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Trigger phrases in redux by midi?

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#1 Reggaecide

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 23:21

Hello. I have started to test redux and have some issues with a basic function. 
I dont seem to be able to trigger more than the currently selected phrase in redux by midi. It seems that either  the other notes triggers a mixture of sounds from the second redux pattern and various samples from the xrni or it triggers just a structure of xrni samples that i have not sequenced.

So im wondering what i need to do to be ablet o trigger several redux phrases seperatly without triggering any samples that is not a part of the phrases?

I read 7.1 in the quickstart manual but i cant figure out how to make such  a macro if that is the solution.


EDIT. Oh nevermind i found it:

http://tutorials.ren...i/Phrase_Editor


Edited by Reggaecide, 05 June 2015 - 23:27.


#2 danoise

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 10:55

EDIT. Oh nevermind i found it:

 
I guess you were looking for the keymap mode? 
Actually, the wiki you link to does not yet fully cover how phrases can be triggered in Redux, 
 
The thing is, Redux has 2 distinctive modes: Program and Keymap. The tutorial wiki only explains Keymap. 
 
Keymap allows you to assign phrases to the keyboard, like you see in the following picture: 
3.0_phraseeditor-phrases.png
 
...it's pretty straightforward, but also a great limitation in that you can only play a given phrase in the keyboard range it has been mapped to.
Your confusion about the mixture of sounds probably stems from the fact that in the Keymap mode, the keyzone is still active in the "gaps" between phrase mappings. 
 
The Program mode is different, and basically "spreads" the selected phrase across the whole keyboard. 
 
Selecting the phrase is done either via the Redux UI or by sending program-change messages from your host or keyboard. 
This is very handy, as you can basically play anything, at any time. And most MIDI controllers are able to switch phrases AND trigger them. 
 
But perhaps the Quickstart isn't too clear on this particular subject - you are not the first to "not get it". 
Another user, Satobox, who has offered to translate the quickstart into japanese, has created the following pictures to illustrate how it works:
 
Redux_program.png?raw=1
 
 
Redux_keymap.png?raw=1
 
The program change (MIDI) implementation itself is also quite sophisticated,
as you can switch between all phrase triggering modes (including OFF) in real-time:
 
program_trigger_mode.gif?raw=1
 
For my particular controller, I have mapped program changes 0-7 to individual buttons,
making it easy to switch between (and record) phrases as they are played.
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#3 Robodub

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 15:09

I'm using redux for a week now and I'm struggling doing program changes via midi. Perhaps somebody can explain it to me how this is working in renoise ...

 

When I load redux I open it's phrase editor, selecting program change mode and let's say I have three phrases. 

 

What I've understood so far:

 

- I can change the program with the M2 pattern command (program change). Like "00 M2 001" for program 1 or "00 M2 002" for program 2. (0-127)

- I can use the *Intr. MIDI Control Device. To do that I have to select the plugin and open up a TAB and select Prg. Now I can use the slider from 0-127 to select the program.

 

But then I wanted to control the program change thing with a midi controller (launch control, novation). Is it really the only way to hit the midi map button and assign every button to a prg slider from the *Instr. MIDI Control Devive and set "Min" and "Max" in the midi map window to for example "2" and "2" to select program 2 from redux?

 

It is working, but I invested one hour to solve this and I was asking me if there is a much faster way to do that. It's also not that what I want. It seems that this requires a new note in renoises pattern editor to change the phrase program. Thats not cool, because I want to practice "live" and change prg when I'm experimenting and playin.

 

What do I not get here? How do I assign midi buttons to the different programs in redux in renoise. hihi 

 

thanks 

 

 

 



#4 danoise

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 15:51

I was asking me if there is a much faster way to do that. It's also not that what I want. It seems that this requires a new note in renoises pattern editor to change the phrase program. Thats not cool

 

The fastest thing is to use the keymap mode. Then you can trigger different phrases for each key on the controller. 

But you mention program mode, so I guess you want to switch between phrases on the fly and have be able to trigger them across the whole "keyboard"? 

 

Once Redux receives a prg-chg, it switches to that phrase. Then press a key to trigger - that's all there is to it. If you continue to hold the pad and then switch to another program, it will continue to play any already playing phrases (they are not cut off). So it's quite flexible. 

 

I don't have the Launch Control, but I do own a couple of Novation's products. The way it's working, you want to, "somehow", be able to make it send program change messages. 

When I'm using the Remote SL, I'm mapping a bunch of buttons to send program change message (just the range from 0-7). 

Doing that from an encoder is also possible but not ideal. You need to be either *very* precise, or perhaps limit the range to say, 1-16 to have a little more wiggle room. 

 

Do you have some editor software, something that allows you to customize the Launch Control in this way? Otherwise I made a tool that can do highly sophisticated setups. For example, you could hold one button (pad) and select a phrase using the other pads. Kind of like a shift modifier. I haven't done such a script for the LC, but it should definitely be possible. 


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#5 ckluxen

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 13:08

Just tested phrase switch using Program Changes in Ableton Clips, they come too late and don't set the Phrase at first beat.

Besides Ableton's timing or Plugin Delay Compensation isn't 100% right. I hear a timing difference using renoise.

 

So good Job Renoisers.... 


Edited by ckluxen, 17 October 2017 - 13:11.


#6 danoise

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 07:10

Just tested phrase switch using Program Changes in Ableton Clips, they come too late and don't set the Phrase at first beat.

 

I think you slightly misinterpreted how it works. The phrase probably never got set in the first place. 

 

in Ableton Live (and Renoise for that matter), plugins receive internal MIDI from the DAW - one for playing and one for switching. Which phrase is playing is *not* determined by sending a program change (I think this is where you get it wrong), but by the program that was already set as active when the note got triggered. 

 

This is what gives the Renoise instrument / Redux the ability to play multiple "programs" simultaneously.

Select, then trigger phrase A. Select program B and trigger that one *while* phrase A continues to play. Powerful stuff.  

 

This all becomes a tiny tricky when the DAW decides to apply the program change *after* the note. When this is the case, you basically have to put the program change before the triggering note. 

I believe that both Renoise and Ableton does this - but AFAIK there is no industry standard to follow regarding the correct order of such stacked MIDI messages. 

 

Bottom line: if you think that flexibility is too much, simply map phrases to keys. Or put the program change before the note..


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