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New Tool (2.8) : Velocity Pan Delay Automation


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#1 Ledger

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 00:34

New alpha that I`ve been wanting to do for a little while. It`s a bit hacky but works better than I expected. However it needs some alpha testing before I fill it out with final features (pan and delay columns). (pan and delay columns now supported)

renoise 3.1:

Attached File  ledger.scripts.VelocityPanDelayAutomation_V0.62.xrnx   13.13KB   78 downloads



Test with Care at your own risk:
-----------------------------
3.0 Beta Version:

Attached File  ledger.scripts.VelocityPanDelayAutomation_V0.61.xrnx   13.12KB   244 downloads

2.8 version:

Attached File  ledger.scripts.VelocityPanDelayAutomation_Rns280_V0.58.xrnx   13.12KB   238 downloads
---------------------------
----------------------------
Basically it allows you to control the the velocity pan and delay values of notes already in a track from the automaton editor. Either the selected column or all columns in the pattern_track can be chosen.

To use it you use:

Keyboard Shortcut:
`VPD` Toggle Envelopes and Control Panel

(You will need to navigate to the VEL, PAN or DLY automation which should be enabled) and you are then presented with what is shown in the following screen shots. While the tool is running the Control Panel GUI stays open, this has been done as like I say the tool is a bit hacky and the control panel gives you confirmation it is enabled plus some features to work with it.


Vel Pan Dly 600 x 350.png


1. [Re-initialize]
For when the tool starts to behave funny (hopefully not too often now, but testing may help with this)

2. [Refresh Current]
Refreshes the envelope manually after you have been changing things in the pattern editor. This will also bee done automatically every time you change column or track in the pattern editor, but this is there for the occasions you may need it.

3.[Safe Undo]
This stops the tools notifiers firing when you do an undo operation. If you are having trouble with the renoise undo then you can use this which can work better without having to close the tool down

3.[Safe Redo]
Similar explanation to undo

4.Set All In Col slider
If you want a quick way to change all the velocity columns to the same value in the selected column use this. (Note this slider can be unresponsive at times, particularly if changing all columns in the track, clicking roughly where you want it to go can be quicker than sliding it in these cases)

5.Apply To All Cols Checkbox
Will apply the current velocity envelope to all columns when active, Also applies the Set All In Col slider to all columns.
Note when using the automation with this enabled, only the lines with notes on are copied whereas with the Set All In Col slider every note in the pattern_track gets effected.

6.[X]
Closer X, worth mentioning as when GUI is closed, all added devices and envelopes are removed and the tool is de-activated. Using the toggle short-cut to close has the same effect.



Once the tool is enabled you will see the Vel Pan Dly device appear at the first position in the track DSPs, this is how the envelopes are created. You will need to navigate to the VEL automation which should be enabled. Now you can effect the notes in your track from this automation. As you change to each track you will have to navigate to the VEL parameter for the first time you are on that track. Unfortunately there is no way for the script to do this automatically though I have asked for the feature in the API thread, because of this.

Shortcuts for some of the Control panel functions available also, just search for `VPD` in the renoise shortcuts list .

changelog.
--------------------------------------------------------------
v0.61 - Fixed bug where changing tracks would not always update envelopes properly on previous track
v0.58 - bug fixed where changing patterns on a group send or master track would change the view to automation when the tool was running:
v0.57 - bug fixes for issues when changing patterns or adding a new track could crash the running tool.
v0.56 - pan and delay columns now supported:
--------------------------------------------------------------


Edited by Ledger, 01 March 2017 - 20:57.

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#2 midi error

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:42

Wow, this is a fantastic idea!! I would be glad to test it and report back, excellent work

#3 Ledger

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 15:30

Wow, this is a fantastic idea!! I would be glad to test it and report back, excellent work


Finding it really useful already here already, the inspiration came after watching some Timothy Allan groove3 videos where he shows how important little volume and delay offsets can make a huge difference to the sound of a beat. Not quite so easy/ comfortable in renoise without these envelopes which most piano rolls have as standard.

thanks for testing, keep me updated.

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#4 danoise

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 17:07

Not quite so easy/ comfortable in renoise without these envelopes which most piano rolls have as standard.


Here, I just want to point out something, a trick I've used from time to time:
If you can live with tick-level timing, there is actually a good "groove template" workflow in Renoise, possible via group tracks

* put the drum track you wish to apply shuffle to inside a group track
* add tick delay commands (Qxx) to the groove track
* copy/alias the group track throughout the song, or wherever you need it

Basically, everything which is entered into a group track is applied to it's child tracks. So it's possible to create "hierarchical groove templates" on a tick level
But with panning or volume, this technique wouldn't be optimal - the Pxx (Pan) and Lxx (Level) commands would affect a sound through it's playback, and not just from the onset.

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#5 Ledger

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 17:53

* put the drum track you wish to apply shuffle to inside a group track
* add tick delay commands (Qxx) to the groove track
* copy/alias the group track throughout the song, or wherever you need it


Handy tip! thanks. I remember doing something similar sometimes before renoise changed from simple tick timing. The trouble being it had to be global back then.

I just tried this :

----
-Q02
----
-Q02

repeating on a beat at 120bpm, 12ticks per line , 4lpb and it adds a nice instant swing.

However the delays I am talking about are not just about swing or groove applied as a template in this way. In the Ableton vids I saw , it was about nudging notes here and there by fractions before and after the quantized timeline, doing it by ear to get the various hits / elements gelling together. This going hand in hand with modifying ADSR envelopes and note lengths at tiny values too.

Admittedly in the PR these nudges are done by hand directly, but in renoise it needs to be done by pattern commands currently. The velocity envelopes are the other PR tool in the arsenal aswell.

Anyhow I shall be experimenting with the Q command too now Posted Image


If you`re intrested to see the vids I`m taking about there is a free 30 day promotion for the site (not sure if it`s still valid but might be worth a shot).

CODE:

http://www.kvraudio....2151&start=3540
From KVR`s Bargain thread

30 days free Groove3.com membership using the code RESIDENT30 at groove3.com/code - from Resident Advisor's email newsletter


SITE:

Tim Allans videos on groove3
http://www.groove3.c...php?authorid=15

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#6 joule

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 22:56

I've thought about making a similar tool, but for any effect value (probably stored in the dsp title). Any chance you will expand this to a more general dsp like that?

PS. Portamendos and volume slides could be interpreted as the envelope curve, instead of just pasting the values. Special cases for arp and vibrato effects might also be fitting.

Edited by joule, 27 October 2013 - 22:59.


#7 Ledger

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 18:58

I've thought about making a similar tool, but for any effect value (probably stored in the dsp title). Any chance you will expand this to a more general dsp like that?

PS. Portamendos and volume slides could be interpreted as the envelope curve, instead of just pasting the values. Special cases for arp and vibrato effects might also be fitting.


Maybe stuff like this will appear as the tool progresses, just want to get things as reliable as possible first.

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#8 PepeladZ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 21:54

Ledger, nice tool would be!

I understood that the main objective for it is to visually assign values...
It is not really clear that drawing automation only works when track has some notes and that tool operates only on available notes which mean you can't add automation where no notes present.

Other than that - make is a DSP device and everything is cool.

#9 Ledger

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 18:28

I understood that the main objective for it is to visually assign values...
It is not really clear that drawing automation only works when track has some notes and that tool operates only on available notes which mean you can't add automation where no notes present.


Thanks, I`ll make sure I make that a bit clearer in the description.

Other than that - make is a DSP device and everything is cool.


I was going to suggest you put this in the ideas and suggestions forum, but see you already have. Agree it would be great to have a renoise implementation of this.

http://forum.renoise...tioncontroller/

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#10 Ledger

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:02

v0.56 pan and delay columns now supported:

http://forum.renoise...post__p__299661

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#11 Ledger

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 18:04

v0.57
-bug fixes for issues when changing patterns or adding a new track could crash the running tool.

http://forum.renoise...post__p__299661

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#12 Ledger

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 19:00

0.58 bug fixed where changing patterns on a group send or master track would change the view to automation when the tool was running:

http://forum.renoise...post__p__299661

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#13 kolacell

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:24

possible to update that for 3.0? its just another basic feature that every daw should have...

Edited by kolacell, 13 January 2014 - 08:58.

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#14 Ledger

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 16:14

possible to update that for 3.0? its just another basic feature that every daw should have...


3.0 compatible v0.6 now up in first post, let me know if any bugs/ probs:

http://forum.renoise...post__p__299661

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#15 kolacell

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 18:16

works flawlessly - many thx for that ledger!

#16 Ledger

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 20:00

v0.61 - Fixed bug where changing tracks would not always update envelopes properly on previous track


http://forum.renoise...post__p__299661

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#17 toblerpone

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 10:04

I was thinking about this tool, and I had an idea how to have some basic piano roll features in renoise via automation envelopes.
Automation points could be used for editing the Note On and Off positions of a note column. If we use the MIDI instrument control device as the automation source, we could even give human readable names to the automation (column 1, 2, 3) (since the displayed parameter is 0-127).
We'd get zooming (don't forget, it's pattern-consistent), an overview of the track and pattern_track, high precision click and drag, and a simple high-precision connection of automation to note starts/ends - with a simple copy-paste.
Switching between automations and tracks can be done very quickly with the keyboard, so a fast comparison and adjustment is also possible
The tool could adjust the values of the parameters in the automation too, so that you wouldn't change the pitch by accident if you don't want to.
Maybe in the future we might also get vertical lock for the automation envelopes as well, and the cursor positions and selection via the API - to scroll the pattern accordingly, and have a loop selections function.



#18 Ledger

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 11:58

To be honest it`s not something I`d be inclined to do myself but please do hack away/ borrow from my tool if you like; though I can`t remember how tidy the code is for this one. 

 

If piano roll (alternative note view) type features are going to only come about by scripters in renoise, my main hope would be for some sort of more advanced graphics framework to be incorperated with Lua.  I`m sure people could come up with all sorts of notation/drum/harmonic interfaces. 

 

Reminds me that someone posted a framework to integrate internet browsers for more graphical stuff. I don`t know if anything has been done with that yet though? 


Edited by Ledger, 02 June 2015 - 11:59.

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#19 toblerpone

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 17:04

No, not yet, no use of that AJAX connection.

 

And definitely not writing that tool anytime soon as well, haha, but I thought it fit the topic of the thread.



#20 Ledger

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 18:56

I see :)

 

I`ll have to look at the AJAX connection thing again sometime myself too. 


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#21 Zhu

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 18:14

It doesn't seem to work for me right now in my current version of Renoise. I use a Mac as well, so don't know how much that influences things.

 

Edit: I found your script toggle via Tools > Ledger's Scripts > Vel Automation. I'm a dummy. Thanks for making such a great tool


Edited by Zhu, 03 September 2018 - 18:18.


#22 Ledger

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 18:34

It doesn't seem to work for me right now in my current version of Renoise. I use a Mac as well, so don't know how much that influences things.

 

Edit: I found your script toggle via Tools > Ledger's Scripts > Vel Automation. I'm a dummy. Thanks for making such a great tool

 

You may be interested in the sequencer tool that I made more recently, which can do the same sort of thing within its own GUI + more

 

The third row down has the 5 buttons:

 

[Pitch] [Note + Vol] [Volume] [Pan] [Delay]

 

post-428-0-22725900-1514226597.png

 

http://forum.renoise...r-wip-dec-2017/

 

The latest beta in this post adds automation DSP devices into the pattern editor too:

 

http://forum.renoise...e-2#entry371835


Edited by Ledger, 03 September 2018 - 18:38.

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