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Why Does Renoise Sounds So Good?


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#26 The Witch Kings

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 15:14

Seriously, it sounds analog to me. Sounds flat and real like a real high end board from days of old.

No other daw even comes close, is renoise written in assembler, why are the audio algorithms for summing and everything so good?

I love renoise.


Because assembly language is closer to machine language, which is closer to the soul of a computer's native language, and everybody knows that soul sounds good?

Explains why fruity loops sounds so bad, being written in some variant of pascal or something! Not keeping it real at all, there. And god forbid, youtube is written in flash or whatever. Sounds like crap!

#27 mudpeople

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 03:16

it sounds good because there is a microscopic chief engineer in charge of sound quality. That and the wires are bigger.

:P

I dont question so much, jsut enjoy
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#28 rictheobscene

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 15:09

I dont question so much, jsut enjoy


This is my take on it as well, I don't need to know why; I am just glad that it does. :w00t:

#29 Syflom

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 15:35

i don't get why anyone is brining up assembly. isn't maths the same in any language.
the end result is the same.

what assembly is great at is making things faster than anything else.

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#30 D.A.T.

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 12:27

SAWStudio is written in Assembly and is often quoted as the best sounding DAW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZTFe9FmEZ0

$2500.


hahaha - i love the backroundmusic of this one - it sounds soooo good - think i`ll buy it!

#31 El°HYM

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 17:36

iTs actually @ByteSmasher inside Renoise puttin #lofi on ya Master.


Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#32 lettuce

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 18:02

Because the filters and cabinet simulator are nice and good?


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#33 Type-A

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 18:34

there are oompa loompas inside making it work !!! :badteethslayer:


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#34 thalamus

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 19:47

It sounds exactly the same as any other DAW if you do the same things with it.
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#35 El°HYM

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 19:50

This is not true; Ableton for example has totally different sound & quality, I would agree that Renoise & Fruityloops have similarities in sound, though.

It sounds exactly the same as any other DAW if you do the same things with it.


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#36 dblue

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 20:40

This is not true; Ableton for example has totally different sound & quality


If you take a sample and play it without effects then it should sound identical no matter which DAW it is.

Likewise, if you're using a VST plugin exactly the same way in each DAW, then it should also sound identical in each DAW.

There is no magic "summing engine" or anything else taking place at this basic level, no special proprietary magic, no reason whatsoever that any one DAW should sound better or worse than the other.

If any DAW was doing something "special" at this level which coloured/alterered the sound, you can bet your ass that their customers would be complaining non-stop, asking why the hell their sounds were being fucked with.

When you start introducing DSP effects to the project like EQs and filters, re-pitching sounds, and so on... this is where the differences in the native processing between DAWs will start to reveal themselves.

But at the most basic level, this common discussion of one DAW having better/worse "sound quality" than another DAW is total bullshit, and nothing more than simple placebo that humans unfortunately seem rather vulnerable to.

Don't believe the hype!
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#37 Akiz

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 21:56

If you take a sample and play it without effects then it should sound identical no matter which DAW it is.

Likewise, if you're using a VST plugin exactly the same way in each DAW, then it should also sound identical in each DAW.

There is no magic "summing engine" or anything else taking place at this basic level, no special proprietary magic, no reason whatsoever that any one DAW should sound better or worse than the other.

If any DAW was doing something "special" at this level which coloured/alterered the sound, you can bet your ass that their customers would be complaining non-stop, asking why the hell their sounds were being fucked with.

When you start introducing DSP effects to the project like EQs and filters, re-pitching sounds, and so on... this is where the differences in the native processing between DAWs will start to reveal themselves.

But at the most basic level, this common discussion of one DAW having better/worse "sound quality" than another DAW is total bullshit, and nothing more than simple placebo that humans unfortunately seem rather vulnerable to.

Don't believe the hype!

Mixbus is exception here  ^_^



#38 dblue

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 22:05

Mixbus is exception here  ^_^


When playing a sample/recording through the DAW at its original frequency, original gain, without any effects or EQ being applied, then it should sound completely transparent and identical to the original sound.

Ideally, the output should be bit-for-bit identical to the original recording and should pass a null test, though this is not always necessarily required, or may not be possible due to (very minor and boring) low-level technical reasons.

Regardless, if the output is being altered or coloured in any way that makes it sound noticeably different vs the original recording, then something is seriously wrong with that software.

I don't care who you are, or how much history and "prestige" you have in the audio business... if your software can't output exactly what I put into it at that basic level, then your software is not worth my time.

#39 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 00:12

This is not true; Ableton for example has totally different sound & quality, I would agree that Renoise & Fruityloops have similarities in sound, though.

WHy don't you test things out for yourself .

Load in some samples created with either program  , invert phase and sum ., repeat for every program .

Instead of spreading your own belief  as facts ...

 

I can tell you that samples created either in renoise /fl studio /ableton ..cancel each other out when imported in said programs .


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#40 El°HYM

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 00:33

if U turn off #warping this is tru. Also didnt say fl or renoise sound much different.  :unsure: honestly me cant stand #live users; they all have this elastic audio kind of warped mindset...  :drummer:


Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#41 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:52

Digital audio is stored and played back digitally and as dblue points out, it's a bit-for-bit thing.  When CD arrived it was one of the things they used to boast about, that each CD of an album is identical, there is no variation in the quality of the recording from one CD to another etc (cause technically it's not a recording, it's just data storage).  If one DAW sounds different to another using the same file and nothing else, and both are being run on the same computer, then I'm guessing they've programmed-in some coloration, some process the final output of the DAW is being put through.

 

Without that, the only way one DAW could sound different to another is if each DAW was being used on a different machine, cause DACs make a difference, and the various manufacturers out there use whatever DAC they choose on their soundcards.  On different machines with different DACs, even the same DAW can sound different on different machines, but it's just down to the DAC.


Edited by Renoised, 18 February 2018 - 01:53.


#42 Zer0 Fly

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:19

Renoise sound so nice because you crazy mad ass motherf*cker can make such good noise with it!


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#43 Akiz

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:35

When playing a sample/recording through the DAW at its original frequency, original gain, without any effects or EQ being applied, then it should sound completely transparent and identical to the original sound.

Ideally, the output should be bit-for-bit identical to the original recording and should pass a null test, though this is not always necessarily required, or may not be possible due to (very minor and boring) low-level technical reasons.

Regardless, if the output is being altered or coloured in any way that makes it sound noticeably different vs the original recording, then something is seriously wrong with that software.

I don't care who you are, or how much history and "prestige" you have in the audio business... if your software can't output exactly what I put into it at that basic level, then your software is not worth my time.

But when your sound is going through analog mixing console (this is what mixbus is simulating) it has to be changed, no?



#44 thalamus

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:19

If you apply the same dsp to a sound in Renoise (using a vst processor for example) and do the same in Ableton Live, again the results will be identical.

If the dsp differs then the results will be different.

Ableton doesn't have 'a sound'. If you use Reaper, for example, and start stretching your audio with elastique then you will get a certain quality to the sounds because of that. It has nothing at all to do with Reapers inherent 'sound'.

Edited by thalamus, 18 February 2018 - 10:26.

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#45 dblue

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 13:19

But when your sound is going through analog mixing console (this is what mixbus is simulating) it has to be changed, no?


Ok, sure...

Mixbus is obviously intended to somehow emulate/recreate the characteristic "sound" of a big analogue mixing console (whatever that is), so they are presumably (?) applying some kind of extra processing that colours or "enhances" the mix when sending tracks through the channel strips, applying EQ, applying compression, etc.

According to Wikipedia Mixbus is/was based on the open source Ardour DAW, but I sure can't recall Ardour ever hyping up such "analogue" features... I think it's always just been a pretty typical DAW, no?

Mixbus has obviously tweaked the code to fit their needs, but I have no idea if they actually attempt to simulate the flow of electrons through an accurate model of the original hardware circuits, or if it's just a few cheap tricks to give things a bit of grit/fuzz and a slightly analogue-ish sound, or who the heck knows really...


Anyway...

Even if Mixbus is attempting to do some special audio voodoo magic and produce an "authentic" analogue mixing console sound, I would still expect it to give me clean/transparent output which sounds identical to my input, assuming that I did not touch any channel strip features or other DSP processing. What I put in should be what I get out, assuming no additional processing is applied.

Otherwise, are they claiming that simply playing my dumb samples through Mixbus "unaffected" will somehow produce amazing "analogue" results that will instantly sound better than everything else on the market? I don't think they are claiming anything quite like that, since that's a bit too much like snake oil bullshit imho.

I'm not even sure what such a claim would sound like... My sample + the magic "character" of their fancy analogue circuits and some pseudo-electronics massaging my frequencies into a better shape? :)

I dunno... Silly stuff. People are easily distracted by a pretty GUI and some fancy buzzwords :)


( Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not talking shit about Mixbus here, I have no personal experience with it but I'm sure it's a fine tool... I'm just having a bit of fun on the topic of the typical marketing hype that tends to surround audio software, haha. )
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#46 29a

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 14:02

Mixbus is exception here  ^_^

nope, mixbus just adds tape saturation at the master chanel "by default", it can be easly turned off as it is effect


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#47 El°HYM

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 14:18

What would be the difference then, to letz say juz put a VintageWarmer or similar on the Masterbus of Renoise?

nope, mixbus just adds tape saturation at the master chanel "by default", it can be easly turned off as it is effect


Edited by El°HYM, 18 February 2018 - 14:19.

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#48 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 14:24

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"Mixbus is based on Ardour, the open source DAW, but is sold and marketed commercially by Harrison Audio Consoles"

 

Oh really, then perhaps "Harrison" (if they have not already done so), had better make the source-code available to the public, to include a release of all improvements they have made to the code.  If I'm understand the licence Ardour uses correctly, and Mixbus itself is based on Ardour, then surely Harrison would need to comply with the licence agreement Ardour was released under.  As far as I'm aware, no one is allowed to impose additional licence restrictions above that on which the original code was licenced under.


 


Edited by Renoised, 18 February 2018 - 14:26.


#49 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 14:48

Wow, it gets even more amusing if you visit their analogue gear website too, cause they claim Harrison to be "Manufacturer of the World's Finest Consoles".

I must assume they're completely unaware of NEVE and SSL then :lol:

LMFAO - I actually laughed-out proper loud when I read that :D

 


 


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#50 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 14:58

Studio-2-079.jpg?resize=810%2C507


That's
a console that was genuinely made by one of the "Worlds Finest" (SSL) :walkman:
And that's a woman underneath :w00t: