Novation products with Automap, experience?

Hey party people
I’ve been looking at Novation Zero-SL MkII for a while now, seems pretty awesome. About this automap software, I’m not sure what to expect of it. First and foremost I would love if that ‘speed dial’ works in renoise as well. Before I’ll buy it I’ll try and check it out at a more or less local shop first, but probably won’t be sure to have the chance there to test the automap stuff icw renoise… What do you novation owners (with dials, not launchpad) do, turn off the automap?
thanks!

I think I would like to have a ‘production’ preset where e.g. the crossfader switches tracks from left to right, and a ‘mix’ preset with different behaviour… is this possible inside, does it have banks like that, or do you need to upload/switch presets from the software?

I have a collection of Novation gear, and the Remote SL MKII (keyboard version) is my clear favorite.

Speed dial: yes, that feature is working fine (at least on windows, I can confirm this).

Automap mixer features does not work with Renoise, as special code would need to be compiled into Renoise for it to work,
and I don’t think you’re likely to see that happen. But the alternative is even better: Duplex is capable of driving a mixer, select tracks,
control effects, pretty much everything. Duplex knows more about Renoise than automap does

It’s funny though - for bi-directional communication to work, the automap software needs to be running. Duplex is then
piggy-backing on automap to achieve the instantaneous feedback.

Alright, thanks for your answer, that does clear up a whole bunch. Wouldn’t have guessed on speed dial or any automap specific thing to work under linux anyway. So how does it work feedback-wise, I mean, if you have more than 8 tracks - how can you see which fader is controlling which tracks controls? If I understand correctly, with Duplex on Windows one might have track names displayed on the little lcd screen etc? Or device parameters even?
Just asking, thanks a lot for the info

Linux, no I don’t think automap works there. Which is a shame really, as far as the Remote goes.
Other Novation gear, like the Launchpad, have drivers written for it, but the Remote would be working without the MIDI feedback AFAIK

No, technically it is not possible to control the Remote’s LCD screens, at least I have not found a way to do this.
The LCD panels just tell me the CC value of each knob, and act as a window into the Remote “OS”

It’s very simple - say you have 14 tracks and the hardware can display 8 tracks at a time? Then, you have a
“next/previous” page style navigation which allows you to scroll through tracks…If you get lost, well you are
probably using too many tracks for this kind of workflow. Good for mixing sessions though

If you don’t use Duplex for the Remote, you can easily change the names for the buttons, knobs and faders in the Automap utility. Then you can also assign anything you like in Renoise to the Remote.

But, since linux was mentioned Automap is not really an option, ruling out any kind of “intelligent control”.

Yes, Novation states that the Remote is class-compliant, so no drivers are needed for standard MIDI mappings

That’s what my question is, I don’t have any idea what Automap does! Can you give a little description of the behaviour? (With or without Duplex)

That was Danoise his problem as well, Automap seems a proprietary closed software project. I’m pretty sure that there would have been a solution on Linux if the Automap message construction would have been known.

I think he’s asking what it does, not how it does it…

Sure, I’ll try and explain what it does. Basically, Automap is a “server” type of software that you install on your PC or Mac. Keeping this analogy, the Novation hardware is connecting to this server can be considered clients, and you can connect multiple of these clients at the same time.

What’s smart about this is that Automap can then tell your hardware something about the software side of things. For example, Automap for the Remote can provide you with “auto-mapped” mixer features for many common DAWs (Renoise not included), and also, it’s able to wrap VST plugins in a shell so that Automap is able to tell the hardware which parameters are available (with the included editor, this is quite a powerful feature).

What’s problematic about Automap is, as vV points out, it’s a proprietary standard that only Novation’s products can understand. Also, DAW support is kind of limited (but I found a way to achieve the same functionality and more in Renoise by piggybacking, as mentioned). And last but not least, the missing Linux support.

if anyone is in the market to get a Novation Remote SL MKII 25 key, mine is currently up on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121029706754

i love this board but im not really making full use of it, and i’m a bit pressed on space right now (i’m korg nano’d out atm lol)

if it would’ve been one octave more I’d think about it. sorry

haha no doubt… i could really use the extra octave too!

If you like what Tehnik said, and I happen to agree, and feel that the, “older skool,” midi setup is better than automap, and the m-audio map solution… You might find this brand/line of controllers quite interesting. http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1095/460

They also have the less expensive A300 Pro. ( it has less keys )

These Roland controllers allow pretty much the type of mapping Tehnik is talking about. The manual is available to read/download from Roland’s website.

Nice stuff…

Got a Remote SL sitting here for years, been trying to sell it for a few months. Hate how it feels, hate how it works. Went out to take a look at better controllers, found out that the competition is EVEN WORSE.

I quit hardware, PC keyboard is good enough.

You compared the Roland A500 Pro, to your current controller, and found it was worse? Really? Why, what is up? It has had great reviews. I haven’t checked it out yet, but what did you think of it?

LOL wtf. You’re in the wrong thread I think

Anyways I still have no idea which one I want for a better control, see I now have the Akai MPK mini 25-key and I love it for the money. It’s in my eyes still the best bang for buck a beginning composer/producer/beatmaker can ever wish for. But since I’ve been freestyle composing and sample-sequencing for about 2 years, I’ve also learned a little music theory (check this out if you need!) and I definitely set to get a controller of at least 4, maybe 5 octaves. I don’t care that I don’t know how to fit it on my desk yet. I think I’ll just go to a shop with a lot of showroom space and figure they’ll have a lot of these controllers to test… Just trying to figure out if the novation stuff works with renoise… Akai has about everything on the MPK configurable, turns out novation does not
Maybe I’ll just get a synth/cheap workstation with midi out.

What do you make of this? Synthesizers - Synthesizers & Music Production Tools - Products - Yamaha USA

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MX49/

It is a Rompler, with a built in Audio Interface, that is loaded with about a thousand sounds, “from the flagship Motif,” ( organs, pianos, cellos, etc," )

A. It works as a VST plugin
B. Is 16 part multi-timbral
C. Has great arpeggio functionality
D. Make custom controller templates for your vst’s.
E. and plenty of other features…

Yamaha is billing it as a Synth/Workstation, “their entry level Keyboard Product.” I stood next to one in GuitarCenter today. It caught my eye. I glanced at the price, $599. Because it was next to all the other Motif’s, and I had no idea what it was, I dismissed it. After I left the store, I really wondered what it was. So I researched it tonight… Pretty cool. You really have to analyze it, and make your own desicion, as it might be “overpriced,” in one eye, and “great deal,” in the other.

I don’t think it is, “overpriced,” I am not exactly sure it is, “incredible value.” It certainly is a less expensive synth/workstation, and you certainly do miss the big features of, “the $3,500 Motif,” at this price point.

I looked at many Synths/Controllers in Guitarcenter today, as this is my mission for this month!! I thought about this thread because, “wow!! The Novation Impulse, and the mk II felt great to my hands.” I thought they were awesome!! But I am not sure if I want to deal with Automap. I looked at the Casio XW G1, as I had been considering a hardware synth, that was in my budget, and I was a little, “less than impressed.” I did not see a Roland A500 Pro in the shop, which blew my mind, as I had specifically went to the store to, “showroom,” the Casio and that Roland. However, I realized that my thoughts about the other controllers on the market haven’t changed much over the years; which is, “the controllers priced below $200 seem to fall apart easily. One is better off saving up for something that they only have to purchase once, rather than purchase several of these disposable products.” I have been having this huge problem, “with audio cards falling apart, controllers falling apart, I am tired of it.” All over again, I am ready for a new audio card + a controller.

“So the Automap,” I agree its not great; although their controllers are well made, and feel awesome, compared to what else is out there.

Then there is this brand new, just released this month, or last Yamaha MX 49. Interesting!! Rompler, Controller, Audio Card, and??? Multi-timbrel VST… Wow!! Btw, it also has a bigger brother, “Yamaha MOX,” you can google… its nice too.

It’s possible to revert to un-automapped plugins with a bit of hacking. Not sure how this plays out across platforms, but I managed to edit the “parameter chunks” of one of my songs, and revert to the old plugin while keeping my envelopes intact.
Basically, I looked for the following text inside the ParameterChunk CDATA span (at the very end) and removed it:

Q29uc2VxdWVbP2rNfKXZxuheykWd6qDTGdFr7w=  

If this process turns out to be reliable enough it could perhaps even be turned into a tool

Edit: I tried this approach, and Renoise will not let me change the preset data while the plugin is running. So, that leaves us with the option of editing the song manually.
But it turns out that, in most cases it is sufficient to simply remove the label “(Automap)” from the PluginIdentifier tag
So, to revert to an un-automapped plugin (or go the other way, adding automap capabilities), just open the song using a compression utility like 7zip and then edit the Song.xml (search for “PluginIdentifier”)

Sure, I’ll try and explain what it does. Basically, Automap is a “server” type of software that you install on your PC or Mac. Keeping this analogy, the Novation hardware is connecting to this server can be considered clients, and you can connect multiple of these clients at the same time.

What’s smart about this is that Automap can then tell your hardware something about the software side of things. For example, Automap for the Remote can provide you with “auto-mapped” mixer features for many common DAWs (Renoise not included), and also, it’s able to wrap VST plugins in a shell so that Automap is able to tell the hardware which parameters are available (with the included editor, this is quite a powerful feature).

What’s problematic about Automap is, as vV points out, it’s a proprietary standard that only Novation’s products can understand. Also, DAW support is kind of limited (but I found a way to achieve the same functionality and more in Renoise by piggybacking, as mentioned). And last but not least, the missing Linux support.

Hate to necro-bump a thread here, but I’m looking into the Novation SL Zero. Does the VST wrapping in Automap work with Renoise?