't have to hit it million times.

Entering numerical values could actually be sped up with it. Then we could have pre-configur(ed/able) value levels for entry behind f.ex. ctrl+numpad-number for super fast entering.

Or then make one shortcut more for jumping between note columns. Current navigation is pain in the arse with keyboard.

And mark whole column shortcut please. :)

Sorry, this went a bit offtopic, but gotta think of all of the aspects.

#5 Kameleontti

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 21:00

ATM if I want to humanize one of the vol/pan/delay columns, I should open the 'advanced edit' pane and uncheck other columns in 'content mask', then humanize the desired note column in pattern. --

btw. did you know that right-clicking affects those checkboxes as it affects tracks scopes - everything but clicked one is unchecked. You don't have to work through all those boxes to select but a few of them.

#6 vV

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 21:18

ATM if I want to humanize one of the vol/pan/delay columns, I should open the 'advanced edit' pane and uncheck other columns in 'content mask', then humanize the desired note column in pattern. I don't know any better workflow.


Right-click the column that you want to affect, all the rest gets unchecked instantly.
Or just select "Column in pattern" and put your cursor key on it...

Don't understand what all the fuss is about?
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#7 BYTE-Smasher

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 22:12

Somewhat related topic spam! : http://www.renoise.c...o...c=18777&hl=

... that being said, I wholeheartedly agree.
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#8 sauli

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 22:41

Right-click the column that you want to affect, all the rest gets unchecked instantly.
Or just select "Column in pattern" and put your cursor key on it...


Eh, what?

Right-clicking any column gives the rclick menu. I'd really like to see some sort of demonstration of selecting only one column. At least I haven't found a way to choose anything else except effect column separately.

#9 ashy!mpala

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 12:34

btw. did you know that right-clicking affects those checkboxes as it affects tracks scopes - everything but clicked one is unchecked. You don't have to work through all those boxes to select but a few of them.

I don't experience what you said here, unless I do it wrong. When I right-click on each of vol/pan/delay columns the cursor jumps to the corresponding note column and nothing changes in the content mask, and ofcourse the floating menu pops up. This is the same when I put the cursor on each of those columns and right-click. Neither way I can humanize these columns separately.

Would you please explain more if you know any workflow?

EDIT: Ah! I just realized what you and vV described. Yes, right-clicking in 'content mask' unchecks all the other boxes. Helps of course to save some time, but it's not the answer to what I suggested.

Or just select "Column in pattern" and put your cursor key on it...

This doesn't work at all for what I desire. Would you explain more?

Edited by Ashkan Asgary, 02 December 2008 - 12:43.

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#10 vV

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 22:18

I don't experience what you said here, unless I do it wrong. When I right-click on each of vol/pan/delay columns the cursor jumps to the corresponding note column and nothing changes in the content mask, and ofcourse the floating menu pops up. This is the same when I put the cursor on each of those columns and right-click. Neither way I can humanize these columns separately.

Would you please explain more if you know any workflow?

EDIT: Ah! I just realized what you and vV described. Yes, right-clicking in 'content mask' unchecks all the other boxes. Helps of course to save some time, but it's not the answer to what I suggested.

This doesn't work at all for what I desire. Would you explain more?


In the Advanced Edit area ofcourse...

Rightclick any of these checkboxes to instantly solo the specific checkbox and uncheck the rest:
Posted Image

Or just select "Column in Pattern" in this area:
Posted Image
Then all your actions will be applied to the column where your cursor is.
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#11 ashy!mpala

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 18:19

In the Advanced Edit area ofcourse...

Rightclick any of these checkboxes to instantly solo the specific checkbox and uncheck the rest:
Posted Image

Understood and accepted. This was the workflow I suggested myself in the first post.

Or just select "Column in Pattern" in this area:
Posted Image
Then all your actions will be applied to the column where your cursor is.

This doesn't work for vol/pan/delay columns separately. Check yourself: Select 'Column in Pattern', move the cursor on any of vol/pan/delay columns, humanize => all three columns are humanized if you haven't unchecked them in the 'content mask'.

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#12 vV

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 22:06

This doesn't work for vol/pan/delay columns separately. Check yourself: Select 'Column in Pattern', move the cursor on any of vol/pan/delay columns, humanize => all three columns are humanized if you haven't unchecked them in the 'content mask'.

Hmmz.. let's see what Taktik has to report about this...
A column is a column and this behavior for me is a bug...
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#13 ashy!mpala

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 23:22

Hmmz.. let's see what Taktik has to report about this...
A column is a column and this behavior for me is a bug...

For me too. The behavior of 'column humanizing' (ctrl+shft+H) is also a bug for me. It also should affect each column separately. This is the main reason why I made this topic.

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#14 taktik

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:45

For me too. The behavior of 'column humanizing' (ctrl+shft+H) is also a bug for me. It also should affect each column separately. This is the main reason why I made this topic.


Column is either a note (voice column) or the selected effect column when there is more than one FX column.
What you expected as "column" would need another entry then, but as the mask settings do the job I don't really see the need for this? Is it really that hard to set the mask as well?

I agree that the advanced edit needs something like a script/preset editor, so you could store/apply the mask setting, action and range with a single click. Thats nothing for 2.0 though, sorry...

#15 ashy!mpala

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 14:07

as the mask settings do the job I don't really see the need for this? Is it really that hard to set the mask as well?

It is really a waste of time IMHO when there is a 'column humanize' feature in the floating menu and you have to modify the content mask each time. Honestly I can't understand the philosophy of all the three vol/pan/delay columns getting humanized together! Especially the panning column humanization makes no sense, unless the user has an intention to do so, which rarely happens.

I use humanize a lot, and it really gives a nice color to my tracks, one of the best features in renoise imo. In the other hand, the same problem exists for other column menu options like interpolation which I also use frequently.

I don't have any complaint about how content mask or other global options work, they are perfect. My stress is about 'column menu', which would be really time saving and reasonable if it affects each column separately:
Posted Image

It even reads 'volume column', 'delay column' and 'panning column' in the menu, but it ignores them as individual columns.

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#16 vV

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 16:41

It is really a waste of time IMHO when there is a 'column humanize' feature in the floating menu and you have to modify the content mask each time. Honestly I can't understand the philosophy of all the three vol/pan/delay columns getting humanized together! Especially the panning column humanization makes no sense, unless the user has an intention to do so, which rarely happens.





I'm afraid i'm more on Ashkan's site here even though the behavior has been programmed to perform like this intentionally:



The expectation of the feature does not meet the actual logic that is attached to it.

What is a good point to have three columns being affected at the same time while they all three do completely different things?



Currently it is not something to fix today, but it might not hurt to give this part a critic look in the upcoming future.
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#17 Pysj

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 16:54

I can understand the frustration.
Like taktik said, the whole AE needs an overhaul.
With a script/hotkey manager in there you can setup everything to your likings and store them on button/keys.
It was discussed a bit during the alpha testing period because of all the new quantize/nudge features would be more effective as well. But there was not enough time. But this will for sure change for one of future versions. It's just too late to change stuff like this now..
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#18 ashy!mpala

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 22:31

So you mean that 'column' sub-menu in the floating menu will always work as it does now? Or its behavior will also change?

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#19 Pysj

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 23:58

So you mean that 'column' sub-menu in the floating menu will always work as it does now? Or its behavior will also change?

What will actually show in the context menu I don't know for sure. But with a preset/script system you can change the settings and even perform the action in the AE with a single keystroke.
So lets say you could rename these presets/actions and this list of presets could be shown in the context menu as well, then everyone would be happy?
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#20 lhaastdaiz

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 02:35

One of the best keyboard shortcuts I know of, and one that I didn't learn for a while after I started, is the selection-shortcuts CTRL-B (begin), CTRL-E (end). You can then select any column you like by pressing ctrl-b at the top and ctrl-e at the bottom.

#21 ashy!mpala

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 15:34

One of the best keyboard shortcuts I know of, and one that I didn't learn for a while after I started, is the selection-shortcuts CTRL-B (begin), CTRL-E (end). You can then select any column you like by pressing ctrl-b at the top and ctrl-e at the bottom.

Thanks for noticing but completely offtopic.

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#22 Gilli

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 17:55

I think it's more a problem of the feature-vs-naming philosophy here. The context-submenu "Column" makes you think that it'll affect single columns, not vol/pan/delay together. But the ability to manipulate them seperately makes more sense. This, in my opinion, is what a user should be able to expect when he opens the context menu. Renaming "column" to "columns" wouldn't do the user any favour while the term would probably fit better its feature.

So lets say you could rename these presets/actions and this list of presets could be shown in the context menu as well, then everyone would be happy?

I think bringing access to AE presets into the context menu still doesn't make Renoise more intuitive for any newbie who'd just want to humanize certain values. I suppose they're used from other DAWs to simply mark, rightclick and humanize the values of their desire. It's hard to teach them "you need to make presets in AE first, then trigger them in the context menu."

However I understand that it's a rather complex issue to be reworked so quickly.

#23 ashy!mpala

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 13:15

I think bringing access to AE presets into the context menu still doesn't make Renoise more intuitive for any newbie who'd just want to humanize certain values. I suppose they're used from other DAWs to simply mark, rightclick and humanize the values of their desire. It's hard to teach them "you need to make presets in AE first, then trigger them in the context menu."

Second that.

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#24 Pysj

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 13:32

Well.. the presets could be factory made and be in the manual.

But anyways. I'm just suggesting things here. As you do.
Newbie or not, what will happen if we get more columns?
It's not unlikely we can get more columns in the future (like dedicated columns). Should we then fill up the context menu with an option for each one? These are the things we need to take into account also.

Why can't the newbie instead just continue using a 'humanize selection' then?
Yes I know the selection is currently limited. But then we should perhaps start looking at that problem first?
Another content mask in AE could be 'cursor', meaning you will modify 'track/column/value etc under cursor). So by moving the cursor to a column you can for instance humanize any type of column using the same hotkey.
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#25 pyc

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 00:59


It is really a waste of time IMHO when there is a 'column humanize' feature in the floating menu and you have to modify the content mask each time. Honestly I can't understand the philosophy of all the three vol/pan/delay columns getting humanized together!

 

So far, the only thing that bothers me too in Renoise.


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