just to let you show into a buyers mind. now that i’m again 247 bucks poorer, i am in such a state.
it’s just like a tracker. yeah, a piano roll thing that is like a tracker. fast, completely intuitive (have to look-up only few things), per-note actions/things (ok, no vibrato tool ), and… its synth is aliasing-free!
yep. so. well. make renoise aliasing free (yeah, just ignore me…), make it a bit less cryptic (i was trackering since st3), and … call it… rewig. or bitnoise or so.
decided to invent a ‘Bitwig instrument’. Sound familiar?
you mean, bitwig instruments are the equivalent of renoise instruments? or it’s like image-line inventing fl-studio plug-ins (along with some features they wanted)?
the renoise instruments are kind of an unfinished act of a genious to me. *if there was any way to make short loops sound good at c6 or so, (the 128 point arguru sinc realtime filter is of little help) and if there was just a little bit more of “putting-together things” (putting together oscillators in some synth way) and if there was about 100 presets across 5 simple categories, then i would say this is the most advanced synth available, beating everything else. but honestly, with aliasing, and without a few vintage synth presets quickly to choose, it’s simply not for me.
i tried sampling all kinds of (synth) vsts, and more or less failed.
i tried using vst and failed (see bitwig instrument features)
renoise being a tracker (or being a little bit cryptic) is only the minor part, why i have to do my periodic “forever” (not really) switch to another daw.
don’t know… this is my little, incomplete reception of renoise.
cool @ the note properties tool.
with scripting? is the lua scripting good enough to build a gui just like the c++ part?
(i have only touched the renoise scripting once, and i refused to really try anything with that. scripting is a gimmick for me. the “closed + open source” fact alone is too weird for me.)
IMHO the strength of a tracker lies primarily in the sample-manipulation, right there in the pattern editor.
Yes, it can be a strength, sure, but I also see it as quite a limitation. To me it seems that the Renoise devs are stuck in that mindset. Most cool things you can do with Renoise you cannot do in realtime, only programme them. So basically, while they are called Renoise instruments, you often cannot play those instruments properly, which is a pity (and very confusing, since they are called instruments). I really hope that this will be a nice side effect of Redux for Renoise users, making the Renoise sampler actually playable.
I bought Bitwig when it first came out, and sold it half a year later. I liked it, but I didn’t get into the workflow and I felt it was a rather early release. It’s quite a bit like Live, and Live also didn’t work for me (kept meaning to buy it, with Push, but whenever I tried it again, it just didn’t click).
The whole mouse clicking is harder than I thought.
Especially the mouse dragging.
Mivo is right, this thing is NOT like a tracker.
I used to switch DAW’s every once in a while and I still get that itch sometimes. So I’ve demoed Bitwig a bit, it’s surely nice and all but I just can’t seem to get myself make even like 30 seconds of music on any other program. I’m not sure if Renoise has healed me or infected me
I bought Bitwig when it first came out, and sold it half a year later. I liked it, but I didn’t get into the workflow and I felt it was a rather early release. It’s quite a bit like Live, and Live also didn’t work for me (kept meaning to buy it, with Push, but whenever I tried it again, it just didn’t click).
And Bitwig is nothing like a tracker.
I wish Ableton would stop bundling Push with Live Intro. I’d love to get one and try it out, but I’ve already got Live 9 Suite, and I’d like the option to return it if I decide I don’t absolutely love it. I think that’s why they only sell it bundled; no one can return it thanks to the abomination called modern copyright law.
On topic, I’ll eventually install the Bitwig demo I downloaded, but I can’t really afford to buy another DAW just yet. I’ve got several to keep me busy for the time being
There is still Renoise 2.8 in the test. Renoise 3.0 uses all the time since interpolation, so switch to sinc. It’s better than Ableton 9.03 and Cubase (well, do not really know which line there is bad and which one is good ) And Cubase sounds very fine to my ears… Ok, Logic X and Ableton 9.1 seem to have no aliasing at all. Would be interesting to see how Renoise 3.01 performs.
Yes, it can be a strength, sure, but I also see it as quite a limitation. To me it seems that the Renoise devs are stuck in that mindset. Most cool things you can do with Renoise you cannot do in realtime, only programme them. So basically, while they are called Renoise instruments, you often cannot play those instruments properly, which is a pity (and very confusing, since they are called instruments). I really hope that this will be a nice side effect of Redux for Renoise users, making the Renoise sampler actually playable.
I’m confused, why can’t you play the instruments properly in realtime?
Mark2: about the aliasing i suggest you try Danoises elements as they sound pretty sweet at the higher octaves.
There is still Renoise 2.8 in the test. Renoise 3.0 uses all the time since interpolation, so sw itch to sinc. It’s better than Ableton 9.03
IMO, the (anti)aliasing in Renoise is decent but not excellent. Ableton (as of 9.11) is a pretty impressive result.
But in a way. the subject of aliasing really depends on what you are trying to achieve: to my ears, aliasing only has a negative impact when you are sampling material and then playing this back faster than you sampled it. This is what my “elements” try to make up for (sampled at multiple frequencies).
But when playing a recording back slower, I actually like aliasing. It gives the material a certain crispness, which makes up for the lost frequencies. For this reason, I also tend to sample at higher hertz… sometimes I even disable interpolation altogether (perhaps growing up on Amiga spoiled my ears, haha)
It’s cool that Renoise gives you the choice to choose the interpolation method on a per-sample basis.
I also like a bit of aliasing, and especially I like to play samples at a higher rate Because of the aliasing. I remember Buzz, it kind of scrambled the samples then, which sounded good to me. But more nice would be of course if Renoise would also produce no aliasing at all and then offering an aliasing-fx to add aliasing again
I kind of understand aliasing… you get extra sub-harmonics as the upper harmonics wrap around the Nyquist frequency… right?
are they actually sub-harmonics, harmonically related to the original sound? or are the frequencies not really harmonically related? I’m thinking the latter…
what would it take to get renoise to alias less?
when do you see aliasing come in to play, typically? I know it’s when you pitch something up or down… is it for every sample, or only for single-cycle samples pitched way up or down?
when do you see aliasing come in to play, typically? I know it’s when you pitch something up or down… is it for every sample, or only for single-cycle samples pitched way up or down?
A single-cycle is conceptually no different from a long sample, it’s the harmonic content of the sound that makes the aliasing happen.
For instance, if you take a pure sine wave it should theoretically not produce any aliasing at all. On the other hand, a harmonically complex sound(say, FM synth) will very easily produce these artifacts.
Also, the interplay between the original bit-rate of the sample and the settings of the audio output come into play. The better the two frequencies match up (e.g. 48/96kHz), the less aliasing.
Generally, I prefer high frequency content. It’s a bit like having a high-res picture that you can then scale down from. That always gives a better result than having a low-res one that you scale up
Generally, I prefer high frequency content. It’s a bit like having a high-res picture that you can then scale down from. That always gives a better result than having a low-res one that you scale up
Is that because aliasing at lower octaves sounds better than aliasing in higher octaves or just because the resolution is higher?
Hopefully they will add my r3 test results soon. There is one thing that puzzles me now. If I play the sweep float file at 44,1kHz device out setting, I can hear heavy aliasing (no clean sweep). If I play it at 48khz, I cannot hear any aliasing. What does this mean? That a) core audio is not so good b ) my sound card or its driver isn’t good or c) this is normal since conversion from 96 to 48 is exact the half, so in that case there cannot be aliasing…?
Ok this effect that you actually do not hear a clean sweep if the file is antialiased is quite impressive to me! You actually hear no clean sweep, you hear some multiple sweeps. But in real situations, aliasing doesn’t seem to be so audible obviously. You can play the sweep file above in renoise at device out 48khz and you will hear no aliasing. Switching it to 44,1 and the result is completely different. Or play it at another note than c-4.
Ok this effect that you actually do not hear a clean sweep if the file is antialiased is quite impressive to me! You actually hear no clean sweep, you hear some multiple sweeps. But in real situations, aliasing doesn’t seem to be so audible obviously. You can play the sweep file above in renoise at device out 48khz and you will hear no aliasing. Switching it to 44,1 and the result is completely different. Or play it at another note than c-4.
), and… its synth is aliasing-free! 
),
B)
