Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 9 votes

Note Align (Sample Hit Point)


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#1 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1444 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:25

Like this:

Attached Images

  • renoise-hitpoint.jpg

Edited by joule, 16 December 2011 - 09:43.

  • Denim, Ledger, Djeroek and 24 others like this

#2 Guest_Jenoki_*

Guest_Jenoki_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:29

+1 !!!! Very good idea.

#3 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1444 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:33

For those who don't understand, think of this as a per-sample +/- delay offset.
  • Hankataks, crazya02 and Jenoki like this

#4 Conner_Bw

Conner_Bw

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7066 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:35

I still don't understand, why wouldn't I just trim the sample?

cpu Lenovo X220, Intel i7-2640M @ 2.80GHz ×4 os Windows 10 / Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
My Homepage » : My Renoise Tools » : Normalize Your Sig » : One million clicks! »


#5 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1444 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:39

I still don't understand, why wouldn't I just trim the sample?


That will remove what's before the hit point. You want that to play before the "hit". How do you sync a sweep sample to the rest of the pattern at the moment? It is very difficult and can't be done with any accuracy.

Edited by Joel Johansson, 06 May 2011 - 15:44.

  • Hankataks, crazya02, fladd and 2 others like this

#6 Guest_Jenoki_*

Guest_Jenoki_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:47

Joel explained it to me like this in IRC:

joule: jenoki, ask yourself: how do you sync a low attack whip sound to the rest of the pattern?
Jenoki: i play it a few lines before
Jenoki: OH
Jenoki: OH JOULE
Jenoki: i understand now
joule: Jenoki, you play it a few lines before and HOPE for it to match?
Jenoki: yeah
Jenoki: i understand
Jenoki: good idea

#7 Conner_Bw

Conner_Bw

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7066 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:47

I don't understand. From your screenshot.

"When sample is played, it automatically starts at hitpoint"

To me, this means defining a start position to a sample. Now you are saying you can play before the hit? And you would do this by programatically entering the 09xx command?

Or, are you saying you would put a note in the first line of a pattern, but you want renoise to calculate backwards in time? Like a reverse autoseek?

cpu Lenovo X220, Intel i7-2640M @ 2.80GHz ×4 os Windows 10 / Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
My Homepage » : My Renoise Tools » : Normalize Your Sig » : One million clicks! »


#8 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1444 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 06 May 2011 - 15:55

Or, are you saying you would put a note in the first line of a pattern, but you want renoise to calculate backwards in time? Like a reverse autoseek?


You probably got it in your last question, if i understand you.

I wrote "When the sample is played in pattern, it automatically starts so the hit point matches where the note is entered"
  • Conner_Bw, Djeroek, simonwellander and 1 other like this

#9 rhowaldt

rhowaldt

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hague, Netherlands

Posted 06 May 2011 - 16:13

ok yeah i get the idea. 'reverse autoseek' is a nice way to put it. but, however nice, i can't help but feel its a bit of a luxury feature... i mean, you can indeed play it some lines before and 'hope' (that is, 'experiment') for it to match.

specs: [cpu] AMD Turion64 X2 TL-56 1.80 Ghz [ram] 2Gb DDR2 [audio] Realtek HD [os] Win7 x86
gear: cheap-ass no-functions-whatsoever midi-keyboard, Zoom H4 recorder, MeeBlip
home: http://www.roaldblijleven.net (forever under construction)
renoise: http://roald.exul.nl...oise/cheatsheet
music: http://soundcloud.com/rhowaldt

#10 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1444 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 06 May 2011 - 16:17

ok yeah i get the idea. 'reverse autoseek' is a nice way to put it. but, however nice, i can't help but feel its a bit of a luxury feature... i mean, you can indeed play it some lines before and 'hope' (that is, 'experiment') for it to match.


Ok. For me, things like snares with attack I even want control on a sample level when it comes to matching the hit to the pattern. Trial&error and settling isn't good enough. It's even more tedious with longer sweeps that ends with some sort of hit.
  • esaruoho, crazya02, simonwellander and 1 other like this

#11 simonwellander

simonwellander

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 May 2011 - 17:06

Really like the idea :yeah:

#12 dformd

dformd

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts

Posted 06 May 2011 - 20:05

I like luxuries. +1
dforming Renoise, Bidule, and AudioMulch on a daily basis.

#13 Djeroek

Djeroek

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Borneo

Posted 06 May 2011 - 20:38

would be nice to have indeed for samples with long fade in times to line up the loudest amplitude of the attack to a certain position in the pattern editor.
  • joule and Jenoki like this

#14 f+d+k

f+d+k

    Big Super GrandMasta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 716 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:On Land
  • Interests:고추장

Posted 06 May 2011 - 21:26

+1 definitely.

#15 kazakore

kazakore

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6140 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 May 2011 - 08:22

Been suggested so many time and something I really, really do want to see introduced.

+1337 from me!

#16 Djeroek

Djeroek

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Borneo

Posted 09 May 2011 - 03:39

Maybe this is scriptable? Through using a slice marker as indicator and by having the script calculate where the sample should be placed to line up the slice at cursor position.

#17 carmazine

carmazine

    Chief Above Chief Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Krakow / Poland

Posted 09 May 2011 - 03:56

Great idea!

#18 noby

noby

    Local Chief Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 238 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finland
  • Interests:Sound

Posted 09 May 2011 - 04:00

Joel explained it to me like this in IRC:

joule: jenoki, ask yourself: how do you sync a low attack whip sound to the rest of the pattern?
Jenoki: i play it a few lines before
Jenoki: OH
Jenoki: OH JOULE
Jenoki: i understand now
joule: Jenoki, you play it a few lines before and HOPE for it to match?
Jenoki: yeah
Jenoki: i understand
Jenoki: good idea


I didn't get this either, until I read this.

+1, seems like a good solution for this problem we have.

#19 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1444 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:24

Maybe this is scriptable? Through using a slice marker as indicator and by having the script calculate where the sample should be placed to line up the slice at cursor position.


It is theoretically possible, but very limited I think. First of all it would be one pitch only and triggered by a hot key, right?

Edited by Joel Johansson, 09 May 2011 - 07:27.


#20 Acidfire

Acidfire

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:00

+1 *want*

#21 Ledger

Ledger

    Guruh Motha Fakka Knows More About Renoise Than Taktik

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3370 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:21

Nice idea!

--> Lua For Beginners <--
--> Lua for newbies <--

My Scripts On Forum

Top Tip!

 

cpu : Xeon 1231 v3, os : Win 7 64bit, audio: Audient iD4
posts as 4tune @ KvR and some other music related sites


#22 subset

subset

    Chief Above Chief Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 288 posts

Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:51

Currently you can use the track delay option for something like this. Just nudge it to some negative value. It works only for things that have attack that spans a few milliseconds, and there's still a bit of hunting about for the hit point by ear, but at least you can put the note on the line where the hit point should be and not fiddle with earlier lines and delay commands.

+1 for the idea though. It will indeed be useful.

Edited by subset, 09 May 2011 - 09:53.


#23 kazakore

kazakore

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6140 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:40

Have done it by adding silence and using the Ruler set to Beats, then you don't need to use the Delay column but only if you are only ever playing the Sample on one Note (or multi-sample your Instrument for every note, although you're actually using the same sample just with different amounts of initial silence.) Wanted this to make it easier and more flexible for a long time!

#24 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6330 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 09 May 2011 - 13:29

It can indeed a bit be a bit tricky to (manually) enter the note at a precise location.
Here's how I figured it could be done most easily -

First of all, make sure the upper ruler in the sample editor is set to display beats (right-click). This should provide you with the approximate amount of lines/delay you'd need to use.
It's of great importance that you've transposed the sample to the correct pitch before trying to determine the time, as this will affect the beat ruler.

Posted Image

With that information, we now know where to place the hit-point of the "whip sample" to make it sound precisely at the 4th line...
If LPB is 2, we need to have 1.125 lines between sample triggering point and hit-point.
If LPB is 4, we need to have 2.25 lines between sample triggering point and hit-point.
etc...

Or, as it would look like in the actual pattern editor:

00 --- -- ··
01 --- -- ··
02 C-500 -- E4 <- This is where the sample is triggered (E4 = delay, corresponds to 1/8 of a line)
03 --- -- ··
04 --- -- ·· <- This is where the hitpoint will sound

If LPB was 4, we'd enter the following instead

00 --- -- ··
01 C-500 -- C0 <- This is where the sample is triggered (C0 = delay, corresponds to 1/4 of a line)
02 --- -- ··
03 --- -- ··
04 --- -- ·· <- This is where the hitpoint will sound

--

@Joel Johansson: for your original idea, how do you envision that working with hit-points should be integrated into the pattern editor?
Seems to me that it would either involve "magical" notes that start playing before they are triggered, or notes that are automatically moved right after being entered (adjusted for delay).
Both options would be pretty confusing IMHO

Personally, I like the current workflow. I don't do a whole lot of backwards stuff, but that doesn't mean that a number of small things couldn't be improved:
For instance, the sample editor should have the ability to report not only the 09xx offset, but also the selection in beats/sample/minutes.

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#25 kazakore

kazakore

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6140 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 May 2011 - 13:42

See my point above about playing the same sample at different pitches. (Plus adding silence at start so no need for Delay column calculations in your example of only playing at one note.)

Sampled Pads are a prime example of this, although you are more likely to do your build with an Envelope so it will be synced at different pitches, there may be some who want to use sampled pads and to get the swell to correspond when playing a chord is going to be a lot of work.

Also it would work with the B0 Reverse command, so good for reverse symbols and other percussion where you want the attack on the beat whether playing forwards or backwards without having to use two samples for it.


You will find it in many DAWs and really is something I hope Renoise considers incorporating soon...