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Accept bitcoin as payment?


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#1 jahadu

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:04

Well, simple as that, are there plans on accepting bitcoins as a payment method? I for one would gladly pay with btc!

#2 dblue

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:22

Sorry, but we have absolutely no plans to accept Bitcoin at any point in the foreseeable future. Bitcoin is a totally unstable and volatile currency that simply isn't ready for mainstream usage or acceptance yet. It's hugely unpredictable and a pain in the ass to deal with.

(Technically, it's not really up to us anyway... You'd better go nag our payment processor Avangate about such things)
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#3 jahadu

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:49

Okelidokelie, credit card it is.

#4 Syflom

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:25

This page says what's accepted. http://www.renoise.c...egistration_faq

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#5 splajn

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 11:22

Sorry, but we have absolutely no plans to accept Bitcoin at any point in the foreseeable future. Bitcoin is a totally unstable and volatile currency that simply isn't ready for mainstream usage or acceptance yet. It's hugely unpredictable and a pain in the ass to deal with.

(Technically, it's not really up to us anyway... You'd better go nag our payment processor Avangate about such things)


Thank god not everyone have this attitude, because with it, it would never become stable it would make it moment 22. Humanity really needs a currency outside of the private banking system and their governments.

Just like we needed the internet. Ofcourse what you say is not a problem as there are workarounds like Coinbase and Bitpay making it 100-200% cheaper to use than creditcards.

However if it continues the way it have it will be as stable as the Euro in only 4 years.
http://www.coinometr...om/bitcoin/bvix

I hope I will be able to upgrade with bitcoin when I have to and I would rather se you take bitcoins directly.
Otherwise I will probably just wait until it is possible :(
Come to think of it, it is with https://www.joinsnapcard.com/ it would be possible, however the advantages will not be given to you guys.
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#6 dblue

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 18:11

Thank god not everyone have this attitude

Yes, I'm aware that my personal attitude is a bit negative about this at the moment. However, I do think that Bitcoin is a really interesting concept, and I hope that it will eventually stabilize and be accepted as a "true" currency – one which the average, non-tech-savvy person can easily and seamlessly use in their daily life.

When I can connect a Bitcoin wallet to my PayPal account, or spend Bitcoins directly on Amazon.com, or buy groceries at a big supermarket with some kind of Bitcoin swipe card, then I will consider it stable and accepted (as will the rest of the world, I'm sure). But it simply isn't there yet, imho, and from a business point of view I don't think it's very practical for us to join the cause and fight for Bitcoin.

Quite frankly, even if Renoise did start accepting Bitcoin payments directly, we are such a tiny entity with an insanely niche product that I doubt it would make any difference whatsoever (well, obviously it would make a difference to you, but I think you know what I mean). On the other hand, if payment processors like Avangate, FastSpring, and so on, could be convinced to accept Bitcoins, then you would kill a shitload of birds with one stone, which could in turn have a huge domino effect and convince other larger operations to get behind it. If our Avangate webshop accepted Bitcoin, then we wouldn't even need to care about any of the risks involved, or the politics behind the whole movement, or anything else... it would simply be business as usual.

#7 vV

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 20:13

Just like we needed the internet. Ofcourse what you say is not a problem as there are workarounds like Coinbase and Bitpay making it 100-200% cheaper to use than creditcards.

Not everything in the world has to be paid by creditcard. The US made this a particular habit, but in a lot of other countries, people are paying with bank passes (chip) which is electronic payment in a secured way.
I suspect this kind of payment is getting regular on a faster pace worldwide than bitcoin will turn into a regular payment type.
The same card next year will also involve NFC to conduct small payments (up to 25 bucks) without a secure pincode initiation.
The reason why i don't see bitcoin coming that soon is simply because Bitcoin transactions are not transparent (people can hide their identity behind bitcoins) and governments usually do not allow such kind of payment transactions on the long run. Currently Bitcoin is also abused to blackmail people, a recent released and infecting encryption virus invaded countless amounts of computers encrypting valuable documents blackmailing the users to pay ransom in bitcoin else they will not have their documents restored.
As long as such opportunities exist, i don't see such payment solution coming to a world wide market anytime soon.
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#8 Carbonthief

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 23:26

Ok ok but what about dogecoin?
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#9 splajn

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 10:03

The reason why i don't see bitcoin coming that soon is simply because Bitcoin transactions are not transparent (people can hide their identity behind bitcoins) and governments usually do not allow such kind of payment transactions on the long run. Currently Bitcoin is also abused to blackmail people, a recent released and infecting encryption virus invaded countless amounts of computers encrypting valuable documents blackmailing the users to pay ransom in bitcoin else they will not have their documents restored.



I see what you mean but Bitcoin as it is today is the most transparent money system created.
Every transaction is public and stored on the blockchain and can be followed, more so than money in the banking system.
Almost all exchanges follow KYC & AML, except for one or two very small exchanges, these will be shut down.

Its just protects people privacy and if you think that is a bad thing because you have nothing to hide.
You need to think outside of yourself.

Because it´s not about you, its about your politicians, your police, your judges, your journalists etc.
Its about other nefarious people finding out secrets about them, 50% of all people have cheated and when this is one of your politicians or your military who is in position to make decisions that will affect your country this kind information can and is used to push them into compliance and getting favours.

Bitcoin is already here its accepted by politicians.

If you think its good with totalitarianism, dictators, love war and oppressive governments and corruption, than please by all means do not support Bitcoin.
Bitcoin makes these things harder to do.

If you think humanity are better of with less wars, do not need any more totalitarian governments, etc than learn how the ability to control peoples money and its production has been used for thousands of years and is used today to oppress billions of people (I´m not talking about taxes) and used in order to prevent people from changing corrupt governments into good governments, fund huge armies instead of healthcare, infrastructure etc.

Bitcoin empowers people, if you believe that most people are evil, be against Bitcoin.
If you think that most people want less wars, smaller armies, more democracy than you should look more
closely on how Bitcoin massively contributes to this.

The understanding of money and its role in shaping the future of humanity is missing from education and as long as it is,
people are satisfied with using only private bank money because they have really no idea of how their money is produced (only as debt) and what the consequences of that system is.
But I will tell you its with mathematical certainity 100% ownership of people and their countries in the hands of the owners of the big private banks, those who produce the money, only as debt.

When buying Renoise, you should not have to provide identity.
Would that not be a totalitarian society in which you have to provide identity to use your own money you worked for to buy things like a music program?

Identity should be asked for things that may harm people like, alkohol, drugs, medication etc.

The blackmail program used to function using other payment types.
Banning Bitcoin simply because its sometimes abused would be like banning internet because its sometimes abused, or the fire or cars because someone is abusing them.
You will have nothing with that kind of reasoning.
A good quote but a little hard quote on this.

"Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither."

-Benjamin Franklin

There are so many benefits for humanity but it requires a lot of knowledge and you guys clearly have done little research.

Let me give you some quotes. You might be surprised who said these things:

Every informed person needs to know about Bitcoin because it might be one of the world’s most important developments.

-Leon Louw, Nobel Peace prize nominee

"I'm a BIG fan of Bitcoin.
Regulation of money supply needs to be depoliticized.”

-Al Gore, Nobel peace prize winner, Former Vice president USA.


"Bitcoin is the beginning of something great.
A currency without a government, something necessary and imperative.”

-Nassim Taleb


"Bitcoin is Gold 2.0. It's is a huge, huge, huge, huge deal."

-Chamath Palihapitiya, longest running CEO of Facebook.

"You can't stop things like Bitcoin"

-MCAfee

"The future is decentralization"


"Sustainability requires diversity.
We will NEVER have a stable structural monetary system with a single monopoly of a single type of currency. No matter who manages it."

Bernard Lietar, one of the worlds top experts on monetary systems also helped create the EURO currency.

You would get publicity, and free business simply by accepting Bitcoin.

WAVES accept payment with Bitcoin.
http://www.soundonso...ws?NewsID=16849
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#10 autoaim.cfg

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 20:24

What I would like to know is when the Renoise team are FINALLY going to start accepting tulip bulbs as payment.

Seriously guys, tulip bulbs are a totally stable and viable currency now. It's the future of business and it's totally going to change the way the market works. By accepting tulip bulbs you firmly place yourselves at the forefront of the economic revolution and you'll get loads of PR by showing everyone how business savvy you are. Yes, I am sadly aware that there will be naysayers out there who refuse to embrace tulip bulbs, but you really should go for it. Tulip bulbs can only go up uP UP! There's literally no risk involved, whatsoever. :w00t:

Edited by autoaim.cfg, 20 January 2014 - 20:25.

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#11 splajn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 16:43

What I would like to know is when the Renoise team are FINALLY going to start accepting tulip bulbs as payment.

Seriously guys, tulip bulbs are a totally stable and viable currency now. It's the future of business and it's totally going to change the way the market works. By accepting tulip bulbs you firmly place yourselves at the forefront of the economic revolution and you'll get loads of PR by showing everyone how business savvy you are. Yes, I am sadly aware that there will be naysayers out there who refuse to embrace tulip bulbs, but you really should go for it. Tulip bulbs can only go up uP UP! There's literally no risk involved, whatsoever. :w00t:/>


If one license of Renoise is EUR 58.00.
How many tulipbulbs will that be if one Amaryllis Bulb is € 6,50. Four bulbs are € 17,50 and 10 bulbs are € 30,00?
+ shipping?
http://www.bulbi.nl/.../amaryllis.html

#12 vV

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 20:53

If one license of Renoise is EUR 58.00.
How many tulipbulbs will that be if one Amaryllis Bulb is € 6,50. Four bulbs are € 17,50 and 10 bulbs are € 30,00?
+ shipping?
http://www.bulbi.nl/.../amaryllis.html


There used to be a time where people could buy houses from tulips...
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#13 Garf

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 21:07

We dont even know who created the bitcoin system, it could be a criminal who suddenly pulls the rug.
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, its gambling/speculation.

#14 vV

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 22:15

We dont even know who created the bitcoin system, it could be a criminal who suddenly pulls the rug.

I suspect it is a bit similar to bittorrent:there is no one server, serving all, but loads of seeds continuing keep things available.
If you design something popular, it will go beyond control of bringing it down unless it is being massively brought down by governments if no country would approve the system.
Since i don't hear any government shouting yet, i doubt someone can easily pull any plug here.
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#15 Conner_Bw

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 00:12

Posted Image


Bitcoin is a predictable currency. That's it's main feature. As time goes on, people with coins *now* have more coins than anyone will ever have in the future.

I repeat, everyone who got in on it early has a lot of coin for very little effort.

There are a lot of good things about the concept of a crypto currency as a replacement for "the gold standard," or other interesting intellectual concepts to ponder, but why does it have to be Bitcoin? Why not Namcoin? Litecoin? Mastercoin? Or something conceptually different like Freicoin?

The reason Bitcoin enthusiasts promote the shit out of this currency is because a small group have more coins now than there will be produced in the next 20 years. They are tried of buying overpriced drugs (compared to their street value) and porn... Mostly, they want to cash out and make big "hockey stick investment" bucks.

Finally, with all the Eduard Snowdown and NSA can hack the shit out of pretty much everything revelations out in the open now, I find it suspicious that what was viewed as a plague and the downfall of central banking is now openly embraced by the Bank Of America?

Pass.

Edited by Conner_Bw, 22 January 2014 - 00:12.

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#16 Carbonthief

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:08

Finally, with all the Eduard Snowdown and NSA can hack the shit out of pretty much everything revelations out in the open now, I find it suspicious that what was viewed as a plague and the downfall of central banking is now openly embraced by the Bank Of America?

Pass.


I was not aware BoA was now openly embracing bitcoin. That's almost a sure sign people are going to get fucked.
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#17 splajn

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:03

Posted Image


Bitcoin is a predictable currency. That's it's main feature. As time goes on, people with coins *now* have more coins than anyone will ever have in the future.

I repeat, everyone who got in on it early has a lot of coin for very little effort.

There are a lot of good things about the concept of a crypto currency as a replacement for "the gold standard," or other interesting intellectual concepts to ponder, but why does it have to be Bitcoin? Why not Namcoin? Litecoin? Mastercoin? Or something conceptually different like Freicoin?

The reason Bitcoin enthusiasts promote the shit out of this currency is because a small group have more coins now than there will be produced in the next 20 years. They are tried of buying overpriced drugs (compared to their street value) and porn... Mostly, they want to cash out and make big "hockey stick investment" bucks.

Finally, with all the Eduard Snowdown and NSA can hack the shit out of pretty much everything revelations out in the open now, I find it suspicious that what was viewed as a plague and the downfall of central banking is now openly embraced by the Bank Of America?

Pass.


It does not have to be bitcoin, you are free to use the coin you like the most, cryptocurrency introduce freedom and Bitcoin opens the gates. If bitcoin can not open the gates it will probably be very hard for any other cryptocurrency to open the gates. But who knows, bitcoin might fail and be replaced. However if bitcoin fails and it can be fixed with an update it will be fixed, there are to many developers who have a stake in fixing such a bug, so their bitcoins do not end up worthless.

Bank of America did not embrace bitcoin.
"Bank of America says their analysis estimates Bitcoin's worth to be a maximum of $1,300".
By doing this they send out the message to people to not accept or buy bitcoin if its value is above $1300 which in our big world is still very very low. The calculation was based on pure BS.

If the value of bitcoin goes from $130 to $1300 in one week its probably a bubble. If it goes from $130 to $1300 in 1 years time it can be exponential growth which is very common in nature.

If bitcoin is to become stable and not easily manipulated it needs to become worth $10.000-$100.000 but by saying its not worth more than $1300 they send the signal that as soon as it becomes more worth people should sell their coins.
They came out with that report as the value started to approach $1200 to make people scared that its over valued. Which at the time might had been true or might not had been true. The true value is what people give it and most people have no idea what bitcoin or the fiat money they use really is and the differences.

#18 autoaim.cfg

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 16:12

The reason Bitcoin enthusiasts promote the shit out of this currency is because a small group have more coins now than there will be produced in the next 20 years. They are tried of buying overpriced drugs (compared to their street value) and porn... Mostly, they want to cash out and make big "hockey stick investment" bucks.


That's the problem with Bitcoin. It's a proof of concept tech demo of how a cyryptocurrency might work that got hijacked by libertarian loons and Get Rich Quick scammers and taken way too far. Perhaps some day in the future we'll see a viable cryptocurrency emerge, but it sure won't be Bitcoin. AND... someone's gonna be left holding the Hot Potato when the bottom drops out of the Magic The Gathering Online eXchange (Mt.Gox) and the bubble pops. In the mean time we're stuck with "Bitcoin enthusiasts" trying desperately to beg, plead, mislead and badger people left and right so they can offload some of their essentially worthless "coins". Frankly, if someone offered to pay me for my services in Bitcoin I'd terminate my professional relationship with them.

Posted Image
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#19 splajn

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:32

As people here points out, yup there are problem with Bitcoin.
Early adopters might have way to much, its not possible to mine without asic making it centralized and for the rich, etc.

The biggest problem however might be some news I read today on reddit and just read that Sweden will tax it like a commodity which makes it practically useless in that country as it would make it impossible to use it as a currency. Just like Norway did, not sure if finland have the same laws?
http://www.pfhub.com/sweden-will-treat-bitcoin-as-an-asset-not-a-currency-311/

I don´t think its value will simply go down to zero over night, but it could become impossible for any cryptocurrency experiment to work in Europe no matter how good its possible features might be in the next year/s when those kinds of laws are passed in more countries, and the values of them could go down the drain.

For the small amount of development time you have, I would rather you guys kept focusing into getting Renoise 3 out, and more features for coming versions of Renoise, than something that is a gamble for you and might turn out to be wasted time.

#20 pottering

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:33

People were already arrested by governments, for doing things with cryptocurrency that said govs didn't like, I don't know why people keep trying to sell this talk that Bitcoin is "safe" from a gov's(or politician's, or a dictator's) interference.

And what that graph "bitcoins over time" tells me is that Bitcoin comes with economic inequality built right into the currency, in fact, seems it is one of its main features. No wonder right-libertarians love it.

#21 Garf

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:27

We dont even know who created the bitcoin system, it could be a criminal who suddenly pulls the rug.


This is how I imagined it :rolleyes:

"Mt. Gox's website remains inaccessible, and the exchange appears to have deleted its entire Twitter feed."

http://www.theverge....ox-goes-offline

Blame it on a bug, yeah right.
Buy hard assets instead of this crap.

#22 hektic

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 19:26

I've been a Renoise customer since... well I don't know. Maybe 8 years or something. A good while. How come you guys haven't asked me to help you with your payments? I've brought this up before! I did start Canada's first specifically e-commerce focused merchant account provider in 2001. I've been working with a network of European acquirers for over a decade with a specific focus in multi-currency. Next time you are feeling like revisiting the payments send me a PM! =-) And now to include a superfluous link to Merchant Accounts.ca for good measure... (thank you google for 0.001% pagerank relevance boost from the thread comments).

P.S, I remember someone here on the forum years ago bringing up bitcoin for investing. I wish I could remember his name. He used to be really active on the forum. I think it was about $20 per coin at the time. I assume he's not active on the forum anymore because he's busy flying around on his private jet!

Edited by hektic, 02 March 2014 - 19:27.


#23 vV

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:31

P.S, I remember someone here on the forum years ago bringing up bitcoin for investing. I wish I could remember his name. He used to be really active on the forum. I think it was about $20 per coin at the time. I assume he's not active on the forum anymore because he's busy flying around on his private jet!


If he was one of the Mt Gox investors, i highly doubt that :P
Their bankruptcy even turned world news now.
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#24 georgem

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 16:17

Sorry, but we have absolutely no plans to accept Bitcoin at any point in the foreseeable future. Bitcoin is a totally unstable and volatile currency that simply isn't ready for mainstream usage or acceptance yet. It's hugely unpredictable and a pain in the ass to deal with.

(Technically, it's not really up to us anyway... You'd better go nag our payment processor Avangate about such things)

Look at it this way.

 

Every currency, every company share, everything that is new and enters a market, and undergoes "price discovery" is going to have fluctuations of the kind you see in bitcoin.

 

And even if you have a problem with fluctuations, you could use one of the many bitcoin exchanges / merchant systems that would convert BTC to fiat immediately and still give us bitcoiners the ability to pay in the currency of our choice.

 

So bitcoin's fluctuations are no argument at all.

 

Please inform yourself:

 

https://bitpay.com

 

Thanks, a fan!


If he was one of the Mt Gox investors, i highly doubt that tongue.gif
Their bankruptcy even turned world news now.

 

What about all the scammers who used fiat money (Dollars, Euros, Swiss francs) to scam investors (madoff, etc)?

 

Do we blame the dollar for what madoff did? 

 

Since when do we blame the currency a scammer uses instead the scammer himself?

 

^_^



#25 radian

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 20:50

lol


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