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We Need A Native Dry/Wet Device


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#1 charlylinch

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 23:50

I saw in another topic that there were some +1's for my idea for a native dry/wet device.
A few native plugins doesn't have this button (filters, screamer and some vsts )
And if you still want the dry signal you have to make a workaround with the send tracks.

So..
One extra Native device with one fader (dry/wet) and a destination drop-down menu like we have in the lfo device.

I assume this is a little "easy-to-make" feature and I know it will save me a lot of time and send tracks.

more people like this idea?

Edit- I changed my examples because those already have a dry/wet control ;)

Edited by charlylinch, 27 June 2010 - 22:31.

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#2 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 00:11

I saw in another topic that there were some +1's for my idea for a native dry/wet device.
A lot of native plugins doesn't have this button (delay, flanger, ring-modulator, phaser)
And if you still want the dry signal you have to make a workaround with the send tracks.

So..
One extra Native device with one fader (dry/wet) and a destination drop-down menu like we have in the lfo device.

I assume this is a little "easy-to-make" feature and I know it will save me a lot of time and send tracks.

more people like this idea?


[deleted]

Get used to your plug ins before you scream for features. That doesn't target you personally. But lots of people are screaming for features atm and don't even know what the plug ins they already have are good for.

And if you still want the dry signal you have to make a workaround with the send tracks.


That's the same for a studio. If a signal is screwed up you have to take care of the original signal. In the studio you have to apply a cable to do your send and safe your signal. And here it's the same. The signal flow with a "dry/wet" device would be the same. You just would safe a send channel. ..and therefore at some point lose the overview and lose the capability of accessing your FX with another signal.

Edited by BitArts, 27 June 2010 - 17:32.


#3 charlylinch

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 00:29

* delay:
has a switch to mute the src. Leaving it on with send set to 0.0 dB means, it's 50%/50% wet/dry.
muting the source is 100% wet.
* chorus:
has a dry/wet slider. 0% = dry only, 100% = wet only
* flanger:
amount=0% -> dry, amount= +/-50% -> 50% dry/wet, amount= +/-100% -> 100% wet
* phaser:
depth=0% -> dry, depth= +/-100% -> 100% wet
* ringmodulator
amplitude=0% -> dry, amplitude=100% -> wet

Get used to your plug ins before you scream for features. That doesn't target you personally. But lots of people are screaming for features atm and don't even know what the plug ins they already have are good for.



Wow I feel pretty stupid now...

Edited by charlylinch, 27 June 2010 - 22:32.


#4 Johann

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 00:43

no to you both, and instead dry/wet natively for ALL fx and ALL VST :P

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hay guises! action/reaction. I'm not into leaving or avoiding places, I ban 'em by making sure I get banned.. loadsa noise, little signal.. basically anything else makes more sense to spend energy on. thanks for the app, but from here on out we simply don't have any use for each other period. oh, and of course big shoutouts to bit-arts and kaneel and anyone else I forgot :D :D

#5 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 00:49

Wow I feel pretty stupid now...

Can someone delete this topic?


That's got nothing to do with any stupidity. I guess there are lots of people out there who lack the knowledge of things like these. :)

no to you both, and instead dry/wet natively for ALL fx and ALL VST :P


What "no"? I didn't make a suggestion, I stated facts.

The better usability of an "amount"-slider when it's called "dry/wet" may forever be your very own secret. :rolleyes:

Edit: sometimes things appear really kinda childish here... :unsure:

Edited by BitArts, 27 June 2010 - 00:52.


#6 Johann

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 01:59

no to "Get used to your plug ins before you scream for features." because while this may hold true for the internal fx, it does NOT hold true for the wide arrange of free and weird (and crappy) VST fx out there.

no to a dedicated device for something any effect could have: wet/dry... with the option to send each to send tracks while you're at it, which would make the send device unnecessary in many cases.

"no" as in "-1".

The better usability of an "amount"-slider when it's called "dry/wet" may forever be your very own secret. :rolleyes:


what is that "amount" you're referring to? send amount, right? so there's your answer: no sends required.

I was refering to this: http://www.renoise.c...showtopic=21295

Edited by Johann, 27 June 2010 - 02:00.

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hay guises! action/reaction. I'm not into leaving or avoiding places, I ban 'em by making sure I get banned.. loadsa noise, little signal.. basically anything else makes more sense to spend energy on. thanks for the app, but from here on out we simply don't have any use for each other period. oh, and of course big shoutouts to bit-arts and kaneel and anyone else I forgot :D :D

#7 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:11

no to "Get used to your plug ins before you scream for features." because while this may hold true for the internal fx, it does NOT hold true for the wide arrange of free and weird (and crappy) VST fx out there.


Then you'd better scream at these and not at Renoise. ;)


what is that "amount" you're referring to? send amount, right?


As we are talking about dry/wet, I'm not talking about send amount. No. "No" as in "no". :)

#8 subskan

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:24

Wow I feel pretty stupid now...

Can someone delete this topic?

not at all!! it's not a stupid idea... i really think it can be usefull especially if you want a handier way FROM TIME TO TIME! (with native screamer or filter, or vst's like waldorf d-pole, blood overdrive, camelcrusher, voxengo boogex etc for example!)
and you don't want to spend hours creating sends and hydra devices then route, route and route again, to do the same result than just move a simple "dry/wet"" signal on the same track

renoise is the ultimate beast! but suggests don't kill anybody! (even if you do mistakes in the topic explanation!, just edit it and say, filters, screamer and some vsts ;))

i think bitarts often confuse:
"requests/suggestions" with "dissatisfaction/lack of knowledge"
this is a good example


peace!

Edited by subskan, 27 June 2010 - 11:46.


#9 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:41

i think bitarts often confuse:
"requests/suggestions" with "dissatisfaction/lack of knowledge" :)
this is a good example

peace!


*g* Are you sure it's me confusing these? :D

#10 subskan

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:12

*g* Are you sure it's me confusing these? :D

who knows :)

If you ever find a serious, professionl producer arranging his drums within one track - without being in need for it - let me know. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGK-EzEa45U

i don't know what "professioanl" means .. but i see 3 tracks here... no? :lol:

re-peace! :lol:

#11 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:18

i don't know what "professioanl" means .. but i see 3 tracks here... no? :lol:

re-peace! :lol:


So what? It seems very obvious he doesn't need to split them. Maybe even you can think that far. :facepalm: Get off my nerves, dude. :)

Btw... if you open your eyes you might actually see 8 tracks... :)

Edited by BitArts, 27 June 2010 - 12:24.


#12 subskan

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:27

So what? It seems very obvious he doesn't need to split them. Maybe even you can think that far. :facepalm: Get off my nerves, dude. :)

Btw... if you open your eyes you might actually see 8 tracks... :)

rythm tracks my dear.. my eyes are opened

#13 Johann

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:27

Then you'd better scream at these and not at Renoise. ;)

who's screaming? ( ;) )

As we are talking about dry/wet, I'm not talking about send amount. No. "No" as in "no". :)


then what is "The better usability of an "amount"-slider when it's called "dry/wet" may forever be your very own secret." supposed to mean? condescending smileys don't make up for substance.

Edited by Johann, 27 June 2010 - 12:27.

music / photos / renoise scripts


hay guises! action/reaction. I'm not into leaving or avoiding places, I ban 'em by making sure I get banned.. loadsa noise, little signal.. basically anything else makes more sense to spend energy on. thanks for the app, but from here on out we simply don't have any use for each other period. oh, and of course big shoutouts to bit-arts and kaneel and anyone else I forgot :D :D

#14 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:41

who's screaming? ( ;) )

then what is "The better usability of an "amount"-slider when it's called "dry/wet" may forever be your very own secret." supposed to mean? condescending smileys don't make up for substance.


We were talking about dry/wet slider on native chorus, phaser etc. It's definetely all there. We weren't talking about "sends" in any way. The send amount is the amplitude of your send signal. It's that simple. And for the VST a dry/wet plug in is just nonsense, because this would require a standard dry/wet interface and Renoise to know how to turn on/off and/or adjust any FX amount of each VST. How'd you suppose this to be realized?

#15 Johann

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 13:07

We were talking about dry/wet slider on native chorus, phaser etc.

*I* was talking about general (read: standardized... code once, use everywhere) dry/wet on ALL fx, and you replied to *me*. so your reply kinda kinda was supposed to make sense in that context. instead it just has a rolleyes smiley.

And for the VST a dry/wet plug in is just nonsense, because this would require a standard dry/wet interface and Renoise to know how to turn on/off and/or adjust any FX amount of each VST. How'd you suppose this to be realized?


how do you supposed send tracks are realized? same thing engine wise, just hidden and unused until, uhh, used.

music / photos / renoise scripts


hay guises! action/reaction. I'm not into leaving or avoiding places, I ban 'em by making sure I get banned.. loadsa noise, little signal.. basically anything else makes more sense to spend energy on. thanks for the app, but from here on out we simply don't have any use for each other period. oh, and of course big shoutouts to bit-arts and kaneel and anyone else I forgot :D :D

#16 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:01

rythm tracks my dear.. my eyes are opened


And I can't see the sense of what you are trying to say or do, except of shooting your own knee. I already stopped replying on your "multi-channel"-thread because I got tired of it. And now you carry it over to other threads. Are you okay?

#17 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:11

*I* was talking about general (read: standardized... code once, use everywhere) dry/wet on ALL fx, and you replied to *me*. so your reply kinda kinda was supposed to make sense in that context. instead it just has a rolleyes smiley.



how do you supposed send tracks are realized? same thing engine wise, just hidden and unused until, uhh, used.


Send-tracks are routed audio streams, that run into the receiver's open door. And they've got absolutely nothing to do with any dry/wet issue. How they are handled by the receiver is the receivers part and not part of the send. Dry/wet is on the "Return"-stream, the RECEIVERS OUTPUT and not the send. Don't get me wrong. I swear this is not meant as an offense, but obviously you lack some basic knowledge to understand things. So, please don't blame me for the fact you don't understand my replies.

#18 subskan

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 15:41

no to you both, and instead dry/wet natively for ALL fx and ALL VST :P

yep, i missed this answer!
for sure fl studio allready own this feature but beside each vst/native effect... like some kind of "attached knob" each time you open a new effect device...

so maybe this way should be more doable than the last suggestions?...

Edited by subskan, 27 June 2010 - 15:42.


#19 dfast

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 17:31

* flanger:
amount=0% -> dry, amount= +/-50% -> 50% dry/wet, amount= +/-100% -> 100% wet


Slight note here though: this does indeed reduce the amount of flanger, but it only has the kind of a wanted impact on Rate and Amplitude parameters.

Or should I feel stupid as well? :)

Edited by dfast, 27 June 2010 - 17:32.

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 17:39

Slight note here though: this does indeed reduce the amount of flanger, but it only has the kind of a wanted impact on Rate and Amplitude parameters.


And what's the difference? A signal with 100% amount flanging is a 100% wet signal.

Or should I feel stupid as well?


Whom I called stupid? ^^ I'm really fed up with this now. Freaks... C ya

#21 dfast

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 17:43

Erm. I wasn't referring to you saying anyone was stupid but what charlylinch said earlier about himself feeling stupid... No harm intended whatsoever! :) And yes indeed the sound isn't really flanging in that sense when you turn down the amount, but personally that's one of the plugins I'd love a complete wet/dry parameter, mostly for habit reasons though.



...so I'm a freak?

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#22 Johann

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:41

Send-tracks are routed audio streams, that run into the receiver's open door. And they've got absolutely nothing to do with any dry/wet issue.


you split the streams (wet/dry) before the (VST) effect and mix them both after the (VST) effect. durr. this actually has been discussed before, and considered anything but "nonsense". when I said "how send tracks work" I assumed a bit more imagination on your part.

How they are handled by the receiver is the receivers part and not part of the send. Dry/wet is on the "Return"-stream, the RECEIVERS OUTPUT and not the send. Don't get me wrong. I swear this is not meant as an offense, but obviously you lack some basic knowledge to understand things. So, please don't blame me for the fact you don't understand my replies.


:lol:

I suggest a dry/wet interface for all fx, and you reply with "And for the VST a dry/wet plug in is just nonsense, because this would require a standard dry/wet interface".

There is nothing to understand there. just :lol:

music / photos / renoise scripts


hay guises! action/reaction. I'm not into leaving or avoiding places, I ban 'em by making sure I get banned.. loadsa noise, little signal.. basically anything else makes more sense to spend energy on. thanks for the app, but from here on out we simply don't have any use for each other period. oh, and of course big shoutouts to bit-arts and kaneel and anyone else I forgot :D :D

#23 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:24

you split the streams (wet/dry) before the (VST) effect and mix them both after the (VST) effect. durr. this actually has been discussed before, and considered anything but "nonsense". when I said "how send tracks work" I assumed a bit more imagination on your part.

:lol:


So your way of using sends seems to be the only one. :lol: I can use a send to route dry signals, wet signals, to mix dry of one and wet of another device, I can split frequency bands on a dry send and combine them with other bands of a wet send. I can use sends to double signals, to send a carrier, to send a modulator, to send a trigger and and and... Only some random examples. And nowhere is written a wet signal has to be joined with the origin send again. Which is btw. against the meaning of send effects in general, because they are normally used to separate signals, for example to share an FX device between several send-devices.

While I keep smiling about your limited routing horizon I hope you keep spliting your signal before you've send anything and keep on routing the only way you know.

I suggest a dry/wet interface for all fx, and you reply with "And for the VST a dry/wet plug in is just nonsense, because this would require a standard dry/wet interface". There is nothing to understand there. just :lol:


Yeah. I didn't really expect you would understand this, because you didn't get it after several tries to explain and it was already obvious you've got no clue about VST architecture. And I was right. While you laugh VSTs still have no dry/wet standard-switches. No matter how hard you try. So, how do you suppose Renoise to switch between dry/wet on VSTs? Renoise doesn't know and can't know, how to switch between dry/wet on VSTs. Do you get this? Or is it still too hard?

It's easy to play an idiot, if you're intelligent. The contrary is way harder. ;)


Your pathetic LOL is mine, Mr. Wanna-Be-Expert.

Edited by BitArts, 28 June 2010 - 04:37.


#24 Johann

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:48

So your way of using sends seems to be the only one. :lol: I can use a send to route dry signals, wet signals, to mix dry of one and wet of another device, I can split frequency bands on a dry send and combine them with other bands of a wet send. I can use sends to double signals, to send a carrier, to send a modulator, to send a trigger and and and... Only some random examples.


so? was I debating any of that? it's just combersome when you DONT need these things. the whole idea of a common dry/wet controls on all fx is to give you a easily accessible, automatable thing, when you don't NEED a dedicated send track.

as a bonus you could get rid of wet/dry on those fx that have them, and visualize it in a common way. something near the off/on checkbox... (note that I'm not saying this to you, but the general forum... you seem stuck already)

and I repeat, "something any effect could have: wet/dry... with the option to send each to send tracks while you're at it, which would make the send device unnecessary in many cases." you see, then every effect would have (potentially) an integrated send device. so what are you babbling about me now knowing how to use sends? oh, and I wasn't the one going all expert here.. so lol once again..

music / photos / renoise scripts


hay guises! action/reaction. I'm not into leaving or avoiding places, I ban 'em by making sure I get banned.. loadsa noise, little signal.. basically anything else makes more sense to spend energy on. thanks for the app, but from here on out we simply don't have any use for each other period. oh, and of course big shoutouts to bit-arts and kaneel and anyone else I forgot :D :D

#25 Guest_BitArts_*

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:46

so? was I debating any of that? it's just combersome when you DONT need these things. the whole idea of a common dry/wet controls on all fx is to give you a easily accessible, automatable thing, when you don't NEED a dedicated send track.

as a bonus you could get rid of wet/dry on those fx that have them, and visualize it in a common way. something near the off/on checkbox... (note that I'm not saying this to you, but the general forum... you seem stuck already)

and I repeat, "something any effect could have: wet/dry... with the option to send each to send tracks while you're at it, which would make the send device unnecessary in many cases." you see, then every effect would have (potentially) an integrated send device. so what are you babbling about me now knowing how to use sends? oh, and I wasn't the one going all expert here.. so lol once again..


You ever read your own repeating crap, dude? :lol: Are you totally learn resistant? Useless to talk. I just hope your musically skills are not as bad as your technical. *g* You're on ignore from now on...

Btw. I was refering to send, because you (LOL!) tried to tell me how to route. Bwahaha... good 1. :D

Edited by BitArts, 28 June 2010 - 04:52.