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which mix sounds better?

help advice mix eq song original

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#1 Napoli

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 19:03

Hey there! I'm new around here. I'd like to know which of the 2 mixes sounds better to this song sketch. And why.  :) Thank you!
 

 

 



 



#2 Zer0 Fly

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 19:17

The second seems to have compression/limiting pushed harder, also more bass impact. Overall more loudness. The compression is pushed pretty hard, already touching the realm of the simulated effect of that peculiar muscle in the ear contracting when exposed to high volume, suggesting even more power in the sound. But this effect is maybe a bit too pronounced and noticeable, also the short clicky attack of the comp. The dynamics of the compression seem to play nicer in terms of having the ambience (reverb) ducked and then coming up stronger when silence is, I like this effect, it gives a touch of closeness to the sound that fits the music style somehow. In the first mix the ambience is just drowned in the background and never shows up, much more subtle but also a bit boring. I cannot judge the highs/clarity on the mix because of the bad soundcloud compression artifacts. The mids seemed (aside the compression/limiting effects and more general loudness) pretty similar.

 

So yes, I like the second better for its power, more bass impact, and stronger empathic effects of the sound, though the compression is maybe a bit overdone making the attacks of the transients a bit too clicky. I don't usually listen to this style of music, so maybe my point of view is centered on another direction, and more subtle effects would suit the music better? Maybe you should A/B your mix with some similar style professional mix, and compare. After all - that is what your music will be, consciously or not, compared with and even played after each other or mixed with by consumer or dj.


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#3 Napoli

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 19:31

The second seems to have compression/limiting pushed harder, also more bass impact. Overall more loudness. The compression is pushed pretty hard, already touching the realm of the simulated effect of that peculiar muscle in the ear contracting when exposed to high volume, suggesting even more power in the sound. But this effect is maybe a bit too pronounced and noticeable, also the short clicky attack of the comp. The dynamics of the compression seem to play nicer in terms of having the ambience (reverb) ducked and then coming up stronger when silence is, I like this effect, it gives a touch of closeness to the sound that fits the music style somehow. In the first mix the ambience is just drowned in the background and never shows up, much more subtle but also a bit boring. I cannot judge the highs/clarity on the mix because of the bad soundcloud compression artifacts. The mids seemed (aside the compression/limiting effects and more general loudness) pretty similar.

 

So yes, I like the second better for its power, more bass impact, and stronger empathic effects of the sound, though the compression is maybe a bit overdone making the attacks of the transients a bit too clicky. I don't usually listen to this style of music, so maybe my point of view is centered on another direction, and more subtle effects would suit the music better? Maybe you should A/B your mix with some similar style professional mix, and compare. After all - that is what your music will be, consciously or not, compared with and even played after each other or mixed with by consumer or dj.

Thank you for the great reply!
You're totally right, in the second one I was seeking for loudness, and in the first everything sounds more in the background. However, as it's supposed to be a calm/relaxing song, I really can't decide. The second one sounds clearer to me, which I like, but, as you stated, sometimes it kind of "hurts" my ears. Like it's a bit ear fatiguing, while the first is more smooth. The only reason why I can't say I'd go for the first one is because I think it's too quiet. Every good track I listen to is way louder than that. That's unfair, I can't seem to achieve that level of clarity and loudness :/



#4 toimp

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 19:48

The second one. Much louder and more clearer as you pointed out.
I would bet that the "Hmmm"-vocal would have more effect when its more stereo spread.
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#5 Napoli

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 19:54

The second one. Much louder and more clearer as you pointed out.
I would bet that the "Hmmm"-vocal would have more effect when its more stereo spread.

Thank you! 

I'm working on this song for like 1 month and still feel there's a lot of room for improvement. The humming is already very spread, but I think I can make it sound even more open if I pan the two guitar power chords lines more close to one another. I'll try that, thanks!



#6 toimp

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 20:07

... The humming is already very spread, ...


Yeah you are right. I can hear the wide spread when you(?) breathing. Maybe the humming needs to be just a little bit louder. Not sure.
I've heard your song with my sennheiser hd 650 headphones and its sounds great for me. Good job.

Edited by toimp, 05 July 2016 - 20:13.

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#7 Zer0 Fly

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 18:23

I think you shouldn't mix up the steps of mixing and mastering too much. Each has its own place in modern music production. While mixing can still be partially driven by artistic decisions, mastering is the step to get the stuff ready for release or airplay, loudness maximizing included. I'm always reading about musicians eager to have commercial results...letting their mixes be mastered by professionals to be able to get comparable stuff to other commercial releases. Even commited with each main track for itself, so the mastering engineer can do a little mixing/weighting to make the sound oozing even more than he could with a single mixdown. Done by pros - because it is one type of engineering that requires lots of experience and professional gear/plugins to get the real pro results. Also google "loudness war" for some discussions on the whereabouts and side effects of trying to get digital music as loud as possible, and the competition to make stuff equally loud or louder as other people's music.

 

I mean you should mix alright, but not aim so much for the maximum loudness in this step, rather for a musically pleasing result. There's even a rule that you should try to preserve some amount of transient spikes while mixing, resulting in lower loudness of the result, so the mastering step has more/better material to squeeze into the dynamic range and preserve the attacks or modify them to have different impact. I'd suggest you add several db headroom when you mix and compare with mastered stuff. Or use loudness meter VSTs and level in your mix and the profesional stuff to about equal loudness (volume or used dynamic range is not equal to loudness!) when ABing. And leave the loudness stuff to the mastering step, whether it be done by own effort, automatic mastering tools like aams, or by some hired professional.


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#8 Napoli

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 22:37

toimp

yeah haha, it's me breathing. I think I'll delete some humming lines and make it even lower in the mix. I don't want it to stand up like vocals normally do, but I see it's not working the way it is (neither loud nor low).
By the way, thank you for listening and I'm glad you think it sounds great. :)

 

 

OopsIFly

you're totally right. I'm really mixing up those steps. However, I'm not trying to make my mix sound as loud as commercial mixes. I just try to make it sound good and loud enough, because if it sounds good but the volume is low, when the listener turn the volume up it doesn't sound good anymore. That probably indicates the mix is muddy/not clear. So, when I try to make it sound "louder" I actually mean sound cleaner :)
But again, you are right. I was trying to get things sounding good by mixing AND ""mastering"", but I should focus on the mix and let the master channel free. Thanks!

 



#9 HeartBeatHero

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 07:36

Yep. The second one. :)


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#10 ffx

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 18:59

I like v1 more, since v2 seems to do the pump here on my speakers. That gets on nerves, in general, personally. Though in v1 I would try to limit the kick dynamic a bit, with a compression of 1:1.60 or something. Is there a side chain? If so I would make the side chain peak faster, so the bass sounds more stable, because it's not typical for genre... IMO also the hi hat delay sounds too static... Also the snare delay seems to me to have too much resonance in the lowpass or bandpass filter, because the first snare echo will have kind of strange coloration of the filter.


Edited by ffx, 07 July 2016 - 19:02.

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#11 Napoli

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 23:46

HeartBeatHero

Thanks!

 

 

ffx

Thank you for all the tips, I'll surely bear in mind everything you said while mixing. 



#12 TheBellows

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 12:49

I actually agree with ffx i think, the extra loudness in v2 sounds a bit harsher. 


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