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Play other VSTs instead of samples?


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#1 c-Row

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 22:50

Is it somehow possible to use other VSTs as sound source for Redux instead of samples? So far I haven't found a way to do this...  :unsure:


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#2 toblerpone

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 23:11

You use renoise in rewire slave mode :P

this may change in the future



#3 Carbonthief

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 23:23

You have to sample it.  Renoise has a "Plugin Grabber" you may already be familiar with.  Use that to create an .xrni out of a VSTi and then load the .xrni into Redux.



#4 SiG

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 01:40

It would be awesome if Redux could be used as an effect.



#5 c-Row

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 07:36

You have to sample it.  Renoise has a "Plugin Grabber" you may already be familiar with.  Use that to create an .xrni out of a VSTi and then load the .xrni into Redux.

 

I am, yes.  ;)  Guess I will use this workaround until a more elegant solution arrives.


Edited by c-Row, 04 June 2015 - 07:52.

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#6 arve

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 20:11

It would be awesome if Redux could be used as an effect.

I've tried using Redux inside of Reaper, and while the Line in effect actually grabs the sampled audio, it fails to mute the audio input - which is a shame, really - I had hoped to use it for echo and loop effects on external instruments.



#7 msk

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 20:59

Oh wait ... Redux is only about samples ?!!! OMFG what a shame. I hoped that it will be the way how to have a "tracker based midi clips editor" inside any DAW - using redux as phrase generator which outputs midi data back to DAW (where instruments will be placed). If it is about samples only, it is unusable for 90% of linear daw users ...


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#8 SiG

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 21:37

I've tried using Redux inside of Reaper, and while the Line in effect actually grabs the sampled audio, it fails to mute the audio input - which is a shame, really - I had hoped to use it for echo and loop effects on external instruments.

 

I did that in Live 9 and it worked fine, it only played the output from Redux. Maybe there's an issue with the way you routed your audio in Reaper?



#9 toblerpone

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 21:41

msk: rewire...like just use it, no renoise doesn't announce it's midi ports, you must use virtual ones, try loopmidi if you're on windows, it works absolutely  fine.


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#10 pat

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 04:22

Oh wait ... Redux is only about samples ?!!! OMFG what a shame. I hoped that it will be the way how to have a "tracker based midi clips editor" inside any DAW - using redux as phrase generator which outputs midi data back to DAW (where instruments will be placed). If it is about samples only, it is unusable for 90% of linear daw users ...


Why would it be unusable? It's a sampler - so any DAW user that uses samplers, can make use of Redux. AND it has phrases :thumbsup:
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#11 Nokatus

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 19:56

I was already sooo close to buying Redux when I noticed it doesn't send MIDI, and was somewhat taken aback. Yeppp, I'll most probably buy it after a while anyway, whether it does or doesn't, as it's a great piece of software in any case  :badteeth: ... But I strongly agree, SO much potential of this thing would go to waste if there wasn't MIDI out functionality at some point.



#12 msk

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 21:09

Agree. Rewiring/using midi loop devices is not a way, because nothing of mentioned is automatically configured/wired when I open a project in DAW. It must be simple and stupid. Track->add vst instrument, then add fx->redux->create some patterns and create midi clips in DAW which triggers that patterns or uses them as a phrase generator.

 

For samples - ok, it's great, but for what? Drums? FX? Vocal slices? What another samples are used in today's productions?

 

I miss a pattern-style editing workflow in my production, especially for rhytmic parts as plucks, leads etc... It's a pain to draw it by mouse, it's near-impossible to record it live from a midi keyboard.

 

But I don't want to use pattern editor for a pads, strings, effects, vocals... That's why I don't use Renoise for a whole song, but I still hope for some hybrid workflow - linear editor for a complete song, but some "midi clips" should be edited as old-style tracker patterns.



#13 Nokatus

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 08:31

It would also be a super powerful polyphonic arpeggiator (to such extent that calling it an "arpeggiator" would be a bit misleading), capable of transposing patterns on the fly, based on MIDI input. For me, that's the main reason MIDI out is a no brainer. The experimental potential is huge, too, as one Redux instance could trigger other Reduxes :D and so on.



#14 toblerpone

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:16

There are far harder things in life than an additional 16 clicks initially  :P and almost nothing stops you from using redux as a synth, the big difference here is that you set up the input of the synth, the 'oscillator', instead of just using the supplied internal wavetables.

 

Nokatus: You don't even need rewire or a full copy of renoise for that, just have daw>virtual midi port>renoise>other virtual midi port(s)>daw


Edited by toblerpone, 02 April 2016 - 14:41.


#15 Nokatus

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 17:43

Nokatus: You don't even need rewire or a full copy of renoise for that, just have daw>virtual midi port>renoise>other virtual midi port(s)>daw

 

I have used Renoise for twelve years and know pretty well what it's capable of doing and what it isn't :). And you do know perfectly well what I mean, also: this isn't about Renoise, the full application. Redux, in and of itself, would be a much more powerful plugin product if it had MIDI out. 



#16 emre_k

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 13:29

This could be cool. Additionally, being able to use VST effects in FX chains would also be huge IMO! All the more possibilities for making sounds & sharing them.


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#17 danoise

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 14:39

All the more possibilities for making sounds & sharing them.

Currently, Renoise supports plugins as audio effects, but Redux doesn't.

Think about it: if you want to share your preset with a friend, he would need to have those plugins installed. Bundling the .dll files is not an option.
Also, opening your preset in a different OS, and it would break even if you had the same plugin installed in both places, as plugins commonly store their internal data in a platform-specific way.

More possibilities, yes, but also making sharing more difficult or even impossible.
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#18 emre_k

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 14:49

Currently, Renoise supports plugins as audio effects, but Redux doesn't.

Think about it: if you want to share your preset with a friend, he would need to have those plugins installed. Bundling the .dll files is not an option.
Also, opening your preset in a different OS, and it would break even if you had the same plugin installed in both places, as plugins commonly store their internal data in a platform-specific way.

More possibilities, yes, but also making sharing more difficult or even impossible.

 

Yeah fair points for sure. I love Redux as it is and it would probably make sense to keep things native only even though this was implemented but I don't think it would hurt to have as an option anyway.

 

Also, opening your preset in a different OS, and it would break even if you had the same plugin installed in both places, as plugins commonly store their internal data in a platform-specific way.

 

This sounds nasty though.


Edited by emre_k, 12 June 2015 - 14:53.


#19 c-Row

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 18:27

Think about it: if you want to share your preset with a friend, he would need to have those plugins installed. Bundling the .dll files is not an option.
Also, opening your preset in a different OS, and it would break even if you had the same plugin installed in both places, as plugins commonly store their internal data in a platform-specific way.

More possibilities, yes, but also making sharing more difficult or even impossible.

 

While this is true it's not a problem Redux introduced to our workflow. If somebody doesn't care about sharing his creations with others or issues with different platforms then let them work the way they want. Right now Redux is a shiny sportscar that's only allowed to drive in reduced-traffic areas.  ;)


Edited by c-Row, 18 June 2015 - 18:29.

QUOTE(Louis @ Apr 12 2006, 07:48 AM)
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#20 jasper

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 23:45

 

For samples - ok, it's great, but for what? Drums? FX? Vocal slices? What another samples are used in today's productions?

 

I miss a pattern-style editing workflow in my production, especially for rhytmic parts as plucks, leads etc... It's a pain to draw it by mouse, it's near-impossible to record it live from a midi keyboard.

 

 

I think the point with redux is that you can very easily sample sounds (either from hardware or software instruments) using the built in record function. In ableton, for example, you simply set up a bus whose output is routed into Redux. Then any track in your song can be sent to the bus in order to be sampled really quickly for on-the-fly resampling and mashing up with the phrase editor.

This is really powerful, and quite a unique feature as far as I know...

Samplers are not just ways of triggering drums, vocals and fx sounds...
You are only limited by your imagination.
Pull up an old song, set up a bus send to redux and resample some of the stems in your track.

Then trigger it in the phrase editor, or by midi from your host (or a combo)

I personally think that giving it a midi out would confuse the issue.
Makes more sense to keep it as a sampler in its own right
 



#21 pat

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 04:17

While this is true it's not a problem Redux introduced to our workflow. If somebody doesn't care about sharing his creations with others or issues with different platforms then let them work the way they want. Right now Redux is a shiny sportscar that's only allowed to drive in reduced-traffic areas.  ;)

 

I don't know of any instruments that allow you to use arbitrary plugin effects. The only plugin that I know of that can host other plugins is Blue Cat's Patchwork which is designed specifically to host other plugins.

 

So while I understand what you want, and why... it's not at all common, and the "shiny sportscar that's only allowed to drive in reduced-traffic areas" is kind of ridiculous.

Also, I would prefer to drive a shiny sportscar in reduced-traffic areas because, well, less traffic ;)



#22 msk

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 07:48

I think the point with redux is that you can very easily sample sounds (either from hardware or software instruments) using the built in record function.

Makes more sense to keep it as a sampler in its own right
 

I know that I could sample my instruments, but it is retrogressive. I used (only) samples in every song I made and it was great. 20 years ago ... Now its time of virtual instruments. With sampling virtual instrument, I must sample (near) every pitch I would like to use in my song - waste of time and space, especially when sampling long-sounding instruments. Also I lost the ability to modulate sound of that instrument, because it is 'hardcoded' into a sample.

 

Nevermind, Redux will target its customers for sure, but sadly - it will not be useful in my workflow ...



#23 jasper

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 09:29

I know that I could sample my instruments, but it is retrogressive. I used (only) samples in every song I made and it was great. 20 years ago ... Now its time of virtual instruments. With sampling virtual instrument, I must sample (near) every pitch I would like to use in my song - waste of time and space, especially when sampling long-sounding instruments. Also I lost the ability to modulate sound of that instrument, because it is 'hardcoded' into a sample.

 

Nevermind, Redux will target its customers for sure, but sadly - it will not be useful in my workflow ...

Fair enough, I think I just love anything retro!
You do lose the ability to modulate your sounds once sampled, but you also gain an array of different processes, such as pattern-based effect commands, looping, retriggering, reversing, repitching etc...



#24 TheBellows

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 09:42

Aren't there other useful alternatives for MIDI? I'd say using Redux just as a MIDI sequencer would be like using a rocket launcher to kill a fly. :P

I wouldn't mind though, if it was possible to load VSTi's into Redux, especially for plugin grabbing. 

 

That these things make sharing more difficult is a bad argument i think. Using VSTi's is a choice and people that uses VSTi's in the first place in their projects wouldn't be able to share it anyway. The choice would have been between using the VSTi with or without Redux.



#25 TheBellows

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 09:50

I know that I could sample my instruments, but it is retrogressive. I used (only) samples in every song I made and it was great. 20 years ago ... Now its time of virtual instruments. With sampling virtual instrument, I must sample (near) every pitch I would like to use in my song - waste of time and space, especially when sampling long-sounding instruments. Also I lost the ability to modulate sound of that instrument, because it is 'hardcoded' into a sample.

 

Nevermind, Redux will target its customers for sure, but sadly - it will not be useful in my workflow ...

Using samples in this age is much more handy than it was 20 years ago, now that we have lots of space on our harddrives and enough memory to handle high quality samples. There are endless possibilities with samples while there are limited possibilities with a virtual instrument.