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New Tool (3.0): Grid Pie


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#51 Conner_Bw

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 17:29

Deal? (reaching out hand. :rolleyes:)


Sure thing. Feel free to fork, too. :)

Cheers.

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#52 dr4g0n76

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 13:07

EDIT: Since I didn't use duplex once yet I don't know if this cuts with its concept. Maybe someone else knows?!

Sure thing. Feel free to fork, too. :)

Cheers.


I guess this is what you meant by "second gui"?
Like, a separate dialogue for new optional buttons?


Exactly.

I don't think the coding is really hard to do.
It's just that I don't own any grid controller except the LPD8 and I don't really enjoy coding stuff I don't use. quote]


I think so too.

It would be a lot more fun for me to integrate patches (code).
I appreciate feature suggestions, but you can understand that it gets boring fast to field feature requests that don't benefit me personally, right? :)


Yes as a software system architect I got to know hat. ;-)

Suggestion number one:

option_control.jpg

I just took this from a c#.Net Application and changed it to show a possible prototype...
Final version will be in lua if possible, for sure.

here is the description of the following elements:


1.) Preview:

Don't know yet, maybe this can become what I meant by play at next beat /measurment (otherwise this is done on gridpie by right clicking/middle clicking or something similar)


2.) Predefined Sequences

You wanna define sequences? choose them from there, maybe it consists of pairs like:

1 1, 2 1, 4 5 (vertical and horizontal position, maybe also triplets? then it would be: 1 1 0, 2 2 3 - last one is state: enabled / next beat or measurement - whatever)

3) Swapping(?)

taken from my application maybe this might mean swap actual "sequence" with chosen sequence?! Dunno yet.
4) Match size: also taken from my application, has no meaning yet, maybe someone knows if useful?

5) 6) Loadable prefs/sequences/configurations maybe

-> this could be used to load configurations...
7) maybe shows the configuration there

8) Move / Lock-Unlock / Rotate Sequence

Should be to move the sequence (up /down / left / right, lock/unlock/rotate)
Lock would mean: you can't move outta margin, unlock: you can, rotate what moves out one side, will come in again from the other side (hope that's clear?)
And the textbox is to input the "rotation"

Another Idea would be to randomize the input.

9) Undo / Redo

If I'd like to undo/redo:
All actions have to be saved in memory somewhere...

So if one sequence was:

A.) 1 1, 2 2

then

B.) 2 2, 3 3

and then

C.) 3 3, 4 4

undo once means:

going back to B) again, another one is A) again, redo will go back to B) and so on (known behaviour as in every program)

10/11/12) Apply changes or not.

I guess this is only useful if:

a) u wanna setup what should happen and OK really makes it happen.
B) realtime

But then there is a tickable checkbox mixing like "realtime [x]"

13) Trackbars to do everything imaginable with the actual gridpie playing tracks (maybe rotate/arpeggiate/shuffle/randomize notes)...
14) Same as 13 but goes for the whole pattern.

Connor_BW and others what do you think about that?

So I guess the complete thing is something between... (s. also pictures below...)

- Karma (rearranging notes at the fly)

- Novation Launchpad (what gridpie already does only adding to be able to MOVE the sequence around, actually.)
EDIT: Maybe button colors of gridpie could represent states... not really sure yet.

- Traktor Kontrol (Native instruments)


Posted Image

Edited by dr4g0n76, 20 October 2011 - 14:09.


#53 Conner_Bw

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 15:41

Connor_BW and others what do you think about that?


If you code it, I won't stop you.

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#54 dr4g0n76

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 15:52

If you code it, I won't stop you.


Sure.
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#55 dby

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 12:15

This is THE tool I've been waiting for. The tool that would fully integrate Renoise into my live set. Great work!

I managed to get LED feedback on my Monome using toggles in Pages, and Bidule to remap the MIDI-messages to switch the non active slots off.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Only problem now is that I'm getting a bit of lag when I switch between clips. The total CPU load on my crummy old laptop is pretty high. Deleted some tracks/effect chains and got it down to about 80% tops when switching. Still lag. I will try to shave off a bit more and see if it helps.

Here's a recording of me switching quickly between two identical clips: www.dogblessyourart.com/temp/gridpie_test_lag.mp3

Edited by dby, 21 October 2011 - 12:17.

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#56 dby

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 14:30

Unfortunately it seems my MIDI-feedback hack is causing most of the lag. When I disconnect it, I get almost glitch free switching... only when switching really fast. Maybe it would work fine on a better laptop.

#57 s-n-s

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 15:18

man looking forward to getting my new laptop(hopefully on monday,as my desktop died on me)so cant do any production the next days

this looks like this could be renoises live-mode :drummer:

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#58 dby

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 17:11

There! I reworked the MIDI-feedback in Bidule. Made a less message intensive solution that only sends note off to the pad previously pressed, where the first version sent to all seven in a column every time. Seems to work fine now, no lag.

Posted Image
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#59 dr4g0n76

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:30

This is THE tool I've been waiting for. The tool that would fully integrate Renoise into my live set. Great work!

Do you mean bidule or gridpie expansion suggested by me?
Just don't get it.

Because otherwise this could mean bidule replaces also gridpies functionality completely...



I managed to get LED feedback on my Monome using toggles in Pages, and Bidule to remap the MIDI-messages to switch the non active slots off.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Only problem now is that I'm getting a bit of lag when I switch between clips. The total CPU load on my crummy old laptop is pretty high. Deleted some tracks/effect chains and got it down to about 80% tops when switching. Still lag. I will try to shave off a bit more and see if it helps.

Here's a recording of me switching quickly between two identical clips: www.dogblessyourart.com/temp/gridpie_test_lag.mp3



I will start developing the promised extensions next week.
Already fried fiddling around with a second lua interface in one program.

@Connor_BW:

Did you do another patch for gridpie?
Because I'd like to integrate the expansions into newest version.




Edited by dr4g0n76, 26 October 2011 - 10:42.


#60 dby

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 14:15

@ dr4g0n76: I was talking about the basic Grid Pie function. That is what I've been waiting for. All Bidule provides is LED feedback on my Monome.

#61 dby

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 19:39

I have an idea for Grid Pie. Recording/editing the clips on the fly.

Enable pattern follow, enable rec, select the right track... all possible with simple MIDI-mapping. Now editing a clip that has been copied to the last pattern is possible. What I don't know how to set up is copying the edited clip back to the originally triggered one, preferably when stopping the clip or triggering another one.

And a simple copy function would also be very useful. Pressing a pad to copy content from and another to copy to.

I hope the explanation isn't too confusing.


Edit: I guess this wouldn't work too well with polyrhythmic stuff tho. <_<

Edited by dby, 26 October 2011 - 20:30.


#62 dby

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:02

Looks like I won't be able to use Grid Pie after all... I'm getting lag in the tempo even if I disable LED feedback. Maybe because I only used two tracks when testing. Copying polyrhythmic clips or a few tracks at the same time cause a lot of lag. This is depressing. I really looked forward to use Renoise for both composing and live. :(

#63 Conner_Bw

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 13:10

Is it the monome that is lagging? Or are you saying Grid Pie is too slow in general?

If it's a monome issue, I have no way of helping you at the moment. I don't have a monome. I can't code OSC or Led feedback without one. Maybe wait until Grid Pie makes an appearance as an app in the Duplex framework for better results?

If you think Grid Pie is too slow in general, there's not much I can do about that. It's as fast as I can make it using the current API.

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#64 dby

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 13:33

I don't think it's the Monome. It's just working as a MIDI interface for Grid Pie. I'm optimizing XP right now, so perhaps I can get it to work. Unless my laptop is just too slow to handle all this copy/paste while playing.

#65 dby

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 14:08

I have tried optimizing the system. I have tried removing stuff. It all improves things a little. But still, there's a noticeable increase in CPU usage when the copy/paste is performed. While Grid Pie is a brilliant hack, it seems it's only usable for people with fast enough systems. And I guess that won't improve by adding it to Duplex.

I'll just have to wait a bit longer for my dream of using Renoise for both composing and live arranging... don't really like Ableton, but it seems it's the only program that can do this still. I'm not leaving Renoise just yet, I have a few tricks/compromises I'll try first.

This is a shame, since I was going to write an article and record a video about Grid Pie. Maybe I'll write something short anyway.

Edited by dby, 27 October 2011 - 14:57.


#66 danoise

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 18:02

@dby: I previously suggested a rewrite that would only output the lines that were about to be played. For example, the NotesOnWheels sequencer does this, because it's way too heave to output those complex sequences in complete "chunks". Instead, the script would keep track of playback progress and output a few lines at a time.

Alternatively, and if you're willing to plan ahead for your performance, another approach would be to put the whole song into a single pattern (a four-pattern song with 8 tracks would instead become a single pattern with 32 tracks). You're loosing out on the ability to recombine things on the fly, but you'd get 32 different elements that you could turn on and off as you'd please.
It would be quite easy to modify a control-map in duplex so that it would display more tracks - all you'd have to do is to change the number of columns for the "Grid" group.

Posted Image


This is a picture of a hacked control-map that make 2 patterns, each with 28 tracks appear on the Launchpad. Same approach would be valid for the monome.

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#67 dby

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 18:34

A rewrite that uses a less CPU heavy method sounds promising. B)

The workaround method of a single pattern might do the trick indeed. One thing I'm thinking could cause some problems is automation... but some Hydra devices could take care of that I guess. I'll look into this. Thanks!

Edited by dby, 27 October 2011 - 18:35.


#68 Gerund

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 00:57

This is no replacement for a good Duplex version, and it's too much of a mess to patch into Grid Pie directly, but I've made a quick hack that lets me use my Novation Launchpad with Grid Pie that I put up here: https://github.com/A...rid-Pie-Novated
Right now, it's hardcoded to think that "Launchpad MIDI 1" is the Launchpad you want to use, which is the default on Linux, but if that changes between OSs, or if you want to use a second launchpad, or something, you're going to have to edit that.
It gets a bit sluggish if you try to do too much at once(try changing all 8 columns), but I don't know if that's the Launchpad's or Gridpie's fault and it isn't really bad enough to make this unusable.
It's mad fun for me at least. :)
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#69 dr4g0n76

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:24

Sorry for the delay, but I'm still fiddling using second gui...

#70 danoise

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 14:42

In the video, the special "recombination" pattern (the one designated __GRID PIE__) is playing, but when I use the tool myself, the playback always moves to the pattern designated by the number specified as "y". Shouldn't it always attempt to play back the live recombination pattern, like in the video demonstration? Or, what am I doing wrong?

Using Grid Pie v0.82 with Renoise 2.7.1

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#71 Conner_Bw

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 15:06

When starting Grid Pie, it turns pattern follow off. It should not move the playback head away from the __GRID_PIE__ pattern. (Unless of course, this is what you want to do in which case the tool is flexible enough to let you do whatever you feel is appropriate. E.g. edit on the fly, and so on.)

Did you accidentally turn pattern follow back to on on while jamming, or something?

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#72 danoise

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 15:50

Did you accidentally turn pattern follow back to on on while jamming, or something?


Yeah, that must have been it. I tried to reset everything, and now it works like advertised :-)

It wasn't the only problem though - I experienced that I couldn't select another track - it restricted itself to the currently selected track in the Grid Pie dialog.
Hmm, I wonder what went wrong. Perhaps another tool interfered?

--

I'm actually preparing to port your script to Duplex, and for that purpose I'd like to introduce a few additions. Tell me what you think:

1. Make the "follow the selected pattern/track" optional. It's really helpful to have, but sometimes you are fully aware of your location, and what the various buttons represent. I'd like to make it optional so that two people can use Grid Pie alongside each other. One operating the controller, and another person using Renoise, or some other tool which depend on the selected track/pattern. Also, this would make the restriction on pattern-follow obsolete.

2. Introduce a "pattern trigger" which copies every track in the selected pattern to the recombination pattern. Sort of like how Ableton Live has a "scene trigger", it's basically just a quick way to set all tracks to the same pattern (useful, because your controller can't always display all tracks).

3. Scheduled triggering - so you can choose between instant (as it currently works), and scheduled triggering (wait until the recombination pattern reach it's end). This should obviously apply to the "scene trigger" as well.
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#73 Conner_Bw

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 16:06

Ya sure, sounds good to me!

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#74 lazerbeat

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 17:28

Danoise those sound like Killer additional features to me!

#75 danoise

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:08

I just realized that we don't need the additional trigger row. Duplex supports press, release and hold events, so it's possible for a track copy to happen when a button is released, and a pattern copy could simply be triggered by a held button

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