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432 vs 440 Hz - wild conspiracy theory or truth?


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#1 phazze

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 14:09

What you think of this?

http://csglobe.com/m...2-hz-harmonics/

I'm kind of... half-convinced :)

at least it is easier for coding because C is at 512 Hz... (512-256-128-64-32-16-8-4-​2-1)

Edited by phazze, 23 August 2013 - 14:45.


#2 Ledger

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 14:49

Damn it taktik when are we getting that global tune feature in renoise ? Posted Image/>Posted Image/>Posted Image/>Posted Image/>


Kind of interesting idea. I wish they didn`t tell you which loop was which until the end in that youtube clip though.

The other thing to note is that with equal temperament tuning, notes are purposfully detuned away from perfect harmonics anyway. Orchestras supposedly can compensate for this, but a keyboard/ brass key instrument tuned to ET will have inherent dissonances even at A-432hz (if that is a special number)


One thing I have to say though is that some sound phenomenon can certainly have an effect on the brain/ mood. If you`ve ever tried alpha/gamma brainwave entrainment cds you may know what I`m talking about, though I`m not saying always positive or negative.


Anyhow I`ll try my electric piano at 432 and see if I prefer it, on just trying, it just sounds a little flat so far Posted Image

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#3 td6d

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 15:57

Anyhow I`ll try my electric piano at 432 and see if I prefer it, on just trying, it just sounds a little flat so far Posted Image


You have to tune everything down, not just the A key :lol:/>

I don't believe in all this spiritual natury bs. They both work and they can both be beautifull and awful.

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#4 phazze

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 16:15

Global tuning would be useful but for other purposes - if you need to detune your whole song for example to tune it with something else. But resampling would need to be rendered because realtime quality is probably not good enough.

Looking more into Pythagorean tuning (the one where A=432 Hz) - the drawback is that the fifths A-E and E-B, by flattening E, become almost as dissonant as the Pythagorean wolf fifth.
I don't have a clue what the above even means :D wolf fifth? sounds dangerous!

#5 Skolskoly

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 16:16

After skimming the article, I find myself a little uneasy with the argument, which plays Godwins Law and the Naturalistic Fallacy. Not that that disproves it or anything, but the fact that Goebbels supported 440hz seems like some wild urban legend that probably has nothing to back it up.

At the very least they could provide studies instead of having a video say "please look it up!"

#6 Rex

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 17:02

I would suggest that in 2013 there are numerous and far more immediate problems and popular misconceptions affecting the spiritual and artistic value of music than tuning -/+ 8Hz.

An accurate distribution of intervals is far more important for harmonically balanced music and the western ear is accustomed to an approximation of these anyway. Go check out some Persian music and see if it doesn't leave you a little dizzy!

#7 Ledger

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 18:57

You have to tune everything down, not just the A key Posted Image/>


:) yes my piano has a global tune so the whole thing sounded flattened immediatly to my ears, tuning just the A would certainly have been better for comedy value though! Could be worth a youtube response to the original video..

Global tuning would be useful but for other purposes - if you need to detune your whole song for example to tune it with something else. But resampling would need to be rendered because realtime quality is probably not good enough.


Yes I could see it could be useful.

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#8 vV

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 19:23

I suspect that tuning to 440Hz is done to be able to distinguish the frequencies better rather than this german nazi bullshit.
When i attempt to tune my guitar using 432Hz as base A, my tuning device has a lot of trouble distinguishing an A and a high G from eachother so to put it in other words:harmonics have other problematic aspects besides influencing the brain Posted Image
If you want to experiment with tones that do really affect your state of mind, use LFO's with a very low frequency scaling on the pitch of any particular polyphonic sample-based instrument using random offsets of minor tone adjustments and let them flow. I think you get a better idea of how to create mind influencing instruments.
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#9 Denim

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 20:09

sidenote: pulsating sine sub bass @ 33hz is said to make women horny. can anyone confirm?
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#10 img%

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 20:52

sidenote: pulsating sine sub bass @ 33hz is said to make women horny. can anyone confirm?


32 hz to be exactly i confirm :guitar:
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#11 centipus

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 23:29

wild conspiracy theory. I've spoken with several people who go on about this bs...they always speak about "pure" frequencies....ugh...like sine waves occur in the forest or something...and sounds always have *one* frequency in their minds...it's rediculous nonsense imo.
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#12 td6d

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 23:45

Don't forget to use a lot of thirds in your songs, you'll touch God.

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#13 Carbonthief

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:44

Don't forget to use a lot of thirds in your songs, you'll touch God.


Thirds for jesus, tritone for satan.

I actually saw this article a couple weeks ago. I thought it was a joke. It's a joke right?

"A=432 Hz, known as Verdi’s ‘A’ is an alternative tuning that is mathematically consistent with the universe. "

Mathematically consistent with the universe? What the fuck does that even mean? Utter bullshit; an insult to science to connect this in any way to real science. Now excuse me while I take my homeopathic medicine. It works better than real medicine, you see, because it has no active ingredients at all.
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#14 Conner_Bw

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:12

Beware The Ides Of Autotune Singularity
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#15 vV

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:42

sidenote: pulsating sine sub bass @ 33hz is said to make women horny. can anyone confirm?


Now, this is actually a useful contribution to the debate ;)
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#16 mars.64

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 19:38

Am I missing something?

I come from the djing world ... so how the frack does 8hz make a difference in thought, when dj's regularly bend up to 8% of the original tone anyway?

Maybe dj's are the real conspiracy.

sidenote: pulsating sine sub bass @ 33hz is said to make women horny. can anyone confirm?


Didn't Howard Stern confirm this? :P

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#17 phazze

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:42

I come from the djing world ... so how the frack does 8hz make a difference in thought, when dj's regularly bend up to 8% of the original tone anyway?
Maybe dj's are the real conspiracy.


David Guetta definitely looks like an outright conspiracy leader.

It is interesting though that note tuning is perfectly aligned to whole numbers for example C=256 Hz, A=432Hz, while in A=440 standard it is C=258.65 Hz and the same goes for other notes too - the whole scale is on whole numbers whereas regular scale it is with lots of decimals. As Hz are based on seconds and AFAIK seconds were originally defined based on solar day, it makes some sense that it is more "in tune" to nature rhythm but the argument that A=440 tuning sounds more clear and easier to distinguish is also quite valid.
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#18 drut_ums@yahoo.com

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:38

sidenote: pulsating sine sub bass @ 33hz is said to make women horny. can anyone confirm?


I always filter out below 35Hz. Now I understand why nothing happens...
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#19 revo11

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 14:42

The idea is stupid, the video is awesome, but not for the reasons suggested.

What the video shows is that the sand gets pushed to the nodes of the 2D surface when a resonant harmonic of the material gets played (when the frequency is off resonance, the surface does not absorb enough mechanical energy to push the sand much). So the frequencies reflect the properties of the material that black thing is made out of. If you used a different material, you'd get a different set of frequencies.

See: http://en.wikipedia....i/Node_(physics)
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#20 Lukast

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 20:29

this blog made me smile
... also on this subject.

Personally I tune everything by ear so I have no idea with the hertzes
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#21 fluence

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:06

Equal temperament has been around for some centuries. http://en.wikipedia....ual_temperament

it's almost imposible to get chords to sound consonant over the complete frequency range. Also how would you make chords sound dissonant, to create anxiety and fear in your harmonies?

This points us at, "all listen to divine chords all day and watch women get horny over 32hz frequencies!"

I think people will become quite indifferent soon.

#22 oneunkind

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:38

Shit didn't work. I tuned and tuned and didn't get high at all.
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sounds but not music


#23 delt

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:25

at least it is easier for coding because C is at 512 Hz...


513.737473681 actually

....and about that experiment on youtube.... what about the exact precise size of that sheet on which the powder (flour? sugar?) is placed? and what about the (average) size of each grain in that powder? and the distance between the speaker and the other components? etc etc?

not (yet) convinced... :/
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#24 Ozego

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 21:05

Forget frequencies! The real problem here is music made on instruments from GM wood. If you listen to GMO made sounds it might alter your genes and cause your children to become autistic! Do you really want GM sounds reverberate through your DNA!? BAN GM MUSIC TODAY!
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#25 Frank Baumgartner

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:00

I would like to bring in some important aspects into this discussion.

My personal opinion: pitch shifting all notes down by 8Hz (which yields A to 432 Hertz) is ... esotheric. It is only pitch shifting.
*BUT* nevertheless there are some pretty convincing comparisons/examples around about this ...

The problem in my eyes is... "A432" is often confused and/or mixed with switching between pythagorean and equi-tempered scale. And this is really doing the magic.

People are talking about A 432 but i think often they are really having pythagorean in mind.
Here is some technical article including sound examples http://www.audiosite...nd-theory1.html

I think it would be awesome to be able to do our own scale based pitching adjustments inside renoise, and i'm not only talking about global tuning but really be able to change the scale.
For pythagorean, the settings for C key would be these:

Posted Image

Currently there is a LUA plugin (http://www.renoise.c...ols/scl-to-xrni) for renoise which can do all kinds of scale modifications (scl import) to samples,
however there seems NO possibility for finetuning or scale modification when working with VST/AU plugins. :-(

Edited by Frank Baumgartner, 13 October 2013 - 13:26.

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