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Help, choise studio monitors bi-amped 5-7", room 10m2, front bass

choise studio monitors monitor 5 monitor 7 monitor bi-amped

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#26 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 13:15

Take into account that HS7s have a very bad shielding, or better let's say almost none. So if you live near a mobile transmitter like me, you sometimes will hier the "be-be-beep" in the speakers. Never seen this problem here with any other vendor.

 

I wrote it down on the list! Compiling data...  ^_^

 

I have not read that many people have had problems with this...


 

This model not seems great to me. 8" would make my room very small.


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 27 November 2016 - 13:26.

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#27 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 13:21

Hard to say.  Depends on the room.   My room is maybe the same size or slightly larger.  There's a bass adjustment on the back of the speakers as well.  I sit failry close to the monitors (1 meter or so).  I'll move around a bit to check the sound but mostly I sit in one place as I adjust things.   I have them set at 50% volume and then never turn the PC to full volume.  Just too loud.     

 

I don't think the bass would be too much though if you keep the overall volume comfortable.  But room acoustics and speaker placement are going to factor in as well.

 

Whatever speakers you get you'll have to get accustomed to how they sound in your room.

 

I started mixing on so-so headphones, and when I later heard the mix on my car speakers the bass was just too strong, tracks were quite muddy.  

 

Now what I hear on the speakers are a pretty good indicator of what I'll get in the car.  (I also test things on other speakers and headphones.)

 

Thank you for this! I am seeing that it is important to equip each speaker (the rear controls). For example, Tannoy Reveal 502 does not have just rear controls, and that hurts the purchase...

 

I suppose using the HS7 in my room, I will have to regulate some rear switch to solve the bass (my main problem).

 

I'm going to have 4 listening sources:

  1. Studio Monitors (what I lack)
  2. HiFi (my Technics equipment)
  3. Headphones x2 (Intra-auditory and circumaural)
  4. Car (seedy equipment)  :smashed:

Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 27 November 2016 - 13:25.

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#28 Neurogami

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 17:35

 

Thank you for this! I am seeing that it is important to equip each speaker (the rear controls). For example, Tannoy Reveal 502 does not have just rear controls, and that hurts the purchase...

 

I suppose using the HS7 in my room, I will have to regulate some rear switch to solve the bass (my main problem).

 

I'm going to have 4 listening sources:

  1. Studio Monitors (what I lack)
  2. HiFi (my Technics equipment)
  3. Headphones x2 (Intra-auditory and circumaural)
  4. Car (seedy equipment)  :smashed:

 

 

An important step is to listen to a good set of reference tracks, on each of your speakers, so you know how well-produced music ends ups coming out on each system.

 

http://www.soundonso...wn-reference-cd

 

I have a Renoise "song" that has a dozen or so instruments that consist of short samples from a number of different songs, selected because they serve well for me as reference checks for different kinds of vocals, percussion, bass, balance, tone, etc.

 

It's not very scientific, but I can more easily sample things that are more or less in the realm of the music I produce.   



#29 anttimaatteri

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 18:38

i recommend the yamaha hs series, and if u have enough money and a room with enough space to position them far away enough form the walls, buy the smaller ones (hs7 or 5) + their subwoofer. if u have to spare evry nickle and dime then buy the big ones (HS8). if u have a small room buy the tannoys, cos the bass reflex is from frontside´.

 

yamahas have a very "analytical" clean sound, while the tannoys have, almost significantly compared to yamahas, a more bass and sub characteristic. i had both of them and i dont regeret it so far^^.

 

with a bigger room i would have bought the big yamaha hs8, not the tannoy reveal 802.

 

(info: yamaha has a dedicated hs 8s subwoofer, while tannoys have none. at least i never saw one anywhere)

 

got mine all on b-stock. so i saved some money.


Edited by anttimaatteri, 27 November 2016 - 18:39.

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#30 mclstr

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 18:55

I have the hs8s.

 

The room I compose in is small and they work quite well in small rooms.

I got them because I mix in bigger rooms from time to time as well.

 

Just because they work well in bigger rooms doesn't mean they won't work in small rooms. You don't have to mix loud, but you have that option.

 

They aren't that much bigger than the 7s, but I believe the 7s may have a more accurate midrange, while the 8s have more accurate bass. That is subjective though.



#31 f+d+k

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 21:41

Take into account that HS7s have a very bad shielding, or better let's say almost none. So if you live near a mobile transmitter like me, you sometimes will hier the "be-be-beep" in the speakers. Never seen this problem here with any other vendor.

 

I have this with my Presonus Eris E8, never had it with my old Rokit 5's G2 with the same setup. Fortunately it doesn't happen that often, but I always know 2 secs in advance when someone calls me...

 

While I'm at it: I don't notice they're getting overly hot (not as mentioned in the speaker list above).



#32 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 15:49

I includes in the list the Focal Alpha 65

 

I have found a store that sells them at a very good price (210€/u). Yes, it gets out of my initial budget, but I want to know if it's worth it. Does anyone know this model?

alpha-65.jpg

http://www.focal.com...2-alpha-65.html

http://www.hispasoni...resiones/482898

http://superbassaudi...odWRAHqg#idTab5


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 28 November 2016 - 16:21.

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#33 thalamus

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 16:15

My advice: Spend as much as you can on Monitors. If you are thinking about stretching your budget to go for Focals then do it! 

 

The secondary advice would be: Listen to them, and decide for yourself. Adams are excellent for the money and will go a long way with you.



#34 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 16:31

My advice: Spend as much as you can on Monitors. If you are thinking about stretching your budget to go for Focals then do it! 

 

The secondary advice would be: Listen to them, and decide for yourself. Adams are excellent for the money and will go a long way with you.

 

Thanks for the advice! I want to gather information before I show up at a physical store. Finally, I will have no choice but to take a trip. I'm looking for some physical stores nearby for potential listeners. This is an inconvenience for me, but I do not want to fail before I buy. Neither do I want to spend more money than necessary.

 

I want to read more opinions sooner...


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#35 thalamus

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 16:54

Of course, before you spend any amount of money on better speakers (and it's boring, I know) - you really ought to address any major acoustic problems in the room.

 

Simply put; if your room is acoustically bad, no speaker on this earth will make it sound good. And the room is just as important a factor in listening as the output device.


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#36 mclstr

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 17:22

 

 

Simply put; if your room is acoustically bad, no speaker on this earth will make it sound good. And the room is just as important a factor in listening as the output device.

 

Yes, acoustics are important. Distance from your monitors makes a big difference though. 

 

In many cases you can't avoid acoustical problems other than throwing some rugs and such to help with a room that is too live.

 

If you have to work in a room that is small and/or bad acoustics, stay close to the monitors. The closer you get to your monitors the less bad acoustics come into play.



#37 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 20:22

I include in the list the Pioneer S-DJ60X.

s-dj60x-angle.jpg

https://www.pioneerd...black/overview/


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#38 mars.64

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 21:18

You should add the Mackie's to your list! 

 

http://mackie.com/pr...ts/mrmk3-series

61ufdqKH3AL._SL1300_.jpg


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#39 OopsIFly

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 22:45

Ok, so you got every budget to midrange model on your list. Looking forward to what you will say after having played your chosen files over some models in the shop. Not choose the one that will make stuff sound sappy, choose the one where you have the strongest feeling of having everything in the mix presented in a cold and honest way, intense but still balanced. Making stuff sound cool on those will make it sound even better everywhere else.

 

I just want to give you another pointer to watch out for: you maybe have some prefered volume for working. Some like it real hot all the time, others have neighbors or sensitive ears, and like working with lower volumes, and only rise a bit for final stages. As you said bass is important for you (I wish you better luck with your room than I had with my try!), you should try adjusting the speakers in the shop to the levels you like working with most, and see if bass is still clear and punchy. Especially, as I know that some of the larger speakers can be tuned for loud action and might suffer relative lack of bass when played at lower levels. I also say this as you mentioned a small room with little distance in the triangle, so lower volumes going on by default.



#40 ffx

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 23:09

Or this:

20c268220fec2a6ed1f2a6c8de005f5b.jpg


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#41 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 23:27

You should add the Mackie's to your list! 

 

http://mackie.com/pr...ts/mrmk3-series

 

Thanks!

 

I also add this model in the list...


Ok, so you got every budget to midrange model on your list. Looking forward to what you will say after having played your chosen files over some models in the shop. Not choose the one that will make stuff sound sappy, choose the one where you have the strongest feeling of having everything in the mix presented in a cold and honest way, intense but still balanced. Making stuff sound cool on those will make it sound even better everywhere else.

 

I just want to give you another pointer to watch out for: you maybe have some prefered volume for working. Some like it real hot all the time, others have neighbors or sensitive ears, and like working with lower volumes, and only rise a bit for final stages. As you said bass is important for you (I wish you better luck with your room than I had with my try!), you should try adjusting the speakers in the shop to the levels you like working with most, and see if bass is still clear and punchy. Especially, as I know that some of the larger speakers can be tuned for loud action and might suffer relative lack of bass when played at lower levels. I also say this as you mentioned a small room with little distance in the triangle, so lower volumes going on by default.

 

Thank you very much for the tips! I will keep it in mind...

 

@FFX, This speaker for the salon!!! :panic:


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 30 November 2016 - 23:28.

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#42 mars.64

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 17:18

mj2.jpg

 

JLAd9.gif

 

ok i'm done nonsensing. good luck op!


Edited by mars.64, 01 December 2016 - 17:19.

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#43 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 19:41

mj2.jpg

 

JLAd9.gif

 

ok i'm done nonsensing. good luck op!

 

Every time I go in, I laugh at this mars.64!!!   :yeah:  :yeah:  :yeah:  :yeah:

 

I hope to get my pair of monitors at the end of the year. Many thanks to all for helping !!!


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#44 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 21:27

Alesis Elevate 6 Active, 125€


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#45 Vozka

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 19:28

From those you posted I've only heard JBL LSR305, Yamaha HS5, Adam F5 and Alesis Elevate 6 Active. Other than that I've heard 8 inch versions of Yamahas and Mackies and 5 and 8 inch versions of KRKs.

 

Based on all this I fully recommend buying the JBL LSR305, it's an incredible deal. In fact I have not found any significantly better small monitors until you get to Genelecs, which cost almost 3x as much here (and have less bass extension, but otherwise are obviously better at everything). 

 

They are the cheapest natural sounding speakers I know of at the moment. That's a good thing, I don't believe in hyped speakers sounding better or in flat speakers sounding unnatural unless you listen at very high volumes. They're not completely flat, but imo the best you can get thanks to very good power-response. They also have controlled directivity which is something you definitely want in a small room - fewer reflections. A bass reflex in the back is a bit worse close to a wall than a bass reflex in the front, but you will always get boundary effects with a speaker close to a wall, even without a bass reflex. Plugging the bass reflex with an old t-shirt can help, but with such a small room you will *never* get accurate bass without measuring the frequency response and compensating for room modes (resonances that make bumps and holes in the frequency response often larger than 15 dB and that are very difficult to get rid of using room treatment). Room modes have way larger influence on what you hear than how flat the speaker's bass is, if it's not a completely shit speaker, especially in such a tiny room. Buying a cheap measuring mic is definitely something I recommend in the future if you don't want to always work on bass using headphones.

 

A bit about my perception of the others:

Alesis Elevate 6 Active: overall not very good, I think the M1 Active MK2 was the last good monitor from Alesis

Yamaha HS5: Relatively detailed, but very tinny, no bass, definitely not neutral. Have not heard the HS7, but HS8 is pretty bad as well - agressive mid-treble, lack of mids, inflated bass.

Adam F5: Detailed, no bass, too aggressive mid-treble (fatiguing to me), bad directivity (treble beaming), bad stereo imaging

KRK: 5 inchers are possibly the worst monitors I've heard. Boxy, no subbass, hyped midbass. This will not help you make music that will sound good on other bad speakers because there are infinite other ways for other peoples speakers to sound bad. 8 inch version is better, but imo a not very good speaker overall - not particularly detailed, not particularly flat, not even particularly pleasant to listen to, obviously bad directivity...

Mackie: have only heard the 8 inch version, which is absolutely horrible - inflated bass, no mids. For this reason alone I'd be very cautious, but then again, the MK2 series was good (both 5 inch and 8 inch, 6 inch didn't exist), so maybe they haven't screwed up the smaller ones. 



#46 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 21:11

From those you posted I've only heard JBL LSR305, Yamaha HS5, Adam F5 and Alesis Elevate 6 Active. Other than that I've heard 8 inch versions of Yamahas and Mackies and 5 and 8 inch versions of KRKs.

 

Based on all this I fully recommend buying the JBL LSR305, it's an incredible deal. In fact I have not found any significantly better small monitors until you get to Genelecs, which cost almost 3x as much here (and have less bass extension, but otherwise are obviously better at everything). 

 

They are the cheapest natural sounding speakers I know of at the moment. That's a good thing, I don't believe in hyped speakers sounding better or in flat speakers sounding unnatural unless you listen at very high volumes. They're not completely flat, but imo the best you can get thanks to very good power-response. They also have controlled directivity which is something you definitely want in a small room - fewer reflections. A bass reflex in the back is a bit worse close to a wall than a bass reflex in the front, but you will always get boundary effects with a speaker close to a wall, even without a bass reflex. Plugging the bass reflex with an old t-shirt can help, but with such a small room you will *never* get accurate bass without measuring the frequency response and compensating for room modes (resonances that make bumps and holes in the frequency response often larger than 15 dB and that are very difficult to get rid of using room treatment). Room modes have way larger influence on what you hear than how flat the speaker's bass is, if it's not a completely shit speaker, especially in such a tiny room. Buying a cheap measuring mic is definitely something I recommend in the future if you don't want to always work on bass using headphones.

 

A bit about my perception of the others:

Alesis Elevate 6 Active: overall not very good, I think the M1 Active MK2 was the last good monitor from Alesis

Yamaha HS5: Relatively detailed, but very tinny, no bass, definitely not neutral. Have not heard the HS7, but HS8 is pretty bad as well - agressive mid-treble, lack of mids, inflated bass.

Adam F5: Detailed, no bass, too aggressive mid-treble (fatiguing to me), bad directivity (treble beaming), bad stereo imaging

KRK: 5 inchers are possibly the worst monitors I've heard. Boxy, no subbass, hyped midbass. This will not help you make music that will sound good on other bad speakers because there are infinite other ways for other peoples speakers to sound bad. 8 inch version is better, but imo a not very good speaker overall - not particularly detailed, not particularly flat, not even particularly pleasant to listen to, obviously bad directivity...

Mackie: have only heard the 8 inch version, which is absolutely horrible - inflated bass, no mids. For this reason alone I'd be very cautious, but then again, the MK2 series was good (both 5 inch and 8 inch, 6 inch didn't exist), so maybe they haven't screwed up the smaller ones. 

Wow, I love reading these kinds of answers, which is really what I seek, direct opinions. I was thinking of waiting for the end of January, after of the Namm 2017, is possible for brands to bring up new studio monitors.

 

The JBLs have the bass reflex rear, the only thing that prevents me from deciding for them. I was very curious about the Alesis Elevate 6 Active, but do not look very good. I look for something very balanced and flat, with bass reflex frontal. I was about to buy the Focal Alpha 65, but does not include volume wheel. Tannoy Reveal 502 are the ones I like most of all, but many people have complained about electrical noise from the amplifier. I will listen to many moments with silences in the songs, and I hate the electric noise. I would not be able to stand it. Do you know this model (Tannoy Reveal 502)?

 

I'm not in a hurry to buy the two monitors, and I would not mind spending more, if I know the money is well invested. Nor do I want to rush and see after the Namm that better monitors have been published.

 

Thank you very much for your answer!!!


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#47 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 00:05

Interesting:


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#48 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 00:46

Gemini SR-6

GeminiPRO-SR-6-01-893x490.jpg

 

http://geminisound.com/sr-series


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#49 vitaminx

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 17:24

I recommend this near-field studio monitors, but only if front bass outlet is not 100% mandatory for you:

https://www.thomann....udio_bx8_d2.htm

 

M-Audio BX8 D2

289 EUR / pair

  • Components: 8" Kevlar woofer + 1.25" tweeter with Waveguide
  • 130 Watt Bi-amping amplifier with crossover
  • Frequency range: 30 - 24,000 Hz
  • Magnetically shielded
  • Balanced thomann XLR and balanced / unbalanced jack inputs
  • Volume control
  • Dimensions (H x W x D): 381 x 254 x 304 mm
  • Weight: 10.90 kg / piece

 

+ the sound is top notch

+ bi-amped

+ really good material (kevlar membrane!)

+ low end makes subwoofer obsolete (30Hz)

- quite big and heavy (but i guess that contributes to the good sound)

 

There's a smaller variant of the monitors, half as big, but I haven't tested them:

https://www.thomann....udio_bx5_d2.htm


Edited by vitaminx, 14 January 2017 - 17:27.

[media][/media]


#50 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 03:09

@VitaminX. Thanks for the recommendation!  :wacko: I knew the name of the model and its features, but for some reason I completely forgot about this M-Audio model. I'm going to add it to the list (comment #1). The 8 "model I think is very large for the size of my room. I think the 5 "model would suffice.

 

I am going to be attentive in the Namm 2017 and I will make a review of all the marks in case they take out some new model similar to the range I'm looking for. At the moment, I think KRK has released a new serie of studio monitors recently.


:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler