I hope this hasn’t be asked before and is probably quite a peculiar question, but what is the general opinion on them? Are they any good? I use them from time to time and get decent results, but for some reason I feel guilty for using them (I can remember that some people used to criticize them pretty strongly a while back).
How would you rate the quality now compared to other tools/VSTs that do a similar jobs (you can be specific concerning the effects)?
Thanks in advance.
It’s all subjective so never feel guilty about what you use, as long as it sounds good to you. If you’re picking your software/gear based on popularity and what other people think of them you wouldn’t be using a tracker to begin with. That said my opinions on the effects…
Lofimat, Ringmod, and Distortion are great for what they do
Maximizer is comparable with other hard limiters I’ve used
Cabinet Simulator is decent. I prefer the sound of the free AXP Flextron plugin as an amp sim as it has more bite in the higher range, but it ain’t bad
Delay/Multitap, EQ5/10, and a few others such as gainer and repeater are pretty much what host effects of that kind should be, they aren’t “character” effects but they do what you would expect them to
Reverb/mpReverb aren’t terrible but there are better, for free I like Voxengo OldSkoolVerb and for cheap I’ve heard great things about Valhalla’s plugins
I’m not fond of the modulation effects(Chorus, Flanger, Phaser). I use Zebrify a lot for these things and for it’s comb filter which I like just a bit better than Renoise’s(as of 3.0, haven’t tried the beta with the improved filters). I also don’t really like the Compressor or Bus Compressor but I’m content enough to just run things through Maximizer if I want to squash the dynamics and make it loud, I don’t like the effect of most compressors much to begin with and just want it to be fairly transparent
Well some are better then in previous versions.
But still .
-The distortion is lame …
the razor type is just a hard clipp .with a fixed frequency boost
The overdrive is a simple hyperbolic curve .+ again a fixed frequency boost
Wave wrap just …;a triangular wave wrap .
And scream …hold on …it’s just a rectifier .WOOW
Adding 8 times oversampling doesn’t change the fact that all of these types are simple math functions , which everybody could make if they would include a formala device that works @ sample rate /.
All the other effects are nice , mutitapdelay is great .( still not able to do tape style delay stuff )
Convolver is good ( better freeware out there …that’s also zero latency …liquidsonics )
Chorus is nice
Phaser etc …;
All in all .;they get the job done .
I like using all native (or mostly native with some freeware) effects because it makes it very easy to share songs with my friends using renoise, and even between my own computers.
I’m not very knowledgeable about their inner workings and about how they stack up to alternatives out there at all, so having seen some comments bashing native effects I were hesitant to rely on them as well, but ever since I tried it I never felt I lacked much at all, save for some things that are just not available.
Not like I wouldn’t want to see them improve, in whatever way they can.
They’re good enough and I’m never installing VSTs again. Waste of time.
Love being away on another PC or lunch at work or something, just install Renoise, double click a track from my Dropbox folder and that’s it, works.
You want more click? More body? Use multiple compressors in parallel effects chains. In the end if you treat your sounds right, and if you have an ear for it, nobody will be able to determine if you used native Renoise stuff or thousands of dollars worth of Waves garbage.
It’s all about seasoning individual sounds, there isn’t an objective “better quality” to be achieved. Sometimes a subtle touch of bit reduction, a few passes of compression (and even a chorus or whatever) can turn a weak cardboard snare into an interesting sound of your own. Combine several reverbs and an impulse response into something just as good as an elaborate Valhalla plugin preset.
Don’t waste your time with redundant tools when you already have a powerful and efficient one sitting in front of you.
Also, simple native effects help you find your own sound. You get tighter control over fewer parameters, and when you stack them you see how they react to each other. Just set up a few tracks and experiment, try placing your bassline in the track that you originally intended for your high hats, who knows what will happen. Then render that sound and put it back in the bassline track. You can get way deep in sound design like that, intuitively without much creative block.
Meanwhile if you’re blindly poking at Omnisphere or Aether or something then you’ll be far less likely to do something compelling. Either you’ll go stale with the presets or descend into total wank.
Just choose the most comfortable workflow for yourself, even if it contradicts the above. If you enjoy a bunch of floating windows with goofy 3D GUIs then go for it, maybe that variety gets you going, but don’t concern yourself with “quality”.
I have only used the delay and it acheived what I wanted.
Still exploring a seemingly abyssic realm of possibilites. Much to learn.
Whilst I find it can be helpful to be recommended industry preffered (or measuring to a perceived industry standard), If it makes a unique sound, that’s enough for me. It can be used.
As previously suggested, in conjunction with other fx to create even more unique sounds and effects.
All just tools in the tool box.
Also, clogging up a session with vsts will put strain on the cpu. Dependant on the system, using native only may improve performance. Whatever works for you.
I let my ears tell me.
and they tell me peculiar things.
Very cpu efficient stuff, you can stack dozend of effects without cpu drag, miles ahead of common pro vsts.
Very plain and simple stuff, it would just do the simple effection without coloring and fancy overdrive behaviour, no bells an whistles.
Sometimes a bit funky and quirky in their works (compressors, distortion), but still usable musically within limits then. Very cheap algorithms seemingly of amateur niveau sometimes, but still can be worked with and relied on.
You get what you pay for, renoise is reasonably cheap and all of these effects are within that price tag.
Don’t expect to reach up to pro vsts in terms of audio quality or marketing talk like “analog character”. But much more cpu efficient. Lots of lots of fun to stack up dozends of effects in parallel send tracks to do complicated sound design in realtime, where vsts would already kill your cpu lots of, forcing you to resample everything in multiple steps to get your big sound.
Yes, and it’s cool not to be dependent on vst mayhem with crashes and keeping versions for old tunes and the like. For me on Linux it’s dealbringing to have those effects there at all, as native vsts are rather rare.
If it isn’t enough for you for some purpose, you can still get that vst that will do the job better, noboy forces you to use the native effects.
The native instruments and effects are fine and I think their sound quality has improved with the new beta. I like using Renoise more as a traditional tracker than a vst host for the most part because I can modify and mangle samples in a way that can’t be done to “live” vst outputs. Also, as Name User points out, using the native instruments and effects allows you to experiment and better understand how things work without the distractions you can easily find in trying to learn some beast of a synth. A craftsman understands his or her tools …
Cheers.
Wow, so many replies so quickly. What a great forum.
I totally agree. I am used to native effects in Renoise and I usually get the most interesting, unique sounding results out of it (almost infinite possiblities/arrangements in how one can combine the various effect chains, modulations etc) + I despise using VST’s (especially if you they’re complex and you don’t know what you’re doing and therefore lose control over the sound) and would actually like to stick to Renoise and if needed, program some stuff on my own in Max or PD. Simplicity (+ a bit of limitation) is key IMO. How could I benefit from more, strenuous learning curves at this point?
The reason why I created this thread is probably because I feel that there is an invisible spectrum that I cannot hear, but that trained ears are able to perceive and those would end up judging it. It doesn’t make any sense as I don’t release anything and make it purely for myself…So the reason I tend to lean more to effects units or established VST’s is because the pro’s recommend and so I get a sense of security. Perhaps I am the victim of a psychological marketing strategy. Or it’s just my inner perfectionism.
The reason why I created this thread is probably because I feel that there is an invisible spectrum that I cannot hear, but that trained ears are able to perceive and those would end up judging it.
No worries. My dog only listens to classical baroque period music … 
Wow, so many replies so quickly. What a great forum.
I totally agree. I am used to native effects in Renoise and I usually get the most interesting, unique sounding results out of it (almost infinite possiblities/arrangements in how one can combine the various effect chains, modulations etc) + I despise using VST’s (especially if you they’re complex and you don’t know what you’re doing and therefore lose control over the sound) and would actually like to stick to Renoise and if needed, program some stuff on my own in Max or PD. Simplicity (+ a bit of limitation) is key IMO. How could I benefit from more, strenuous learning curves at this point?
The reason why I created this thread is probably because I feel that there is an invisible spectrum that I cannot hear, but that trained ears are able to perceive and those would end up judging it. It doesn’t make any sense as I don’t release anything and make it purely for myself…So the reason I tend to lean more to effects units or established VST’s is because the pro’s recommend and so I get a sense of security. Perhaps I am the victim of a psychological marketing strategy. Or it’s just my inner perfectionism.
If you want peace of mind, work on listening. Your ears are the best judge. Use a reference track. And when applying fx, compare it to that and also your unprocessed sound. Listen to how it sounds in the mix. Also ask yourself if the fx have improved the sound, if not, try something else.
I did try a few fx on a track last night, mainly eq and limiting and it wasn’t too bad.
The reason why I created this thread is probably because I feel that there is an invisible spectrum that I cannot hear, but that trained ears are able to perceive and those would end up judging it. It doesn’t make any sense as I don’t release anything and make it purely for myself…So the reason I tend to lean more to effects units or established VST’s is because the pro’s recommend and so I get a sense of security. Perhaps I am the victim of a psychological marketing strategy. Or it’s just my inner perfectionism.
Effects, such as chorus, phaser, flanger etc. are all about sound creation, less about sound engineering. With that in mind, their “quality” doesn really matter if you like the results that you get. For example I use the built-in distortion quite often and I believe that despite it’s simplicity, it does it’s job. On the other hand, if I want an overdrive-type effect that sounds more like a real guitar amp - I look elsewhere.
As for the EQs and compressors, that’s another matter entirely. For whatever reason I was never really happy with the built-in EQ. If only for the lack of neat interface, but also because of some superficial sound quality. I recommend checking out Vladg’s Nova 67P, as a great freeware parametric EQ, but if the built-in one works for you, it’s not like your audience will write angry e-mails about your usage of the built-in EQ, or compressor.
On the other hand, there’s no reason to limit yourself to the built-in stuff, unless you’re really concerned with exchangability. These days there are many amazing plugins available out there, even the free ones. Check out Vladg’s Molot compressor, or the wonderful Nova 67P EQ. The old Kjaerhus Classic plugins are still useful, and I adore their delay, chorus and phaser. MeldaProductions offers a large set of extremely useful plugins aswell. Try them out! There’s no reason not to.
Still, some power-users, such as Keith303, are able to create some skull-crackingly amazing songs with just samples and built-in Renoise effects. It’s a neat challenge in it’s own right, if only because of the built-in DSP’s inherent simplicity.
Long story short - use EVERYTHING you can lay your hands on.
^ 666 posts.
All of the external plugins I use are free at the moment, some in particular i would rate as good if not better than payed ones.
As far as the native eq, I just used It to cut out some low frequencies.last night, some minor boosts too and it seem to work fine for me.
On the other hand, there’s no reason to limit yourself to the built-in stuff, unless you’re really concerned with exchangability.
There’s also a degree of future proofing involved there, sometimes plugins just disappear from the web or become too out of date and buggy, using host effects is safer by comparison. I use VSTs but I’ve become more and more sparing with them for these reasons, lots of old projects that don’t load properly and then I have to rework them with newer effects, and if I wanted to share an xrns I wouldn’t want any VST dependency at all.
Also good point. Have come across this updating plugins from 32 bit to 64.
I wish there was a 64bit version of the quadrafuzz. If I ever learnt how to make a vst, that would be top of the list.
Long story short - use EVERYTHING you can lay your hands on.
I wasted 10 years doing that. Unfinished tracks in all these different DAWs, using so many pointless instruments and effects.
They’re just GUIs, they don’t do anything. The reviews, specsheets, or that extra 0.5db of undistorted gain isn’t going to help you finish a single track or make it good.
I really dislike the compressor but I tend to use everything else a lot, I prefer to use native if I can. The EQ could be better (mid/side) but it works for me most of the time.
Sometimes I like the modulation devices and sometimes I don’t, they seem to be much more material dependent than others I’ve tried, which is good and bad I suppose.
I wasted 10 years doing that. Unfinished tracks in all these different DAWs, using so many pointless instruments and effects.
They’re just GUIs, they don’t do anything. The reviews, specsheets, or that extra 0.5db of undistorted gain isn’t going to help you finish a single track or make it good.
I also feel like I wasted a lot of time on a vst frenzy. Mostly to no avail too.
More so because I didn’t really know what I was doing.
I think some plugins can still color the sound in a unique way that can be useful,
but I trust my ears for judgement and not hype or documentation.
I have streamlined to a small selection of plugins that I avoid using needlessly now.
I do beleive that even the “best” fx are useless if you don’t know what you’re doing.
No tool can ever make a peice of music good I agree, that responsibility rests entirely on the shoulders of it’s creator.
I find the process is the most important part of creating too. It seems a shame to cut corners and miss out on the experience unnecessarily. Especially if it is just to avoid labor.
I tend also to be skeptical nowadays, of quick fixes to parts of the process that I not only engage in, but enjoy laboring over.
Working with limited or simplified resources, will mean also you get the most out of them because you can only really rely on yourself.
I can remember having to save for a drum machine and using it all the time once i got it.
I squeezed so much out of that thing. I think it was because I gove it a lot of time and it was all that I had.
I really dislike the compressor
do you?! i always use it on kicks/snares, its great