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Improve Pattern Editor Selections


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#1 dblue

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 15:42

In reference to the discussion going on in this other thread and the points that syphus is trying to get across, I thought it might be better to continue things in a new thread here, and to hopefully get those points across in a more concise and immediately understandable way, via the magic of screen shots! :D

Currently, it is possible to make selections in the pattern editor which look like this:
Posted Image

It would be incredibly super-awesome-tastic if we could also make more granular selections like this:
Posted Image


I can already imagine some of you reaching for the reply button to mention advanced edit, so I'll just stop you there. Yes, both myself and syphus obviously realise that anything you might want to do with the instrument number, or volume column, or panning column, or delay column, etc., can already be achieved with the advanced edit functions. Let me just say that I think advanced edit is awesome, and I personally use it every single time I work with Renoise, but it's totally beside the point here: the simple act of selecting data in the pattern editor is not an advanced function.

No matter how each person likes to work, whether they prefer to use keyboard or mouse, whether they prefer to use advanced edit or not, etc., it's irrelevant. This is a basic usability issue with the pattern editor itself. We can currently manually edit each component part of a note (note, instrument number, volume, panning, delay) and each component part of an pattern command (effect number, effect value), but even though each of those component values is clearly represented by its own distinct column in the pattern editor, we cannot actually select that data directly. We can only make a more broad selection of the entire note, or the entire pattern command, and unfortunately this can feel very illogical and unintuitive when you find yourself needing to edit those values on a regular basis.

If we look at this problem objectively, rather than trying to impose certain ways of working onto each other, can we just agree that the pattern editor is obviously one of the most powerful and important parts of Renoise itself, and that improving the selection functionality would only be a good thing?
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#2 Guest_Bantai_*

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 15:56

I for one agree: adv. edit workflow is too slow.

#3 maes

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 16:18

plus'd

edit: what about a toggleable behaviour so that the user can actually type in "a"+ "#" + "5" instead of "playing the note" which i have seen discussed on these boards before? it's kind of related i'd say :>

be warned, a bit OT below! (=

i must say that i had quite some trouble adjusting to the whole selection biz when i picked up renoise some time ago. it's not that often that i need do such advanced selections as above but i do use ctrl + b -> ctrl + e -> ctrl + c/x -> ctrl + v a lot which is kind of clumsy for manipulating single notes. (maybe i'm missing some obvious way of doing this?)

Edited by maes, 06 May 2010 - 17:04.


#4 Conner_Bw

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 16:20

+1

I agree.

EDIT: Of course I would still like to retain the ability to select all columns, click drag style, like it is now. The option to have more columns to select from would be the big improvement here.

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#5 Djeroek

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 16:26

So double mouse clicking in a sub section of a note event would select the complete sub column then? There should be an alternative 'tab' function as well, that'd tab between sub sections instead of complete tracks.
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#6 Knetter

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 19:38

dblue, couldn't agree more!

I guess, I have posted about this as well: http://www.renoise.c...ndpost&p=192612

What do you think?
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#7 annide

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 21:52

+10
Something small, and desirable.
untz kntz untz k-ntz, chkzhk!

#8 loimi

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 22:10

+1, it's bits like this that make for better workflows

#9 esaruoho

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 14:03

This would be absolutely excellent. Thank you for the great illustrations, dBlue

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More API functions, please! ;)

#10 B-complex

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 14:02

actually i just got an idea !
with this kind of selection it would be awesome if you could change values of selected "batch" with alt+f1 alt+f2 commands
for example F1 being -1 and F2 being +1 as it is with transposing notes, then you could change parameters of lots of effects
very quickly and accurately , i think i'd love that :)
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#11 esaruoho

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 14:14

+1 all around :)

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More API functions, please! ;)

#12 Tom de Rooy

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 15:34

A +1 from me also.

#13 Sam

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 16:20

actually i just got an idea !
with this kind of selection it would be awesome if you could change values of selected "batch" with alt+f1 alt+f2 commands
for example F1 being -1 and F2 being +1 as it is with transposing notes, then you could change parameters of lots of effects
very quickly and accurately , i think i'd love that :)


What B-complex said and a +1 for the whole idea. Actually, it's a bit weird that something so simple hasn't already been implemented. A case of too obvious to notice, I suppose. I certainly didn't think of it before I saw this topic.
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#14 Djeroek

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 16:54

+1 revisited

#15 KanetonKiller

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 17:12

+1, very useful feature !

#16 simonwellander

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:27

Great idea!! :yeah: :yeah:

#17 Mane

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 00:43

+1001

It seems so obvious to me... as I'm still a newb trying to find a workflow, I just keep reaching for shift + arrow or try and double tapping the columns before I realise I need to use the advanced edit...

#18 noby

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 07:05

I think I speak for all of us when I say...

*krhm*

Yes, +1.

#19 mightybomb

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 20:37

yes+1
yes+1
yes+1
yes+1
yes+1
yes+1
yes+1
yes+1


it would already help if f.e. something like shift+ctrl+arrow would be implemented as a more percise way of selecting than shift+arrow

TRACKING ON THE ATARI ST AND RENOISE SINCE???


#20 esaruoho

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 20:38

alt-d behaviour from IT2/Schism would be a treat in Renoise!

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More API functions, please! ;)

#21 esaruoho

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 19:27

alt-d behaviour from IT2/Schism would be a treat in Renoise!


2.8 API updates made the scripting of ALT-D / ALT-L / ALT-U possible. which is amazing :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06R1n7zdIw
Spoiler

Edited by esaruoho, 24 December 2011 - 18:42.

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More API functions, please! ;)

#22 loimi

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 22:45

It doesn't work for me on OSX and beta3..

#23 esaruoho

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 22:54

It doesn't work for me on OSX and beta3..


if you're speaking of those shortcuts, they're scripted.
they're not native in renoise.

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More API functions, please! ;)

#24 loimi

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 18:41

Ah well that explains it.

#25 shadowpsyc

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 13:36

+1

Advanced edit is useful and all but this would make the pattern editor much more fluid to work with