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Improvement Suggestions for Live Music

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#1 MurderatØr

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:45

I originally appended this here, but l don't think the sticky was the right place, as someone mentioned on the sticky.

 

So, here are a few changes l'd like with a view to live performance. Basically, add more to the Matrix View - it seems fine as it is, but like anything, could be better, and the Matrix View is a "growth area". It's important for live musicians.

 

 

 

- Perhaps make a more intuitive the way of inserting patterns and copy / pasting selections of multiple patterns, into an existing song sequence.

 

- Allow the few extra song spaces in front of the actual song to have pattern numbers written into them without having to actually press the + button at the play cursor (so, if the play cursor is in the middle of the song, you can sneakily add a few extra patterns to the song without interrupting play)

 

- Perhaps allow individual blocks to be labelled, to give more of a manual aliasing of blocks (on top of the existing method of block aliasing).

 

- [No "Perhaps" about this one - this is a must] When you alter an aliased block, you must at least have the option NOT to have the changes also occur in every other identical aliased block. well duh, use the un-alias option.

 

- [No "Perhaps" about this one - this is a must] Allow Matrix View to be streeeetched sideways. Allow it to fill the screen if you fancy. Need to instantly trace blocks to their title headings, you see.

 

- Allow notes to be written to the right hand side of each row of blocks at each song position in the Matrix View.

 

- When the oscilloscope display is used to swtich individual blocks on / off, give the option for a countdown to the re-start of the pattern / the start of the next pattern, before the change takes effect. This allows for smooth audio progressions when playing live.

 

- When opening a Renoise song file, allow right click --> Open in New Renoise Instance / New Window (or are you only allowed the right click menu that Microsoft Windows itself provides?). It helps you mix Renoise instances.

 

 

Feel free to add your suggestions too (for live performance only please)


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#2 danoise

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 13:08

l don't think the sticky was the right place, as someone mentioned on the sticky.

Yes - since that topic is just a place for bookmarking, organizing - much appreciated!
 

- Perhaps make a more intuitive the way of inserting patterns and copy / pasting selections of multiple patterns, into an existing song sequence.


For me it makes sense that the matrix only deal with pattern-tracks ("slots").
So, everything dealing with patterns is delegated to the pattern-sequence, right next to the matrix.
I'm not saying it's the only way, but I am accustomed to how it works, and it makes sense to me.
 

- Allow the few extra song spaces in front of the actual song to have pattern numbers written into them without having to actually press the + button at the play cursor (so, if the play cursor is in the middle of the song, you can sneakily add a few extra patterns to the song without interrupting play)


If I understand this, it has to do with Pattern Follow being enabled. If you disable it (usually, Scr Lock key) then playback won't change - even if the edit position does.

Although, for me personally, this feels a bit cumbersome - would be nice if the playback position didn't change to the newly inserted pattern. There is a shortcut in the pattern sequence (CTRL+D), which will duplicate the selection and insert it in front, without changing the playback. Unfortunately, this shortcut seems to be available only within the pattern sequence (not a global shortcut) and also, it requires a selection to be made in the pattern sequence before it will do anything.
 

- Perhaps allow individual blocks to be labelled, to give more of a manual aliasing of blocks (on top of the existing method of block aliasing).

More than anything else, this is a problem of space. Text isn't really useful when you have room for just two characters?
Consider using custom assigned colors for these slots, perhaps? (Tracks have a standard color, but any slot can have any color).
 

- [No "Perhaps" about this one - this is a must] Allow Matrix View to be streeeetched sideways. Allow it to fill the screen if you fancy. Need to instantly trace blocks to their title headings, you see.

Try right-clicking the two small rectangles in the matrix scrollbar? Allows you to squeeze and stretch the matrix vertically and horizontally.
 

- Allow notes to be written to the right hand side of each row of blocks at each song position in the Matrix View.

That's part of the pattern sequence too - drag the right border to reveal pattern names
(you don't have to have the matrix visible in order to do this)

pattern_names.gif?raw=1
 
 

- When the oscilloscope display is used to swtich individual blocks on / off, give the option for a countdown to the re-start of the pattern / the start of the next pattern, before the change takes effect. This allows for smooth audio progressions when playing live.


Scheduling "matrix mutes" ? - that's indeed a nice idea for live performance!
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#3 MurderatØr

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 17:04

For me it makes sense that the matrix only deal with pattern-tracks ("slots").
So, everything dealing with patterns is delegated to the pattern-sequence, right next to the matrix.
I'm not saying it's the only way, but I am accustomed to how it works, and it makes sense to me.

 

Hmm weirdly, I cannot make screenshots if my Renoise window is open on Linux (i think i screwed something up, because i used to be able to) (I'm not a Renoise Linux user, I do any meaningful work on Windows). However, I found a stock image. What I'm asking is to be allowed to type pattern numbers into the olive-green boxes after pattern "32" in the Matrix song sequence, while the song is playing:

 

main_ui.png

 

 

If I understand this, it has to do with Pattern Follow being enabled. If you disable it (usually, Scr Lock key) then playback won't change - even if the edit position does.

 

Nope ....

 

 

Although, for me personally, this feels a bit cumbersome - would be nice if the playback position didn't change to the newly inserted pattern. There is a shortcut in the pattern sequence (CTRL+D), which will duplicate the selection and insert it in front, without changing the playback. Unfortunately, this shortcut seems to be available only within the pattern sequence (not a global shortcut) and also, it requires a selection to be made in the pattern sequence before it will do anything.
 

 

CTRL+D doesn't seem to work on my Linux version, even within the caveats that you mentioned ...

 

 

 

More than anything else, this is a problem of space. Text isn't really useful when you have room for just two characters?
Consider using custom assigned colors for these slots, perhaps? (Tracks have a standard color, but any slot can have any color).

 

 

What I mean is, say I want to alias block 4 of pattern 2, I would (would i really?) like to be able to type into a blank block in Matrx View "2.4" or "2d". That way l don't have to honour the vertical alignment rule for aliasing blocks.

 

 

 

Try right-clicking the two small rectangles in the matrix scrollbar? Allows you to squeeze and stretch the matrix vertically and horizontally.

 

There doesn't seem to be a way to stretch horizontally with this method. In fact I'd say horizontal stretch is more important than vertical stretch in Matrix View, because it helps you get more command over the blocks themselves, tracing them to their titles ("Drums", "Lead", etc.) and also having them all assembled in a complete view, while pattern editor takes up part of the screen.

 

 

That's part of the pattern sequence too - drag the right border to reveal pattern names
(you don't have to have the matrix visible in order to do this)

pattern_names.gif
 

 

That's weird because I subliminally got the idea of labelling things like that in Matrix View from an actual Renoise demo song lol. Thanks for pointing it out again though.

 

 

And finally, you said:

Scheduling "matrix mutes" ? - that's indeed a nice idea for live performance!

 

 

Yeah! I'm glad I got one good idea at least. I would add though, that I meant not just scheduling mutes/unmutes in Matrix, but also in the Oscilloscope and Tracker views too, but of course you are methodical and would do that anyway.


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#4 MurderatØr

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 17:11

- Another suggestion: as someone already mentioned ages ago: Allow live MIDI control of sampler functions during playback. Imagine messing around with sampler start, in samples and phrases. OK i've done MIDI control with Reason's NN-19 sampler, it's not mind blowing to mess about with the sample start position, but it's rather nice :) In fact, it can be mind blowing, if you add FX.

 

- Save all MIDI control settings with a song and between songs (i.e. when a new song is loaded that doesn't have any MIDI control settings, or give the option: Use current MIDI control settings? Y/N). Someone mentioned using a Hydra for this, not tried it yet, but a simpler solution would be better anyhow.


Edited by MurderatØr, 14 September 2015 - 17:17.

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#5 danoise

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 11:09

Hm. I'm pretty sure your trouble with playposition advancing when duplicating patterns shouldn't happen when Pattern Follow is disabled. Are you using keyboard shortcuts or mouse to create the new patterns?

I'm not saying it's going to completely solve your problem - you still need to toggle Pattern Follow on and off. But at least it should prevent that unwanted jump in sequencer position...
 

What I'm asking is to be allowed to type pattern numbers into the olive-green boxes after pattern "32" in the Matrix song sequence, while the song is playing


Ah, yes - +1 for that idea. I call it 'virtual space', because it ain't real until you start using it.
Wouldn't only want to be using the pattern boxes to enter numbers though, but also offer them as a target for drag-drop/clipboard operations. And this 'virtual space' should include the matrix too.
 

- Another suggestion: as someone already mentioned ages ago: Allow live MIDI control of sampler functions during playback. Imagine messing around with sampler start, in samples and phrases

A couple of tools I've done (mlrx, notes on wheels) allow live control of sample offset. But that feature is part of a larger, integrated workflow - so not really a replacement for what you seek. Still, they at least prove that it's possible to script.
 

Save all MIDI control settings with a song and between songs (i.e. when a new song is loaded that doesn't have any MIDI control settings, or give the option: Use current MIDI control settings? Y/N). Someone mentioned using a Hydra for this, not tried it yet, but a simpler solution would be better anyhow.


When you open the MIDI mapping dialog, you can also choose to save all mappings as a "preset", which can then be loaded from disk at a later time.
Or can can choose to save mappings as part of a song template. Then the mappings are already present when you start a new song.
If you save a DSP chain containing MIDI mappings, the mappings are also saved and restored when you import the chain.

Alternatively, look into Duplex. It offers persistent mappings that work independently of the song loaded (so a different approach from all of the above).
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#6 MurderatØr

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 13:38

Hm. I'm pretty sure your trouble with playposition advancing when duplicating patterns shouldn't happen when Pattern Follow is disabled. Are you using keyboard shortcuts or mouse to create the new patterns?
 

 

 

Oh sorry crossed wires I think - I now understand you were talking about my wanting to add song positions to the end of the song, whilst live play in the middle of the song. Yes it's possible when i toggle Pattern Follow off.

 

 

Hmmm quickly one more thing (l've mentioned it on Post #3 at http://forum.renoise...-x-boost-freqs/  )

 

- Option to automatically generate re-hashes of a sample. Imagine you have a drumloop finetuned to span an entire pattern. With the rehashes, you can make instant drum n bass (or hey, just instant variations of any style beat), and you can be sure they will all span the entire pattern and therefore all be temp synced.


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#7 MurderatØr

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 13:44

I mean, fill an entire instrument with re-hashes of a single waveform, based on auto-generated slices. Each rehash will be the same pitch, same waveform length of course. 

 

 

Btw with regard to Duplex, Grid Pie etc., l've decided to be minimalistic and try to master the basics, that way l will be able to troubleshoot things myself when l use more complex tools + I will be able to master the more complex tools quickly. Renoise can actually do a decent live performance without tools, as l've recently discovered, but l can see where Duplex, Grid Pie etc. fit in - to give human feel to a performance, to match the crowd's feeling at that moment in time.


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#8 MurderatØr

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 03:53

Even more ideas - perhaps have the following settings as a "Live Template" for Renoise:

 

- Newly opened songs / mods must retain the original soundcard audio routing settings of the previous song, or at least give a choice: Deck A soundcard settings or Deck B soundcard settings? Keep for remainder of time that the Renoise instance is running, even if new songs are loaded (Yes or No)?

- When opening a new song, the first track soundcard routing-panning-volume-width dialog box to appear should be for the Master track, not Track 1

- When opening a new song, have the pattern loop button activated by default

- When pattern loop is on, pressing the top left Play button (i.e. the main play buttin, not the "currently playing this song position" one in the Matrix View) must play the start of the looped pattern at that song position, not automatically flip out and loop the pattern at the first song position. Actually, when you get used to it, it's not so bad. BUT: if you enable the main Play button to loop the current pattern, it can be controlled via MIDI to give a Beat Sync tool (if you already have tempo matched between 2 Renoise instances) for a pattern that is being cued up and fed into the mix.

- The current playing position in the song sequence is highlighted, so you can identify it easily when you don't have Pattern Follow enabled

- Option to place boxes on the main screen, showing the Audio (soundcard) and MIDI preferences, i.e. no need to access them via a menu

- In Oscilloscope View, keep the Master track a distinct colour from the others, perhaps allow the user to choose, e.g. very dark (because he doesn't need to see it, he needs to see individual tracks) / very bright (because he needs to know NOT to press it and toggle it off)

- As l keep saying, perhaps have at least the option to overlay oscilloscope view onto the actual tracker display, just like in OctaMed, perhaps with a groovy amplitude level bar for each track too. This is so that you can more intuitively kill / enable individual tracks during Live play - you can't always headphone cue, because sometimes you might have another Renoise instance going to the 2nd audio out, therefore you cannot make mistakes when toggling tracks on the Renoise instance you're working with right now (if it's all audible, all in the mix), as everything that is playing goes to the 1st audio out.

- Give the total song length for any tempo i.e. for any song speed, so that you have an idea of how much time you have left before the song ends / re-starts

 

 

Harder Stuff:

 

- Toggle on / off an option to override all speed commands in a song, in favour of a global tempo you've set. Always discretely display the song's originally-intended tempo too.

- Allow beatmatching between 2 Renoise instances, by tapping a button. Indicate which Renoise instance is the master, and which is the slave

- Allow pre-listening of a mod, on the same soundcard audio channel as the one it will play on when loaded

 

 

 

Weird stuff:

 

- Allow setting min and max BPM of a song, so that you can control it with a MIDI controller and tweak that physical encoder like a freak

- Have a separate MIDI controllable button to instantly reset the BPM to your desired "normal play" BPM


Edited by MurderatØr, 16 September 2015 - 15:35.

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