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Loop Point Automation

loop point loop-point automation

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#1 Achenar

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 19:16

EDIT - Putting the new video here too.



After going back and reading through the various threads over the years and looking at the ideas and suggestions, I think I've come up with something that should address all concerns.

renoise3-bitloop.png

The first thing to bear in mind is that this needs to work all the way down to looping individual waveform samples (see above). It would be rather complicated to send time-values to a loop-point with this level of precision, so instead it is moved forwards or backwards in time relative to its original position. The second thing to note is that you may also want to:

1) Move both loop-points together
2) Move them at different speeds
3) Move them in different directions
4) All of the above

Taking this into account, I believe the following approach would work best:

renoise3-loopautomation.png

Selecting from the Snap menu changes the time-value that the loop-points will move to: Samples, Seconds, Whole (%), Markers, Beats, 8th, 16th, 32nd, 64th, 128th. The Range parameter alters the numerical range of the sliders and will be particularly useful for hardware mod-wheels. With the Link option enabled, the Start and End parameters will move around together, requiring the use of only one slider.

The Loop type is inherited from the Sample Properties, but can also be changed here. The icon just after this toggles whether loop-points can cross over each other, swapping their Start and End statuses. The second icon toggles Link-mode behaviour in the following way: if a loop-point reaches the start or end of the sample, the other loop-point will continue moving towards it, decreasing the loop size (loops will, of course, remain at least one sample apart at all times).


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#2 Terada

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 20:37

+ 100000000000000000000!!!!

So long awaited feature!

Please, give it a go!


#3 centipus

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 21:46

oh man oh man I'd love this!! Good ideas Achenar.
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#4 TanookiMonk

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 22:28

This could be sooo awesome !!!

#5 Djeroek

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 00:35

in previous Renoise versions there were hackarounds which let you automate loop markers, am waiting for one in Renoise 3 so you can link up the macro controls to start & end :drummer:

#6 revo11

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:47

What hackarounds?

op-1 has lfo-able loop points and I can confirm they're pretty sweet to have.
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#7 KURTZ

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 10:07

+1
!
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#8 DapperB

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:06

This is the most tantalizing thing about Renoise! Turning off interpolation, loading a low kHz sample and noodling around with the loop markers creates the most amazing tones, but apart from sampling the output it can't be captured or automated. For me this feature would be the holy grail of samplerdom. I've built machines in Reaktor which do this but I can't get it to produce sample-level reporting about the current sample so it's hard to control in the way that I want to (and also I'm not talented enough).

If loop automation could be implemented like Achenor suggests it would open up so many sonic vistas.

One proviso I would suggest is that the resolution of control needs to stay as high as possible - sweeping smoothly and precisely through a range as low as a millisecond and then all the way down to the single sample level needs to be possible. Nobody wants the resolution to crap out just when the interesting ultra-short loop zone has been reached. I'm sure a lot of people want the feature for wavetable-style pad creation, rather than beat chopping effects, and this goal requires careful attention to the resolution that is implemented!
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#9 Achenar

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:43

This is exactly what I had in mind when considering how a device like this should work. Values in Renoise are stored as 32-bit numbers, so having access to high resolution via the Range parameter isn't an issue. One thing worth bearing in mind though is that when you get down to the individual sample level, you get different sounding results depending on the Sample Rate you're using.
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#10 midi error

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 11:13

I get the impression that by the time this is actually implemented, I will have lost a) interest in the idea B) my marbles or c) the will to live

Saying this as someone who was waited YEARS to mess around with loop points in renoise. I`d recommend using NI Battery.

Edited by midi error, 23 January 2014 - 11:13.

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#11 renderful

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 13:32

This is a great idea.

Numerology can do this with its built-in sampler. The results are anything from crazy sampling down to granular synthesis.
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#12 BpZ

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 13:50

Yes!!!
This is an old idea.
I hope R3 will DO IT.
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#13 Achenar

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 17:05



I made a video going into more detail and updating some ideas.
You can download the sounds, music, narration and title card used in the video here: http://duncanhemingw...loads/1-SLA.zip


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#14 dblue

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 17:42

I made a video

Superb! Nice work :]

#15 danoise

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 18:01

Haha, you actually used Protracker in this demo? :yeah:

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#16 Achenar

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 18:11

Yup, took a while to figure out how to transfer the samples in the right format and then record the Amiga video, but it was worth it.


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#17 1j1

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 19:16

+ 100000000000000000000!!!!

So long awaited feature!

Please, give it a go!


+ + 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!!!! :panic:

This would be awesome. I was just trying to do this last night with various samplers. Got it sort of working in Kontakt (Source - Modulation - External - Constant - Drag and Drop Midi CC - Automate), but I'd prefer/love it in renoise.

I'll award many virtual respects if you/anyone implements this. :yeah:
I have just come back to renoise and am seemingly just flooding the board with requests/(what some might see as)-complaints, but, overall, renoise is great. I just wanted to say this and thanks to the developers for such a great production tool; the reason for so many requests is because overall renoise is good, and for most of what it does, it does it best, but, there are, personally, to me, things that can make it even BETTER!

(Just thought I'd add this to my signature rather to any posts.)

#18 Tom de Rooy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 21:34

Great video Duncan. Will be a handy feature indeed.

#19 Djeroek

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 23:24

Nice job A, this needs to happen (finally).

#20 Ledger

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 23:37

I made a video


If this is the new bar for making suggestions I may never make one again! :blink:/>

Great video Duncan!

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#21 101010

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:32

I feel like a complete nonce,
I thought this was real! XD

Here i am looking through the devices wondering How in the F are you doing this... Then the realization comes. :blush:/>

Trouble is, we can actually already do this right now. I forgot how to do it though, but it's available through the OSC/MIDI subsystem.

IT-Alien wrote the main code for doing it, then me under a different name added to it. Though I've forgotten where all of this is posted.

All the source code for doing it is here somewhere in the forum. But I'm not sure how to get to it. I think it's in this account: http://forum.renoise...ser/886-choice/
but it may be in this one: http://forum.renoise...106-moonriders/

Forum software isn't letting me look through the posts.


really though, all that's needed is someone with time and experience to write the plugin/addon dealy.


EDIT: oh yeah, the actual usage is for sample offset manipulation but it'll work the same.

Edited by 101010, 09 June 2014 - 21:33.


#22 migloJE

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 19:30

similar idea here http://forum.renoise...__1#entry303317 , LFO controled loopoints would be welcome.

Edited by migloJE, 29 June 2014 - 19:40.


#23 toblerpone

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:13

similar idea here http://forum.renoise...__1#entry303317 , LFO controled loopoints would be welcome.


There's a tool that does what you need.
http://forum.renoise...0-loop-control/
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#24 joule

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:39

Maybe it's already been mentioned, but please be aware that this feature would ideally need the possibility to make a pitch-change in realtime for the note to stay in tune - at least when using it with short loops. Otherwise the pitch would become lower when the loop range becomes larger and synth like modulations will be very limited. I think the implementation of loop point automation needs careful consideration because of this.
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#25 Achenar

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:10

I briefly alluded to this at the end of the video where it was mentioned to run at 48KHz, as this affects how things sound with really short loops (most notably at higher pitches). Personally I really like how it messes with the sound and is one of the things I'd like to make use of if this feature was implemented. But I can totally see how this wouldn't be musically useful for many people.

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: loop, point, loop-point, automation