sampling external stuff, what is your set-up? Tips?

Slowly, but surely acquiring more and more external gear/soundsources to sample from I’m getting fed up swapping cables around at the back of my soundcard and am looking for a good, flexible solution.

As far as I can see there are three options, either a soundcard with plenty of inputs, a bigger mixer with an option to route the channels to my soundcards line input or using a patchbay(s) solution.

A new soundcard is out of the question because I’m not planning to multi-track audio at the same time, record a band or a lot of synths/gear. Same for buying a bigger mixer, I’d mainly use the stereo channel of my desktop send to the monitors. I think both would be a waste of energy consumption, because I mostly power on the stuff I want to sample, the moment I want to sample :slight_smile: .

So patchbays than, unfamiliar with them, but they look pretty straight forward. I’ve been recommended this one;

https://www.thomann.de/nl/neutrik_nys_spp_patchbay.htm

…and using balanced jacks with them. With the main cost looking to be the cables, not the rack unit itself.

Are there more things to look out for using these? Sound-quality loss? Phantom power shenanigans?

The behringer units also have switches on the top, are these different modes important to have;

ls8q4usx5dar9hk5gzqu.jpg

I do a lot of sampling (15 years, several terabytes :)), and honestly one of my best tips is to make use of the (free) ReaFIR plugin for managing unwanted noise. I have an old JX-10 whose outputs are a bit noisy; using ReaFIR’s “Subtract” function eliminates the noise/hum completely with no audible loss of quality to the sample. It can also be used for super-precise compression and EQ, as in, if you need/want to eliminate or reduce or emphasize only a very tiny frequency range, ReaFIR does it easily. It’s by far my go-to tool when sampling outboard stuff.

If you plan to make stuff available for others to download, I’d recommend giving them as close to “raw” samples as possible, I’ve found people generally prefer to saturate, EQ, etc. the samples themselves. If they’re just for you, obviously make them to taste.

Uhmmm, lemme think. Another thing, if possible consider sampling at a high rate (96kHz/32bits, say) and then using a good downsampler like SoX to reduce the samples to 44.1kHz/24bits, if you want smaller file sizes.

I have a 6 input mixer running stereo into my converter. I’m not sure if a patch bay is what you’re looking for if it doesn’t sum signals. My impression was that patch bays pass signals in one to one to one from front to back so you can choose where to rout signals, but without a good number of inputs on your soundcard, I don’t believe this is the right application. If you just want many sources to rout to the same input, I think a mixer or a summing box is your best bet. +1 for sampling in general!

I am also interested in this. I think a patchbay could work. Suppose you have one stereo input on your audio interface, then you can connect patchbay slots 1 and 2 to it and your gear to record on the other slots (all on the back of the patchbay). Then, whenever you want to record something, you need to patch this on the front of the patchbay into slots 1 and 2.

The only thing I am not so sure about is how patchbays handle microphones (especially if they need phantom power).

I guess the best solution would be to have a 4 inputs on the audio interface: 1 and 2 are mics, 3 and 4 are Line. Then you would have patchbay channels 1 and 2 for mics and 3 and 4 for Line devices. Just make sure then to not patch Line into mic inputs :slight_smile:

Concerning a small mixer, I have to say that I am looking for one for quite some time now and I have not found anything that allows for monitoring in a home recording setup (not too surprising as most mixers are made for live mixing). Also, some people have brought up concerns about a mixer, being active, introducing more noise, compared to a passive patchbay.

A patchbay will be a big help. Here’s the one I use: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SPatchPlus

The switches matter, because they let you control signal flow. Basically there are a few configurations you’ll use, all where the default is that the signal plugged into back flows from top to bottom. Depending on the switch, you can split the signal by plugging into the top, or replace the signal with whatever’s plugged in.

If you don’t have switches, you’ll have to unscrew the top and take out some cartridges and flip them around. You will never do this :slight_smile:

The great thing about the unit I linked to is that the switches are on the front. If the switches are on top, you can’t get to them if the unit is in a rack, unless of course you have space above it.

I had an old neutrik one for years. I learned my lesson about normalling options, and accessibility of switching them. The Samson is tough to beat.

I don’t think patchbays offer phantom power, at least not until they get more expensive. You could get a preamp and run its output through the patchbay however…

Oi! Thanks all for the feedback B)

… one of my best tips is to make use of the (free) ReaFIR plugin for managing unwanted noise. I have an old JX-10 whose outputs are a bit noisy; using ReaFIR’s “Subtract” function eliminates the noise/hum completely with no audible loss of quality to the sample. It can also be used for super-precise compression and EQ, as in, if you need/want to eliminate or reduce or emphasize only a very tiny frequency range, ReaFIR does it easily. It’s by far my go-to tool when sampling outboard stuff.

Thanks for the tip on ReaFIR, think I have similar plugins somewhere that can ‘learn’ the noise/frequency spectrum and subtract it from the output (fyi CDP tool also has processes that do this; specnu clean, specnu subtract), but I am not necessarily looking to clean up sounds, rather look for the crackle & pop between songs on vinyl :wink: .

I’m not sure if a patch bay is what you’re looking for if it doesn’t sum signals. My impression was that patch bays pass signals in one to one to one from front to back so you can choose where to rout signals, but without a good number of inputs on your soundcard, I don’t believe this is the right application.

I think a patchbay could work. Suppose you have one stereo input on your audio interface, then you can connect patchbay slots 1 and 2 to it and your gear to record on the other slots (all on the back of the patchbay). Then, whenever you want to record something, you need to patch this on the front of the patchbay into slots 1 and 2.

My idea exactly fladd, have the inputs from the soundcard on the first slots, other gear on the rest and be able to connect on the front of the patch-bay when necessary. I wonder though if there’s any loss in sound-quality, depending on cable (length/brand), patch-bay manufacturer? Probably negligible paranoia :slight_smile:

The only thing I am not so sure about is how patchbays handle microphones (especially if they need phantom power).

I guess the best solution would be to have a 4 inputs on the audio interface: 1 and 2 are mics, 3 and 4 are Line. Then you would have patchbay channels 1 and 2 for mics and 3 and 4 for Line devices. Just make sure then to not patch Line into mic inputs :slight_smile:

To be sure I will keep to the line inputs and use mic’s straight in the soundcard’s mic inputs, don’t want to batch-fry all my gear doing something stupid. According to a mate, you can run phantom power through a patch bay just fine, but keep in mind you can’t plug in or plug out a jack while phantom power is on.

A patchbay will be a big help. Here’s the one I use: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SPatchPlus

The switches matter, because they let you control signal flow. Basically there are a few configurations you’ll use, all where the default is that the signal plugged into back flows from top to bottom. Depending on the switch, you can split the signal by plugging into the top, or replace the signal with whatever’s plugged in.

If you don’t have switches, you’ll have to unscrew the top and take out some cartridges and flip them around. You will never do this :slight_smile:

The great thing about the unit I linked to is that the switches are on the front. If the switches are on top, you can’t get to them if the unit is in a rack, unless of course you have space above it.

I had an old neutrik one for years. I learned my lesson about normalling options, and accessibility of switching them. The Samson is tough to beat.

I don’t think patchbays offer phantom power, at least not until they get more expensive. You could get a preamp and run its output through the patchbay however…

Thanks for the link and info. Will be looking for a small rack to mount the unit in as well.

All about the USB mixer. Have been using and loving the Allen and Heath ZED14 for 4 years now.

So I ended up with 2 cheap, but sturdy Behringer patchbays hooked up in a small 19" rack ( http://www.bax-shop.nl/19-inch-rack/quiklok-rs-10-tabletop-19-inch-rack ), together with an old virtualizer that was still laying around :slight_smile: . I want to fill up the remaining rack space, but not sure which way to go… if necessary at all, besides the visual itch.

For those with a hybrid hardware/software set-up, what kind of rack-unit(s) do you find indispensable/essential/helpful/handy when it comes to your (sampling) workflow?

Everything can be done on the computer, but an intermediate hardware routing might produce extra juices B).

-Audio interface and or a line mixer

-line mixer

I’m not sure how a line mixer would fit in my scenario, as it would just offer leveling and eq’ing, right? Boosting/attenuating volume can be done on most of the sources I sample from, or done in the computer after recording…same for eq, but I like the idea of hands on tweaking a para-graphic eq, so will look out for one of those. Maybe I’m overlooking more functionality of a rackmixer?

I’ll just add one bit on the line mixer suggestion, the leveling and eqing/compressing is usually a lot more important if you are tracking (erm, recording). Using synths and stuff can be really clunky with line mixers, most only have a few stereo inputs and the gain control for synths really just isn’t important (plus splitting a stereo synth over two mono channels can be annoying). When using a multiple mic set up, line mixers are essential for many reasons. But for synths, idk I have always struggled to find a good use for a mixer in a purely synth based set up (vs a patch bay or an interface with multiple inputs, which I personally prefer). Mixers can be useful with synths, don’t get me wrong, but for this sort of use I wouldn’t go for a mixer. They aren’t meant for synths to be honest, as I said, they are much better for tracking where you need to mix and balance signals when recording (imagine having a multi mic drum set up, getting the levels right and eq’d when recording is so important). Synths are so much easier to work with esp if you aren’t doing a lot of live work (and need like 3 synths summed to another main mixer and using the same effects at once on stage), so the need to get things right along with other things just isn’t a common problem as you can just keep doing things over with no drawbacks. So a patch bay would work just fine, as long as gain staging and level management is easy to do from either the synth or software, you are gold. My 2c at least.

If it hasn’t been said, there is still a lot to get used to when using patch bays from what I recall, but that is just trouble shooting and getting levels+cabling right. Most of that info is really easy to find though.

(Note my experience with mixers has been slim, only when helping my friend record bands, never for personal use (though I have done research on them extensively when I had more than 3 external synths as I was in this same problem). My experience with patch bays is just as limited but I hope this post was useful)