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Brainstorming: Audio Tracks


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#1 Pinwizkid

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 21:55

Sorry if this suggestion has been posted, but it's been on my mind lately. I want to be able to arrange standard audio tracks in Renoise in the same pattern editor as the note columns.

Posted Image

My Mockup shows 2 audio tracks, one mono and one stereo amongst some standard note columns. Audio from these tracks can be slid up and down, selected via click and drag, and edited right in the pattern editor.

I've been using Audacity for this sort of thing, but I much prefer the way Renoise handles Track DSPs. I would renew by registration tomorrow if this were added. Thanks for your time,

Brendan

Edited by Pinwizkid, 06 April 2009 - 19:31.

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#2 vV

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 00:55

Sorry if this suggestion has been posted, but it's been on my mind lately. I want to be able to arrange standard audio tracks in Renoise in the same pattern editor as the note columns.



My Mockup shows 2 audio tracks, one mono and one stereo amongst some standard note columns. Audio from these tracks can be slid up and down, selected via click and drag, and edited right in the pattern editor.

I've been using Audacity for this sort of thing, but I much prefer the way Renoise handles Track DSPs. I would renew by registration tomorrow if this were added. Thanks for you time,

Brendan

You can always try to slave Reaper to Renoise using Midi Yoke, the sync is not super perfect, but at least it picks up the pace in the middle of a wave file without requiring to retrigger the instrument using a 09xx offset command (hoping that the 09xx value would be the correct position).

But you sort of guessed it right:it has been suggested many times before....
And most of us also want this idea, specially for vocals or live recorded instrument sessions, this is ideal.
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#3 Denim

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 01:13

great visualization Pinwizkid!
a thread about this type of solution (vertical audio) was up some months ago i think, and i just gotta say I think it's an awesome way of integrating audio, would make renoise stand out even more from the horisontal sequencers.

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#4 vV

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 01:32

great visualization Pinwizkid!
a thread about this type of solution (vertical audio) was up some months ago i think


It is being suggested for over a few years by now...

http://www.renoise.c...o...=16323&st=0
http://www.renoise.c...?showtopic=8835
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#5 charlylinch

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 01:53

I made a simulair picture a few topics back. (as a joke)
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#6 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 03:40

Can't we just ad a separate waveform window below the pattern sheet ..like in the automation window or something ...With a cursor is to indicate the current position (like in the automation window)
I mean vertical waveforms is like ...dunno .....kinda .....hmmmm..
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#7 Octoe_ed

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 04:09

Sorry if this suggestion has been posted, but it's been on my mind lately. I want to be able to arrange standard audio tracks in Renoise in the same pattern editor as the note columns.

Posted Image

My Mockup shows 2 audio tracks, one mono and one stereo amongst some standard note columns. Audio from these tracks can be slid up and down, selected via click and drag, and edited right in the pattern editor.

I've been using Audacity for this sort of thing, but I much prefer the way Renoise handles Track DSPs. I would renew by registration tomorrow if this were added. Thanks for you time,

Brendan

I think Renoise should "Steal these Ideas" ,,, heheh there wicked ....................... :yeah:
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#8 Justin2380

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 07:27

I've been thinking of the need for proper audio tracks a lot lately as well.
I started working with different artists, recording vocals and it's really a headache
not being able to actually see the wav file in the pattern editor.
Please add this feature guys.
Renoise is a very mature and advanced program which should have all obvious
features covered by now. Audio tracks, record count in, better midi file support and
more groove quantize settings for the hip-hop guys using this program. And even
the much debated piano roll should be here soon with the improved resolution of the
program.
I know someone will say use Reaper, use this use that, but I like to do my sequencing
in one program without having to resort to going back to boring ol' cubase.
Hope the developers take your idea seriously. It would make renoise a more complete
recording solution.
By the way...Renoise rocks.

#9 hseiken

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 07:54

I have a feeling there's other more serious items to take care of in ReNoise before this.

The fact is that other programs handle this aspect of audio production better already. 75 USD gets you eXT2 which you can use as a plug in, get your audio tracks along with transparent timestretching.

Would be nice if ReNoise did everything, but for right now, it's a tracker, not a DAW. It's just hard to remember it's a tracker when it's so damn nice...

#10 keith303

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:47

Can't we just ad a separate waveform window below the pattern sheet ..like in the automation window or something ...With a cursor is to indicate the current position (like in the automation window)
I mean vertical waveforms is like ...dunno .....kinda .....hmmmm..

i agree, it somewhat feels awkward. but i assume it would only take some time of getting used to.
placing the audiotracks horizontally, similar to the automations, is a good idea.. but it would imply some downsides as well.. like only being able to see one audiotrack at once and not having the direct relation between audio- and patterndata (visually).
maybe that would be worth some kind of alternative option in the preferences.

Would be nice if ReNoise did everything, but for right now, it's a tracker, not a DAW.

i don't think that the term "tracker" disqualifies for being classified as a DAW. at least renoise is on its best way to prove that imo.
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#11 It-Alien

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:05

the flexibility of renoise goes against this idea: I mean, what to do when you reuse the same pattern multiple times in the song?

the only solution according to me is that, when you insert an audio track, Renoise should warn you about the existence of patterns which are used more than once, and ask if they should be automatically converted to unique instances, otherwise the audio track cannot be inserted
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#12 vV

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 12:28

the flexibility of renoise goes against this idea: I mean, what to do when you reuse the same pattern multiple times in the song?

the only solution according to me is that, when you insert an audio track, Renoise should warn you about the existence of patterns which are used more than once, and ask if they should be automatically converted to unique instances, otherwise the audio track cannot be inserted

I would leave the actual audio track separated from the pattern, the only thing that remains is the position among the rest of the tracks.
Probably we could then combine the wave-tracks with the long awaited 09xx restructured block and offset markers so you could in theory add 09xx commands inside the wave-track and Renoise then just playing these samples from that offset.
That last thing will probably a hell to implement, but i guess having a fixed wave-track that will be played along only allowing effects to be applied on it, should be doable.
If someone wants a snippet using 09xx, then just use an ordinary track for that.
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#13 Johann

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 13:08

That last thing will probably a hell to implement, but i guess having a fixed wave-track that will be played along only allowing effects to be applied on it, should be doable.

I know it might feel half-assed that way... but alone for vocal tracks this would be soooo useful...

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 14:23

+ 5,000,000

#15 Twinbee

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 17:40

It's a great idea, and what makes it even better is you can see the volume of each bit of the tune in a track at a glance (which obviously going to the mixer doesn't give).

Eventually, we can have the automation areas also going vertical alongside each track, and next to each note. It would be tracker bliss.

Naturally it would be good to have the ability to hide/show various columns however. Renoise can't as yet give the option to automatically hide note columns when no notes appear in them for example.

We'll also need good super-wide screens for all this ;) I may get that 32" LCD...

Edited by Twinbee, 04 April 2009 - 17:42.


#16 B-complex

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 20:14

it's not so bad i believe some mixing software programs had similar visualisation but might be wrong, anyway it is only matter of taste imo - visually if you could just extend size of such track like you do with regular track when you are adding columns you could adjust the visualisation more to your liking - if we would introduce this kind of new concept, maybe there could be a dropbox for each track where you could pick what you see - pattern data - the same stuff you see now , audio track - new idea - but what i would find pretty cool would be automation treated in similar way, when you could draw lines for it directly in your track and when you would be done, you would just change it back to regular "pattern data"

#17 Denim

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 22:48

i think the obvious choice of wave-display is VERTICAL
pattern rolls vertically, so why shouldn't audio tracks do?

imagine how easy it would be to nudge an audio-track up/down to fit the timing, because then you can actually SEE the peaks and compare them to the regular notes inserted in the pattern.

and most of all, this would allow us to view not only ONE, but all audiotracks, just like in Pinwizkid's image.

and, for what it's worth - vertical audio tracks would look damn cool if you ask me!!
Why put child in the back seat, when you can have a hot smokin chick in the front?

Vote vertical! :rolleyes:
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#18 Hawaiian drummer

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 01:47

YAY! I have been thinking about this for months!!!! VOTE VOTE VOTE
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#19 0l3ks4

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:34

btw vertical waves have already been implemented elsewhere, and they are totally ok to work with.
no need to get used to them, - you just use them!

I only add, that audio tracks absolutely must not be locked to single patterns (because of what ITAlien said), - they must be laid down in the sequence.

This picture is not the best-looking example, but at least it's a piece of working thing and not a graphic mashup.
i'm sure Renoise will incorporate this much better and finally become the awesomest audio sequencer!
Posted Image

Edited by 0l3ks4, 06 April 2009 - 08:58.

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#20 dfast

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 10:51

If the audiotrack would be implemented, I hope it would have the same features as the sample editor does, together with a few additions:

- Selecting an area of the sample and drag 'n dropping it within the sample.
- Zoom, for whole patterns or just the audiotrack. This would be quite mandatory, otherwise the functionality of the audiotrack wouldn't be taken to the max.

Anyways, it's a great idea but how to implement it is above my knowledge. But in case the dev team can manage this, it'll be the greatest update ever.
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#21 BotB

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 10:58

Anyways, it's a great idea but how to implement it is above my knowledge. But in case the dev team can manage this, it'll be the greatest update ever.


YES
IT
WOULD!

It would make Renoise rise above the 'tracker' status!
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#22 SuperNova

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:58

0l3ks4 visualization its perfect for me... +100
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#23 Thomas Knark

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:50

I´ve been dreaming of this for a long long time. I had the exact same pictures in my head of the vertical audiotracks, it just seems so obvious and logical.

+1
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#24 kickofighto

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 14:48

I've been wanting this too.
Another way it could be implemented is if you ctrl click, or something, on a note the waveform of that note appears in scale to the pattern, maybe even as an overlay for as long as you hold down. it would be really good to see where exactly an individual note will end; prob most useful for reversed perc hits or samples that stop suddenly.

#25 Pinwizkid

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:30

To add a few more thoughts:

Renoise is my DAW, I don't look at it as a tracker anymore because tracking has become one small component of Renoise.

Renoise already does what I'm suggesting, it just doesn't display it like I visualized. Audio tracks can have multiple columns just like tracker tracks and really only need to retain the start point of the samples being played (which it already does now via a note). If a pattern with audio is reused, the audio track would function just like how a tracker would: when the start point of the audio is triggered again, it will either cutoff the audio that is already playing, will continue to play underneath the new audio, or it will will trigger a note off (this would use the same setting in the sample instrument properties window).

Obviously if a sample is longer than the pattern, the remaining audio will automatically trail into the following pattern (unless there is no pattern there, in which Renoise could warn you that there is overset audio on pattern X, similar to how graphic design software will warn you of overset type on a page layout).

Once the visualization is established, the fun part of being able to edit the audio with the full functionality of the sample editor will come into play right from the pattern editor (clicking the instrument editor tab could bring up these functions in the bottom tray like the automation editor).

This would make live recordings so much easier to integrate into our music and is what I believe is really holding Renoise back from being a complete package right now. We can keep using excuses that other software does it better, or there's a complicated plugin trick to solve this, but it will never be truly solved until it is put in, pure and simple.

Oh, and one more thing - Don't be prejudice against vertical waveforms, that's audio discrimination ;)

Brendan
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