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#51 qayqaywsx

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 14:52

1
Actually, this is not directly supported, but it has been suggested a number of times. I think I'll make a really simple application that does exactly this - TrackSelector or something like that.

2
The Effect application is mostly designed to control existing effects. Have you tried to add the Mixer EQs first, and then use the application to control them afterwards?
As for assigning specific parameters to a specific control, this is something which is planned. Eventually, you'll get a "effect dashboard" which contain all the favourite effects in that particular song (but we need to figure out how to save script data in songs first)

3
Haha, yes, actually that would make sense. Currently, any solo button which is pressed would turn off all other tracks by ca3lling the internal solo() API method. This might change, as what you are describing sounds a bit more useful


1 Would be very nice if you implement such a thing!

2 I disagree a bit from my point of view for using existing Effects inside songs. If i wanted to use that i can use a song template with assigned CCs inside Renoise already.

Very handy (but hard to script) would be an Api-function called InsertFxOnDemand ;)
Where options for this app is :

(CC or whatever assignment)
Tracknumber= (if not specified by RowIndex)
DSP Name (Item from List of Renoise Standard DSPs)


Then the Encoders could mapped to
Application Effects.DSP
mappings
DSP="Filter"
Param1 =
group = "Encoder"
index=xy
track=3


And then a routine which checks wether Fx is already there or adds it into the DSP chain accordingly to Track or RowIndex

3 Looking forward to it !



Thanks for the answers i'm looking forward the next changes ;)

#52 satobox

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 01:41

TrackSelector or something like that.

Ah, I also think this is very useful.

For example, in the current layout for the APC40, I am worried whether the Device Selector part is really comfortable or not. Though now the device selector is set to 16 buttons there temporary, if there is the TrackSelector app, it's better to set the direct track-selector to 8 buttons & the device-selector to 8 buttons, I think.
Also, I want to request to add the Effect device page navigator (2 buttons for controlling visible device page) to the Effect app.

Well, already there are many requests about Duplex though ;) , since it's a very unique approach for supporting external controller, I hope it will grow step by step. I think it will be one of the most strong point of Renoise. :)

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#53 danoise

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 13:57

I think it will be one of the most strong point of Renoise. :)

Not least because you now joined the documentation efforts. I just discovered your "getting started" topic on writing a control-map.
Great stuff, this was something that was sorely lacking. Most of the info is probably a bit technical, so it's nice to see a more friendly version :-)

About the TrackSelector app: having direct access to specific tracks and a next/previous style control should cover everything?

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#54 majjam

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 21:57

About the TrackSelector app: having direct access to specific tracks and a next/previous style control should cover everything?


For me it is those 2 and half functions to cover everything:

1 previous / next
(1.5 previous / next with offset ?)

2 direct track selection

What do you think ?

#55 satobox

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 02:10

For me it is those 2 and half functions to cover everything:

1 previous / next
(1.5 previous / next with offset ?)

2 direct track selection

What do you think ?

Yeah I think so too.

Also please add the "Track Increment" option, like Matrix and Mixer apps.
Because Mixer, Matrix, and TrackSelector apps in the APC series should be set to do the same (page changing) behavior.

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#56 pashtet

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 23:11

Sorry if this already was discussed — I use Launchpad and when I close Renoise, the pads stay shining. I have to disconnect Launchpad to turn them off. Is there a way to solve it?
Apart from this I can't describe how much I love this magic combination — Renoise + Duplex + Launchpad. Pure win! :yeah:

#57 CarpentersKeys

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 16:29

Hey I'm running the akward stage Akai MPD 26. Can anything be done with duplex? I'm not familiar with the tool to begin with and I tried just running it as MPD 32 but it doesn't (seam) to recognise it.

Also, from what I could tell Duplex can't mass trigger different patterns in the matrix. If that's the way it is I'm not sure this is of any use to me... but I wanted to try getting some more capabilities out of my mapping so I thought I'd try and figure this out. I was really hoping I'd be able to trigger a horizontaly progressing triggering of pattern matrix blocks (say, a beat) while also being able to control the patterns horizontally.

No idea if this is even possible but I thought I'd ask. I know I could achieve a similar effect by running two instances of Renoise but I've noticed some glitchy stuff happening there when I do that. This is how I make my tracks rather than by tracking it out so I can't really stand to tolerate that.

Cheers for any help or comments guys.

#58 satobox

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 00:05

@CarpentersKeys

Hi,

Though I'm not sure what kind of layout you want exactly, I think it's impossible to move matrix horizontally at this point.

But making the mapping for MPD26 itself is not so difficult. :)
I made the test map for MPD26 by editing the driver's MPD24 files.
But since I don't have MPD26 actually, please try to test it yourself.
Although I referred to MPD26 editor, assignment of some parameters may be wrong.


Download and unzip this file, and put the "MPD26" folder to;
C:\Documents and Settings\YourName\Application Data\Renoise\V2.6.1\Scripts\Tools\com.renoise.Duplex.xrnx\Duplex\Controllers


Also please refer this post too :[How To Start Editing Duplex Files]


[EDIT]
I bought MPD26 and made config file for it.
Please see this post

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#59 satobox

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 00:32

About the TrackSelector app: having direct access to specific tracks and a next/previous style control should cover everything?

Hey, danoise.
Let me say one more request please... :rolleyes:

If you make such the TrackSelector app in the future update, could you add simple Seq-Trigger function with it?

The reason why is:
I made MPD26 mapping, but still there are utilizable 2 PAD BANKs left. So I want to assign 16 seq-trigger to one of the PAD BANK.
I know that there is the "trigger" function in the Matrix app, but I cannot assign it to 16 Pads since I already assigned the "matrix" function to 1x4 Pads in the first BANK. (current "trigger" function is hard-coded with the matrix line number, isn't it??)

seq.png

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#60 danoise

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 14:55

Hi Satobox! Funny that, I was just looking at Duplex and this TrackSelector thing today.

I made MPD26 mapping, but still there are utilizable 2 PAD BANKs left. So I want to assign 16 seq-trigger to one of the PAD BANK.
I know that there is the "trigger" function in the Matrix app, but I cannot assign it to 16 Pads since I already assigned the "matrix" function to 1x4 Pads in the first BANK. (current "trigger" function is hard-coded with the matrix line number, isn't it??)

Yeah, the Matrix doesn't "wrap" it's pattern triggers, like you show with the illustration. So you've only got access to four patterns. However, the matrix already have a pretty functional pattern-trigger, which is made especially for buttons (UIButtonStrip), so it's just a question of making that control able to wrap 4x4 into 16 consecutive buttons. Actually, the approach could also be translated to matrix lines (wrap the mute/unmute buttons the same way as the triggers).

For simplicity's sake it would probably be a good idea to extract the whole pattern-trigger part from the Matrix and make it a separate application, PatternSequence. I'm all for creating tiny, useful application that perform a specific task - and currently the Matrix is doing two things, which are only somewhat related (muting/unmuting slots and triggering patterns).

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#61 satobox

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 21:51

Though I don't understand a technical thing well, the independent application "PatternSequence" is more better idea indeed. It's intelligible. B)

(Btw, If it's troublesome to implement, I'm OK even if it cannot "wrap" since simply I can make temporal 1x16 group on the Duplex GUI. The Duplex GUI may not necessarily be the same as the hardware interface. I am satisfied if actual operation is possible. :) )

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#62 danoise

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 23:04

I think I'll make a really simple application that does exactly this - TrackSelector or something


Et voilà, the TrackSelector has been born!

It integrates with the other Duplex apps (Matrix, Mixer and StepSequencer) and offer direct control of the following:

* Select the next/previous track (via buttons)
* Select the next/previous track-page (via buttons)
* Select/set a specific track (via buttons or dial/fader)
* Select (first) normal track (via button)
* Select master track (via button)
* Select (first) send track (via button)

Note: if you're using a dial or fader to select tracks, the next/previous controls are not really useful and can be left out. Only the mapping to select/set a specific track is required.

The TrackSelector has one option, "track_increment". This will determine the "page size" when flipping through tracks (again, only really relevant if you're selecting tracks by using buttons). The default is to automatically detect the number of buttons - so if you want to run multiple apps and have their tracks nicely aligned, "track_increment" should be set to the same value as the other applications.


Installation procedure - until a proper release arrives...

1. Copy TrackSelector.lua to the Duplex/Applications folder
2. Edit the desired device configuration


For details on how to edit configurations etc., check out the Duplex manual on the tools site.
For starters, here's an example device configuration for the Launchpad (Duplex 0.96 is required):



-- setup "TrackSelector + Mixer" 

duplex_configurations:insert {

  -- configuration properties
  name = "TrackSelector",
  pinned = true,
  
  -- device properties
  device = {
    class_name = "Launchpad",
    display_name = "Launchpad",
    device_port_in = "Launchpad",
    device_port_out = "Launchpad",
    control_map = "Controllers/Launchpad/Launchpad-Recorder.xml",
    thumbnail = "Launchpad.bmp",
    protocol = DEVICE_MIDI_PROTOCOL,
  },

  applications = {
    TrackSelector = {
      mappings = {
        prev_next_track = {
          group_name = "Controls",
          index = 1,
        },
        prev_next_page = {
          group_name = "Controls",
          index = 3,
        },
        select_first = {
          group_name = "Controls",
          index = 5,
        },
        select_master = {
          group_name = "Controls",
          index = 6,
        },
        select_sends = {
          group_name = "Controls",
          index = 7,
        },
        select_track = {
          group_name = "Row2",
          index = 1,
        },
      },
      options = {      
        track_increment = 1,
      }
    },
    Mixer = {
      mappings = {
        levels = {
          group_name = "Grid",
        },
      },
      options = {
        follow_track = 1,
        track_increment = 1,
      }
    },
  }
}

I'm OK even if it cannot "wrap" since simply I can make temporal 1x16 group on the Duplex GUI

Ah OK, you would be fooling Duplex into thinking that the buttons are actually next to each other. Yeah, that would definitely work Posted Image

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#63 satobox

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 03:42

Thanks very much for making the TrackSelector app!!
Unexpectedly, it has some additional useful controls (especially I like "select_sends" :) ), so I'm re-considering about a new layout.

But I experienced some errors, especially, when I tried to use a fader as track-selector. It seems something wrong.
This is a simple example. Could you see what's wrong??

Attached File  R-control-xx.zip   4KB   234 downloads

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#64 satobox

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 10:06

Also please try this APC40 mapping too.

If all the "Track increment" options of Matrix, Mixer and TrackSelector are "Automatic",
TrackSelector works wonderfully really.

But when all the "Track increment" options of Matrix, Mixer and TrackSelector are "2",
please try to use TrackSelector and page-Left/Right buttons several times.
TrackSelector will begin to jump to wrong track (the gap between TrackSelector and Matrix/Mixer arises. TrackSelector seems to be confused).

Attached File  APC40xx.zip   13.27KB   251 downloads

apc40.png

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#65 danoise

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 13:06

But I experienced some errors, especially, when I tried to use a fader as track-selector. It seems something wrong.

Thanks a lot - this should be fixed now. I somehow expected the "track page" to be present when using a dial, this is what caused it.

As for the other issue, I think I understand. You seem to have problems with how the jump by page controls work, but the result isn't strictly speaking a wrong result, it merely is a confusing one?

Here's an example: each time you jump to a location which is out of bounds, say jumping from track 8 to track 12 in a 10-track song, the resulting position is adjusted to the closest possible (which in this case would be 10). Jumping back (still with a track increment of 4), we would end up in track 6.

The only way I see this solved cleanly is *not* to update the selected track when jumping through pages?
[Edit] Thinking more about it, the current way is probably the most intuitive. Problem is, when you are jumping through pages without updating the active track, the other apps will not align themselves automatically. So you end up with a TrackSelector which show a different set of tracks - that is, until you select a track. This would probably be even more confusing! But I could make an extra check, so that a scenario like the one above (jumping back from track 10) would go to track 8 instead of track 6, keeping the pages more consistent. If only the topmost tracks are affected, this would seem like a good compromise.

I've attached a version of TrackSelector with this new behaviour. Check out if it's an improvement?

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#66 satobox

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 15:46

Thanks a lot - this should be fixed now. I somehow expected the "track page" to be present when using a dial, this is what caused it.

Thanks very much. Now I can use fader as Track-Selector. Very impressive!!

About the APC issue, now I can understand the cause itself, but still I feel it's something strange behaviour honestly.
But there is no better method, isn't there?? If so, I think it's compromise-able too.
(What a puzzled problem it is!! :wacko: )

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#67 danoise

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 16:10

But there is no better method, isn't there?

No, not unless Duplex was able to make applications exchange information. And this really could become a can of worms...currently, the core Duplex apps are communicating "through" Renoise, which is much more clean and easy to understand. But this is also the reason that we can't select a page in the TrackSelector and have e.g. the Mixer update itself, because Renoise has no such concept as "track pages" which the Mixer could receive notifications from. So we basically need to set the active track first, in order to have the Mixer align itself properly.

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#68 satobox

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 22:41

No, not unless Duplex was able to make applications exchange information. And this really could become a can of worms...currently, the core Duplex apps are communicating "through" Renoise, which is much more clean and easy to understand. But this is also the reason that we can't select a page in the TrackSelector and have e.g. the Mixer update itself, because Renoise has no such concept as "track pages" which the Mixer could receive notifications from. So we basically need to set the active track first, in order to have the Mixer align itself properly.

I see. I can understand and thanks for your effort. :)

-----------------------------------

Btw, just an idea though;

I really like the fader-assign in TrackSelector. It's very intuitive that the cursor moves right/left according to the movement of the fader.
So maybe, if you consider to make PatternSequence app in the future, I think that adding such fader(or knob) assign in PatternSequence as well is cool. Imagine that the pattern cursor moves up/down according to the movement of the fader.

If such fader assign and the mute button for Matrix slot are there, we can cover whole Matrix by tweaking only 2 faders and 1 button. B)

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#69 satobox

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:09

Hey danoise,

Today I try to make new mappings for the APC20, and I have 1 question.
APC20 has just only 1 knob called "CUE LEVEL", but this knob sends a bit strange midi signals.
If I trun the knob to the left, it sends many "7F", and if I turn it to the right, it sends many "1".[if the speed which turns the knob is quick, other values will be sent.]
Can't Duplex support such a strange knob?? (I want to assign TrackSelector there, if possible)

apc20-knob.png

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#70 danoise

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 16:36

If I trun the knob to the left, it sends many "7F", and if I turn it to the right, it sends many "1".[if the speed which turns the knob is quick, other values will be sent.]

Ah, so it happens to be an endless rotary dial without any visual feedback (LED lights)? Then it's a basic relative control, different from the absolute controls that we've dealt with so far.
There are different implementations of relative controls (various between manufacturer, or even individual models) , so we'll definitely have to support more than just this one.

PS: Now where was that APC tech-guide that you linked to a while back? It contained a lot of valuable information, like the sysex codes and the expected output from controls like this one.

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#71 satobox

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 21:53

Ah, so it happens to be an endless rotary dial without any visual feedback (LED lights)?

Yes, it is.

PS: Now where was that APC tech-guide that you linked to a while back? It contained a lot of valuable information, like the sysex codes and the expected output from controls like this one.

This one?? :huh:
http://www.akaipro.c...tocol_rev_1.pdf

Btw, now I confirmed that the knob works as "Relavive two's comp" in the Renoise's MIDI mapping option.

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#72 danoise

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 18:34

Thanks, that was useful. Looking at the Renoise docs, these are the relative modes that are supported natively:


* Relative signed bit: Increase at [065 - 127], decrease at [001 - 063].
* Relative signed bit 2: Increase at [001 - 063], decrease at [065 - 127].
* Relative bin offset: Increase at [065 - 127], decrease at [063 - 000].
* Relative two's comp: Increase at [001 - 64], decrease at [127 - 065].


The APC docs specify the cue control in the following way:

The value in the data field will indicate a relative change; values 01 to 63 describe a positive change and

values 127 down to 64 describe a negative change.


Relative two's comp it is then! But I'm not sure if the minor discrepancy between the two definitions (63 vs. 64) is simply a typo in one of the specifications?

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#73 satobox

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 00:02

Relative two's comp it is then! But I'm not sure if the minor discrepancy between the two definitions (63 vs. 64) is simply a typo in one of the specifications?

Hmm, I don't know. Maybe taktik knows well? :huh:
But I think that the center value itself is not so important since I've never seen such "high values" (ie 63 or 64) actually.
All the values I can confirm are about [7F - 60 (turn left)] and [20 - 1 (turn right)], even if I try to tweak the knob very very fast :blink: . In usual use, 7F or 1 mostly. It's impossible to reach such highest values.

Btw, I am anxious about other knobs of APC40, since if the knobs are also such kind of special type, they shouldn't work in the current Duplex configuration which I've made. :(

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#74 danoise

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 13:06

Btw, I am anxious about other knobs of APC40, since if the knobs are also such kind of special type, they shouldn't work in the current Duplex configuration


Don't worry. It's only the cue control that is relative, AFAIK.
The only thing that's really missing is that LED dials on the APC40 have an option where you can specify if the LEDs are supposed to light up "centered" (good for displaying something like panning).

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#75 satobox

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 23:59

The only thing that's really missing is that LED dials on the APC40 have an option where you can specify if the LEDs are supposed to light up "centered" (good for displaying something like panning).

Personally I think that it's not so big missing, of course it's nice to have though.:)

Anyway, I've temporary made some new configurations for APC20, 40, and MPD26.
Though APCs have to be updated when the support for CUE LEVEL knob is coming.

Try the APC40's "Relative Scroll" config with appropriate options (see the comment of the config). It's very intuitive thanks to the TrackSelector on the CUE LEVEL knob. B)

Attached File  new-configs.zip   52.12KB   309 downloads

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