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Why Does Renoise Sounds So Good?


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#51 Guest_ffx_*

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 14:59

Harri contributes a lot to the Ardour's source code usually, you can even read that in Ardour's changelog. So it is a win-win situation, maybe ardour would be already dead without Harri. It is good for Linux software to get a leading hand from a commercial company, so it does not sink into total chaos. Since there is barely any lead in Linux world.


Edited by Trackerman, 18 February 2018 - 15:00.


#52 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 15:07

That's not the point, you are not permitted to break the licence agreement for any reason.
If Mixbus is based on Ardour, they need to get the source-code uploaded pronto.

 

To be honest, after reading the rhetoric for the software on their website, and that hilarious comment I pointed-out in my previous post from their analogue gear website, I think the company is suffering a chronic case of the bullshits (which doesn't surprise me in the least considering it's American).



#53 El°HYM

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 15:08

Actually the Thriller Album was mixed on an old harrison console, so its not all made up; yet reads a bit cheesy & like the best days long gone.

This is a vintage Harrison 4032 Console. The Console's rise to fame began with Michael Jackson's seminal record Thriller, which was made on a Harrison 4032 desk (as well as his Bad album) and which remains the best selling album of all time. Numerous other hit records were made with the Harrison Console, including titles from Abba, Blondie, Beach Boys, Sade and many others. Even today, the Harrison 4032 Console is highly sought after among collectors and recording studios due to its uniquely pristine, "warm" and distinctly vintage sound signature from the "golden age" of album recordings.

Wow, it gets even more amusing if you visit their analogue gear website too, cause they claim Harrison to be "Manufacturer of the World's Finest Consoles".
I must assume they're completely unaware of NEVE and SSL then :lol:

LMFAO - I actually laughed-out proper loud when I read that :D


Edited by El°HYM, 18 February 2018 - 15:10.

Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#54 29a

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 15:22

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"Mixbus is based on Ardour, the open source DAW, but is sold and marketed commercially by Harrison Audio Consoles"

 

Oh really, then perhaps "Harrison" (if they have not already done so), had better make the source-code available to the public, to include a release of all improvements they have made to the code.  If I'm understand the licence Ardour uses correctly, and Mixbus itself is based on Ardour, then surely Harrison would need to comply with the licence agreement Ardour was released under.  As far as I'm aware, no one is allowed to impose additional licence restrictions above that on which the original code was licenced under.


 

1. open source - https://community.ar...ode/3011?page=1

2. finest console - https://en.wikipedia...#Selected_Users



#55 dblue

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 15:49

1. open source


Included: The general application tweaks that Mixbus brings to Ardour.

Not included: The proprietary Harrison channel strip DSP algorithms. (Totally understandable that they want to protect their work here.)


Seems like a cool partnership anyway, and one which is beneficial for all involved.
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#56 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:23

I never said they're not good consoles, I said they're not the finest consoles in the world.  Hell, I'm deeply into analogue and I hardly ever hear about the Harrison consoles, they're really not that relevant.  It's long-time accepted that the SSL and NEVE consoles are the best out there, which is why they dominated high-end studio installations, and still do in every studio that is truly "High-End".  They're the finest money can buy, so to claim Harrison make "The World's Finest Consoles" is quite amusing.  As for the weird licencing thing, that should not even be allowed if it's based upon Ardour.  Wouldn't that mean Harrison are copyrighting some code that is already shared through the open source product Ardour?  As far as I'm aware, you cannot do that.  You can't copyright Open Source code, not even parts of it, nor can you take parts of it and lock it into a commercial product where the complete source is not made available to the public, otherwise you would be taking other people's work and claiming it.

 

But whatever, sure sounds like abuse and mockery of the Open Source licencing system to me.  I'm sure their consoles and even the software are first-class products, but I can't help feeling there's a bit too much bullshit coming from thier direction along with it all.


Edited by Renoised, 18 February 2018 - 16:23.


#57 El°HYM

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:27

The #hardware on that site looks pretty legit, though. Could be a nice analog touch, adding to Renoise :walkman:

32csimg.png

 

http://harrisonconso.../site/32cs.html


Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#58 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:28

Seems like a cool partnership anyway, and one which is beneficial for all involved.


How can it be beneficial for all involved if they were adding proprietory code to Open Source software products and not share it?
The whole idea of Open Source is so that stuff like that cannot happen.

 

If it isn't, then my own idea of what Open Source is must be completely fucked-up.


Edited by Renoised, 18 February 2018 - 16:53.


#59 29a

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:41

Open Source apps are not viral, if you use open source library inside your property app it doesnt mean you have to release source of your code. You just have to realase changes made to OS library that you made.

Same goes for mixbus - they are using ardour source code for building mixbus and include channelstrip.so ladspa plugin in building process to inject DSP.

 

On the other hand ardour team could just release ardour code on MIT/BSD licence for harrison and they could just simply made whatever they want and give / not giveback whatever they wanted.



#60 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:52

1.jpg

@El°HYM, Here's a good one if you're in the market for some analogue goodness, it's my personal fave, the SSL G-Series :D

It's what I would buy if I was rich!



#61 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:58

Open Source apps are not viral, if you use open source library inside your property app it doesnt mean you have to release source of your code. You just have to realase changes made to OS library that you made.

Same goes for mixbus - they are using ardour source code for building mixbus and include channelstrip.so ladspa plugin in building process to inject DSP.

 

On the other hand ardour team could just release ardour code on MIT/BSD licence for harrison and they could just simply made whatever they want and give / not giveback whatever they wanted.


But from the sounds of it, Mixbus is a DAW, not a plugin for Ardour!
Sounds as if my interpretation of Open Source must be fucked-up then, I'll have to take some time to look into that.

 



#62 29a

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 17:00

But from the sounds of it, Mixbus is a DAW, not a plugin for Ardour!
Sounds as if my interpretation of Open Source must be fucked-up then, I'll have to take some time to look into that.

 

Read post on ardour page ive linked above:

For those who are familiar with Ardour's existing design, Mixbus was implemented using a single closed source LADSPA plugin to provide Harrison's channel strip DSP, along with a set of extensive but non-intrusive changes to Ardour's core. The source code for everything except the plugin is available as usual via the svn repository at ardour.org.


#63 Renoised

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 17:11

Well then, that would mean that Mixbus is not a DAW based upon Ardour, it's a plugin.

 


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#64 El°HYM

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 17:15

Just upload that #plug & let me see, if it does sum magic to my #renoise mix bus.  :ph34r:

Well then, that would mean that Mixbus is not a DAW based upon Ardour, it's a plugin.

 


Edited by El°HYM, 18 February 2018 - 17:16.

Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#65 Mark

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 19:20

As far as I'm aware, no one is allowed to impose additional licence restrictions above that on which the original code was licenced under


So this is the key misinterpretation (an easy one to make). There is one party that can; the copyright holder has total flexibility. They are able to also distribute the same software under a different license. Many projects deliberately ask for a "copyright assignment" to a single person/organisation when you contribute, making it easy to re-license like this.

The alternative is that all copyright holders have to agree, and in some cases (eg. Linux kernel) this is infeasible; which can be a positive or negative depending on your viewpoint.


Edited by Mark, 03 March 2018 - 19:21.


#66 midi error

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 20:13

it was programmed during a time of peak universal resonance ....?


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#67 Renoised

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:19

So this is the key misinterpretation (an easy one to make). There is one party that can; the copyright holder has total flexibility. They are able to also distribute the same software under a different license. Many projects deliberately ask for a "copyright assignment" to a single person/organisation when you contribute, making it easy to re-license like this.

The alternative is that all copyright holders have to agree, and in some cases (eg. Linux kernel) this is infeasible; which can be a positive or negative depending on your viewpoint.


Thanks for the info, I didn't know that :blink:


 



#68 El°HYM

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 00:37

Renoise sounds so good because its based on Alien - Technology ...!


Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#69 Akiz

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 17:07

nope, mixbus just adds tape saturation at the master chanel "by default", it can be easly turned off as it is effect

I think that There are things you can not turn off like crosstalk between channels...



#70 29a

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 12:55

I think that There are things you can not turn off like crosstalk between channels...

im not sure if it is implemented (didnt find any info, also didnt noticed it while using mb), but if so, then yes :)



#71 Rpnz

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 13:21

..this common discussion of one DAW having better/worse "sound quality" than another DAW is total bullshit.


Amen.
I hate it when I watch a masterclass and the Artist says "I use logic because i just like the sound of it a lot more"

*closes vlc, watch some other masterclasses*
House Music All Night Long. - Say What?

#72 Renoised

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 21:29

Ironic thing is, despite the title of the thread and the discussion within it, what really makes things sound good is a talent for mixing and mastering.  It's also my opinion that most people into making music at home these days, fall flat on their faces because of one really stupid thing ...

They monitor on completely unsuitable headphones.

 

The amount of weedy-sounding mixes gets worse the more popular the bass-heavy headphones become, and no super-console be it hardware or software, will help you out there.  What peeps often don't realise is that if you monitor on bass heavy-headphones, then your mixes will be light on bass and generally lack warmth for the listener, because the mix was monitored on completely unsuitable headphones with excessive bass, causing you to remove too much bass in the mix.  I can tell whether the mastering engineer was using bass-heavy headphones, or whether they've lost the high frequencies of their hearing due to using them, quite easily.  Today, almost everything I hear sounds like crap (scary thought) and a lot of that is down to the mastering engineer using unsuitable headphones.

 

Moral of the story = If you have bass-heavy headphones, throw them away for the sake of your ears, and your mixes.

 



#73 Zer0 Fly

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 18:09

Bass heavy phones for mixing make you go for sloppy mids. And focus on treble too much. Also Quality of bass instruments will suffer greatly in character, as you cannot really work on the upper bass/lower mid content of the instruments, the fundamental will overshadow too much due to the boost. But "too little bass" only comes from newbies not referencing stuff against other pro mixes, with bass heavy cans you can also dial in the "right" amount, it is just it will sound very strong on them.

 

I have bass heavy cans and I use them for seeing if there is too much bass in the mix and how it impacts and which color the lowest end has... on them all other sound will drown behind the bass if it is too much. Also these cans are useful as they have shit resolution sounding veiled, so you can see what is appearant on the surface in focus of the listener. They have weak treble, so dialing in so I can hear it will make sure the very top end has enough presence.

 

for all other tasks I use dt880, they are the exact opposite of the bass cans. yes please mix and master on neutral cans with high resolution and certian brightness, it is like a magnifier. But they make me have a very bold mix with too much bass and mids if I solely use them without reference.

 

But point is any reproduction gear can be useful, just for the task the headphones are tuned to, also bass cans can have their good purpose. For mixing please use neutral cans with good stereo imaging.

 

Also: you know you can just develop an eq preset that will make you tune things right if you mix through it? with any cans...then it is only about resolution and stereo imaging and impulse quality of the phones.


Edited by OopsIFly, 10 March 2018 - 18:10.


#74 Renoised

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 18:23

Also: you know you can just develop an eq preset that will make you tune things right if you mix through it? with any cans...then it is only about resolution and stereo imaging and impulse quality of the phones.


Sure, I always use an EQ preset to level the frequency response off when experimenting with mixing and mastering.
Still, the headphones themselves matter a lot, for example there's no way I'd be allowing 50mm drivers to pound my eardrums for too long, I'm too much in love with my hearing for that :lol:

 



#75 MattD

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 19:47

Sounds as if my interpretation of Open Source must be fucked-up then, I'll have to take some time to look into that.

 

There are some clues here: https://www.kvraudio...481070#p6731637

 

Also a bit more here: https://www.gearslut...-bus-3-a-6.html

 

So maybe there's some technical thing happening where their proprietary bits are getting loaded as plugins. Regardless, if the copyright holders (the contributors) are happy then that's all that matters. The copyright holders are free to offer their software under multiple different licenses to different parties if they want.


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