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Performing live with Renoise

live performance tips

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#1 ••H∑X∑R••

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 22:02

Hi Everyone,

 

I am starting to line up some live performance gigs after switching to renoise a few months ago, and I am wondering what approaches you veterans out there are using for live performance in (primarily) renoise.

 

I haven't experimented with live dive or duplex at all yet, so any and all tips, suggestions, etc. are most welcome!

 

Thanks in advance :badteethslayer:


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#2 midi error

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 23:08

The only reason I know about renoise was seeing a guy play live with it probably around 2002! At the time I had no idea what the f he was doing, but it sounded great.

 

I still have no idea what he was doing


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#3 brisket

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 11:23

I'm just starting to play shows with Renoise -- switched over to it as my primary DAW maybe seven months ago.

 

The setup I use is based around a MIDI mixer (Vestax VCM-600). I try not to use too many tracks in my arrangements, so I can usually map each track to a mixer channel. Obviously that's good for fades etc. Other buttons and knobs on the mixer aren't really designed for the way I use it, but I've reassigned most of them pretty easily.

 

My other main piece of equipment is just a MIDI keyboard. With MIDI filtering to control different instruments with different sections of the keyboard, there's a lot that can be done. It took me a while to figure out the intricacies of assigning instruments to the right track at the right time, but now I'm all good.

 

I don't use Live Dive etc. because don't have that sort of controller, but you can do a lot with the Pattern Matrix.  Renoise still has some pretty big holes in it for live use, but there is a shitload of stuff you can do, and every system has its drawbacks... I just keep using it because I'm productive with it.


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#4 MurderatØr

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 13:00

MIDI mixer (Vestax VCM-600). I try not to use too many tracks in my arrangements, so I can usually map each track to a mixer channel.

 

I don't use Live Dive etc. because don't have that sort of controller, but you can do a lot with the Pattern Matrix.  Renoise still has some pretty big holes in it for live use, but there is a shitload of stuff you can do, and every system has its drawbacks... I just keep using it because I'm productive with it.

 

 

That is a cool mixer but l'm guessing it's just a controller and not a soundcard, i.e. you still need a 2 channel soundcard (1 for headphone cue, the other for main out).

 

Regarding Renoise's shortcomings for live work, l made a thead summarising what needs to be done for "Renoise Live 4.0", but it probably reads like mumbo jumbo and needs explanatory diagrams: http://forum.renoise...ashup-paradigm/


If you got any links to your live performances, l'd be interested as l'm sure everyone else would :)


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#5 MurderatØr

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 13:09

Oh and nice pic from "Over Sea Under Stone", Susan Cooper rules.


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#6 brisket

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 01:11

Yeah, I use a separate soundcard. I come from a band background and find the idea of using a headphone cue kind of terrifying... stereo 1/4 inch jacks straight out to the monitors for me, I want to hear what everyone else is hearing. 

 

The kind of set-up you've suggested would be cool, but I've come to accept that there's a limit to how many parameters I can or want to control live, especially since I sing and play synth live. Mixers, sends, transport and effect controls is enough for me atm -- I need one hand free for playing synth, holding the mic, drinking etc...


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#7 ••H∑X∑R••

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:15

Just got a Launchpad mini and Live Dive for it.

 

So far, seems like a tenable way to build sets...

 

Thanks for the comments everyone, keep dropping knowledge!


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#8 spktkpkt

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 17:16

Just got a Launchpad mini and Live Dive for it.
 
So far, seems like a tenable way to build sets...
 
Thanks for the comments everyone, keep dropping knowledge!

I'm in a somewhat same situation and currently testing different setups (I'm not in a state to perform live now and don't have any experience). I use a Launchpad S with Live Dive to trigger the pattern blocks and the Launch Control XL to do some FX stuff and fades etc. It isn't bad, but it still needs improvements. I would also like to record my performance, which is possible with Live Dive as long you only record the pattern changes, but i have problems to record the FX stuff done with the Launch Control. I'm not sure if it would be better to use Duplex, maybe it is, but i can't get my head around it. I'm not sure where to begin, how to "build" a custom template for Duplex and how to map the parameters. If someone using a similar setup (Launchpad and a midi based fader/knob controller), it would be great to get some hints on how to build a setup which can be used to perform live and record the performance at the same time, either with Live Dive (and other tools) or Duplex or whatever. Also a link to a good Duplex guide for stupids might help. I know it is a lot easier with Ableton Live to setup a live set, but i do prefer Renoise over Live and would like to stay in my favorite DAW. The greatest case would be...performing live, record it and maybe do some post work to finish a track all within Renoise. Any useful hint are welcome, thank you.

EDIT: Ok, found some useful documentation here: http://forum.renoise...ex-application/ and here: http://forum.renoise...ng-duplex-files and of course the Duplex Manual.

 

Just a question before i spend to much time just to figure out that it isn't possible. Is it possible to build a setup with Duplex that provides the following functions?

  • triggering pattern blocks like Live Dive does
  • record and print parameter changes of VST effects into the pattern matrix or automation curves
  • link Duplex application UI elements (knobs, faders etc.) to parameters of VST/Renoise effect controls dynamicly

Edited by spktkpkt, 21 June 2015 - 17:52.


#9 ••H∑X∑R••

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 04:40

I am going to use Grid Pie instead of Live Dive, since I like having the capability of switching patterns on the fly to generate fills without having to wait for the whole next pattern to cue... unless anyone knows of a way to instantly trigger patterns in live dive... Cie?

 

Having a lot of fun figuring out how this is going to work. God, I love renoise. so much more direct than reason.

 

At the moment my setup is a nanokontrol and a launchpad. I also have a trigger finger which I might be able to use as the sole control surface, or instead of the nanokontrol.

 

I hope to post up a version of the live set once I get all the kinks worked out and all the patterns wrote. Probably a few weeks.


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#10 ••H∑X∑R••

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 05:06

To be more precise, I am using Duplex's Grid Pie Full to interface with the launchpad. Seems to be working well so far!


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#11 spktkpkt

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 18:14

To be more precise, I am using Duplex's Grid Pie Full to interface with the launchpad. Seems to be working well so far!

Is it possible to record a live sessions like with Live Dive?

#12 ••H∑X∑R••

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 21:17

I don't think so, but perhaps someone with more experience knows differently...

 

I mean, you could always record the audio, which I intend to do, but I don't think you can write/record into the pattern matrix with it.


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#13 spktkpkt

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 21:40

To bad, but I thought so.

Recording the audio is an option, but it would be great to have the opportunity to edit the session afterwards.

Edited by spktkpkt, 29 June 2015 - 21:43.


#14 danoise

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 22:23

I don't think so, but perhaps someone with more experience knows differently...

 
Oh, but you can  :)

To record any change that you make, Grid Pie comes with a real time recording feature. To enable this feature, you need to enable playback-follow (SCROLL LOCK) and edit-mode (ESC) in Renoise (both are most likely mapped to your controller as part of the device configuration).

 
Quote from the Duplex Grid Pie manual
[url=https://www.dropbox....idPie.pdf?raw=1
 
Biggest difference between Live Dive and Grid Pie, AFAIK is that Grid Pie supports differently-sized patterns (for example, mix long melodies with short beats). It's more complex to use, so you have to decide if it's worth it.
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#15 spktkpkt

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 22:39

Whoot?!... I'll check that out as soon I have some time. Thank you (again)!

#16 ••H∑X∑R••

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 22:44

 

 

 

Oh, but you can  :)

 

Quote from the Duplex Grid Pie manual

https://dl.dropboxus...plexGridPie.pdf

 

Biggest difference between Live Dive and Grid Pie, AFAIK is that Grid Pie supports differently-sized patterns (for example, mix long melodies with short beats). It's more complex to use, so you have to decide if it's worth it. 

 

Well then. This is good news!

 

Thanks for enlightening us, and I hope to take advantage of this feature soon. Also good to know about being able to mix patterns of different lengths. That could open up some very interesting polyrhythms...  O.o


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#17 Cie

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 16:08

 I use a Launchpad S with Live Dive to trigger the pattern blocks and the Launch Control XL to do some FX stuff and fades etc. It isn't bad, but it still needs improvements. I would also like to record my performance, which is possible with Live Dive as long you only record the pattern changes, but i have problems to record the FX stuff done with the Launch Control. 

 

You can record fx like the following when having opened LiveDive:

- click on the buttons "Live recording" and "Record everything" in the live dive window

- Activate edit mode in renoise

- in the pattern, click on the track and the effect row column of the track you would like to record the fx changes in

- use your knob of launch control to change the linked fx parameter (I assume you have linked the knob via midi to a effect parameter on the specified track)

- the changes should be recorded.

- to delete the effect row column press Ctrl+Shift+F3

 

Well this might be not the optimal solution, because recording with good transitions could be quite difficult, but you can record the parameters and after the recording of the song you could finetune the song.

 

 

I am going to use Grid Pie instead of Live Dive, since I like having the capability of switching patterns on the fly to generate fills without having to wait for the whole next pattern to cue... unless anyone knows of a way to instantly trigger patterns in live dive... Cie?

No, every change is made within pattern sync. This means if you trigger some tracks they will be heard on the next pattern change, not instantly. I would recommend to use mute/unmute tracks for this scenario.

 

 

Is it possible to record a live sessions like with Live Dive?

If you click on the buttons "Live recording" and "Record everything" in the live dive window, on every pattern change a new pattern will be appended to the end of the song, regardless if there was any change made or not. So you can build up a raw song with it.



#18 Djeroek

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 11:20

Anyone using a launchpad mk2 in combination with renoise/tools? Can get a secondhand for around 70 euro's, but not sure if it is worthwile. Looking for different workflow using the available live tools, but I think these tools support older models?

#19 Garrett Wang

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 18:59

Triggering phrases from keys or drumpads,

muting / unmuting tracks with touchscreen / mouse,

setting next pattern to play with touchscreen / mouse,

live finger drumming on pad controller with live midi keyboard bassline simultaneously,

fading tracks in and out with touchscreen (one at a time),

using the x/y device by touchscreen / mouse,

assign knobs to filter cutoff and resonance....or anything

 

The main thing I want to be able to do next is to use one controller to switch instruments while playing the instrument on the other controller.

Instant instrument change. To play the whole track live MPC style, using the midi keyboard or a second drum controller to switch instruments with a single hit...so you can keep in time..I know it can be done but I didnt get round to it yet..assigning

 

I tried lunch-pad 2. The velocity sensitivity is not great for live drumming though.


Edited by Garrett Wang, 09 May 2017 - 19:08.






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