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Recommend me a new DAW.


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#51 TanookiMonk

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 04:51

Well well well... This discussion happens all the time after a big renoise updates. Big updates take times to create and time to polish. In fact the only things that user always ask for is News from the team. News about what they work on and future of renoise. But the team don't seem to work that way... Look at this like a girl that does make any sound in the act but squirt the updates at the right time ;)



#52 4kb

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 05:43

meh


Edited by 4kb, 05 December 2016 - 06:41.


#53 Mivo

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 02:36

+1 for HiDPI support. This isn't something for high end computers any more, I picked up a second hand laptop in a third world country and renoise looks like it is made for ants. I could live with everything else as it is currently but this support makes renoise not far from unusable without less than perfect workarounds.

For me this is really what my future with Renoise hinges on. I tried, and I end up with eyestrain every time I use it on 1440p. So I can either ignore that I have a beefy 5820k desktop and make music on a several years old 1080p laptop with headphones, or I use a DAW that supports high-dpi displays at least in some way. I already own the Producer Edition of FL Studio, which does have support for high-dpi monitors and high resolutions. I would much rather continue to use Renoise, but if this improvement isn't even on the horizon (Sunvox now has some font scaling also), I may have to bite the bullet and settle for something that I know will also support (offer scaling for) higher and 4k resolutions, because that's what I'll likely upgrade to eventually, in a couple years.

 

Or I do the laptop thing, but that would essentially just be buying time. I would do it if Taktik said that high-dpi support will be implemented in two or three years, because that's an OK time frame for me (probably not for others), but considering the slow development times for Renoise, which I generally don't mind, paired with "we're working on something else", well, it's not promising no matter how much I'd like to believe (and be told) differently.


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#54 Andrey Marchenko

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 04:35

Folks, can someone create screenshot how Renoise looks on 1440p? I saw that Vorpal using Renoise on iMac and as i can see it's ok.

 

Screen_Shot_2016_12_06_at_13_31_47.png



#55 boonier

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 14:06

This is cool, have you managed to get Renoise wrapped by Bidule?

 

Yeah what's going on 'ere then? 

 

It should be noted that (for me at least) running Renoise as a slave doesn't show multiple inputs up in the master host, and midi is non existant. So probably should be added to the list of bug fix to dos?

 

Edit - the audio inputs DO show up, sorry. The MIDI is a problem (so controlling the instruments in Renoise over the rewire bus).


Edited by boonier, 06 December 2016 - 23:34.


#56 mclstr

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:30

Re: "The MIDI is a problem (so controlling the instruments in Renoise over the rewire bus"

 

Sorry, but I am on Linux. I have no problem connecting midi and audio between Renoise and the other DAWs that I use.

I thought Jack also worked with Windows and Mac?

 

I personally prefer to keep my DAWs seperate running audio and midi over the Jack buss connection. I don't see the advantage with running Renoise inside a wrapper of some other DAW?


Edited by mclstr, 07 December 2016 - 02:31.


#57 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 20:32

Following with the thread. I've been seeing some news from FL Studio v12.4, and Cubase v9.0, all fresh out now. It's great, the developers do not fall asleep.

 

I leave a couple of official videos, to have a reference of what they have cooked:

 

FL Studio 12.4:

 

Cubase 9.0

These are the 2 programs that I recommend, if you are willing to pay for a license.

 

@Roppenzo. The new version 12.4 of FL Studio is fine. The license is for life, and although it costs twice as much as Renoise's license, it will not disappoint you. On the internet there are tons of information about these two products, magnificent to produce.

 

It seems that the end of the year serves developers to compete with their new versions...



#58 GrooveMastaPutz

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 20:56

Just wanted to say I'm thoroughly impressed with the community's more or less ability to have an adult, resonable conversation about the fact that wants to use another DAW.

 

Some people get fairly offended, but otherwise most people were pretty respectable. I personally will probably use renoise til the day I die, but there are a lot of good programs out there to get funky with that can be used in conjunction with renoise!

 

However, renoise will never die.



#59 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 21:25

Following with the thread. I've been seeing some news from FL Studio v12.4, and Cubase v9.0, all fresh out now. It's great, the developers do not fall asleep.

 

I leave a couple of official videos, to have a reference of what they have cooked:

 

FL Studio 12.4:

 

Cubase 9.0

These are the 2 programs that I recommend, if you are willing to pay for a license.

 

@Roppenzo. The new version 12.4 of FL Studio is fine. The license is for life, and although it costs twice as much as Renoise's license, it will not disappoint you. On the internet there are tons of information about these two products, magnificent to produce.

 

It seems that the end of the year serves developers to compete with their new versions...

Can't compare ..really can't ..

Those developers are paid on a monthly basis .

 

About cubase new features ..' the lower zone ' ... they had a good look at reaper ..

If I can recommend the op a new program , go for reaper ...stunning features and verry deep ..prepare for a ( steep ) learning curve .

The included js scripting language gives you all the effects you need .


Edited by gentleclockdivider, 09 December 2016 - 21:28.

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THERE IS NO TRUTH SUPERIOR TO THE ONE I CHOOSE

C'EST MIEUX D'ETRE BELLE ET REBELLE


QUE MOCHE ET REMOCHE



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#60 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 23:48

Can't compare ..really can't ..

Those developers are paid on a monthly basis .

 

About cubase new features ..' the lower zone ' ... they had a good look at reaper ..

If I can recommend the op a new program , go for reaper ...stunning features and verry deep ..prepare for a ( steep ) learning curve .

The included js scripting language gives you all the effects you need .

 

I am not comparing, but rather attaching data on both products. Interestingly now at the end of the year, both released new versions. They are two products that I see more interesting. It is my opinion. I guess the price will interest the buyer.

 

On the other hand, Ableton Live I do not like it that much. I have been able to run Pro Tools for some time at a friend's house, and I find it overly expensive. However, my friend uses Pro Tools. He has more money :blush:. Now I do not know how it goes, I do not have recent reference.

 

However, I've never used Reaper. And Bitwig I still see it a little green, from what I saw this summer. Of the DAWs I know, I contribute FL Studio and Cubase. Even more with the new versions. Every DAW is a world, some video does no harm. The important thing is to be happy with the DAW.

 

That said, I have prediction for 2 DAWs, FL Studio (its price is not crazy) and Renoise. FL Studio 12 has a very nice GUI now. Even so, my main DAW remains Renoise, despite the slow development, of its outdated GUI, etc. Also, I'm immersed in the LUA code, and I can customize some features that Renoise does not include. It's one more toy for me.  ^_^ But I understand that scriping LUA is not an excuse not to develop Renoise properly. Sometimes it seems that if something does not work, the solution is to create a tool. And that's something I do not like.  Maybe Roppenzo be sad with Renoise because of these things. Learning LUA is not easy, and requires a lot of time, and many things can not be fixed, because they are internal, under the hood.

 

However, I think faithfully that Renoise has a lot of life ahead. There is no problem that some user tries another DAW. If you've used Renoise for a long time, you'll end up coming back. Because Renoise is the unique tracker, and it has its point.



#61 ffx

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 12:37

Mmmmmh, they releasing now of course because xmas selling? People tend to buy lot of useless stuff before xmas...

 

Well I am the one with that opinion, but for me Cubase become so non creative regarding features, since..... 10 years?  Ok, it most complete, and most things are very solid. So this tiny little sampler already HAS SPLINE CURVES!! WHY NOT RENOISE???  Mixer undo is only for pro version.... pah...



#62 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 14:06

Mmmmmh, they releasing now of course because xmas selling? People tend to buy lot of useless stuff before xmas...

 

Maybe, but if you check the update history of FL Studio, launch a new version every 4 months, about 3 for year, approximately: http://www.image-lin...dio/history.php | http://www.image-lin...io-124-released

 

On the other hand, Cubase update at the end of the year: https://en.wikipedia...teinberg_Cubase | http://download.stei...ion_History.pdf

 

Fl Studio and Cubase has the business well assembled, dividing into bundles. For more information, Cubase 9 is multi-lingual, Fl Studio 12 is available in English only (If you are German, French or Spanish, you must resign yourself).


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#63 robohymn

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 23:14

Renoise isn't dead, no. Maybe they're working more on something that integrates a tracker approach within other DAWs, like Redux but deeper. I'd love to see that, some kind of portable tracker interface that can replace the piano roll in other DAWs, without ReWire, deeper than Redux's relatively limited phrases. But, what a nightmare to keep it compatible with all hosts; how to implement the integration in the first place in each one; etc. So who knows? Another thing would maybe be a mobile version that acts mainly as a (tracker-interface) MIDI sequencer for driving outboard hardware (lots of people getting back into hardware these days), could be great.

 

I've got a workflow using Reaper and Renoise together that works great for me, not many kinks left. It'd be nice to see the Renoise sampler get deeper, add groups like Kontakt, triggering conditionals (if/then type stuff for triggering samples), built-in batch processing for all sample processing functions (sample rate, bits, etc), maybe a clip-board type thing for scraps of audio you don't want in any current instrument but want to keep for later, things like that. Everybody's got a wish-list, I don't blame the devs at all for not paying them much mind -- I would, too. Anyway I love Renoise, even if they were to drop it I'd still use it as long as I could keep a compatible computer around.


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#64 Airmann

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 23:10

Since 2 years it's always the same. Not the smallest informations about updates. Devs are working on this and that. I'm really sick of it.

Yes, I assume Renoise is not dead, but also it seems that Renoise development ist  not kicking and alive as it was three years ago. It seems that devs are focusing on other things like Redux or some fancy new product. Maybe they have just lost the interest and fun in Renoise  development. After 15 years, maybe "die Luft ist raus" ? Maybe they  need to do something new ? I could understand it. But it would be sad, because Renoise still lacks a lot of features. IMO it's far form finished.

 

On the other hand: maybe they develop a completely new tracker based DAW from scratch. Means a complete rewrite ?

 

PEOPLE, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME !!!


Edited by Airmann, 14 December 2016 - 23:12.

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#65 Fsus4

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 00:08

Since 2 years it's always the same. Not the smallest informations about updates. Devs are working on this and that. I'm really sick of it.

Yes, I assume Renoise is not dead, but also it seems that Renoise development ist  not kicking and alive as it was three years ago. It seems that devs are focusing on other things like Redux or some fancy new product. Maybe they have just lost the interest and fun in Renoise  development. After 15 years, maybe "die Luft ist raus" ? Maybe they  need to do something new ? I could understand it. But it would be sad, because Renoise still lacks a lot of features. IMO it's far form finished.

 

On the other hand: maybe they develop a completely new tracker based DAW from scratch. Means a complete rewrite ?

 

PEOPLE, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME !!!

 

Indeed, if this particular speculation turned out to be true it would be totally awesome. Maybe also a requirement for reaching out to a much larger userbase (if that's of any concern for the devs). 

 

Maybe it's the case that taktik now has everything in place to build further on his various coding experiences (e.g. Ableton, Renoise, SupraMotion). Now if the developers' new secret project is about standalone rather than a plugin, it could very well mean an arranger for both audiotracks and video... and in the long term some internal link to access/sync the audio contents of Renoise the tracker in a bi-directional manner. Add the effects and sample mangling stuff from Renoise/Redux, expose it to the youtubers and say hello to a large crowd of potential users.


Edited by Fsus4, 15 December 2016 - 00:39.


#66 magickz

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:05

Roppenzo, I will not recommend to switch completely to another DAW, but I can tell you about the audio software that I purchased and that like to use. My philosophy is, rather buy one specialized tool for one special purpose, instead of one big solution that promises everything, and only keeps half of its promises  meets only half of my expectations :-)  

 

1. Renoise. You already know it, not much to explain here. I use it, simply because I like to work with a tracker. I think I will never fall in love with piano rolls, so I guess I will always stick with it. Here on my PC, I never experienced problems with it.

 

2. Reaper. I use it for recording hardware synths, mixing audio tracks, for certain sample treatments, as the most stable plugin host that I found so far - but did I mention that I don't like a piano roll all the time? :-) Super nice community. Yesterday I found a good review here, that also tells something about its interesting history and development, besides its features: https://www.extremra...eaper-5-review/

 

3. Usine Hollyhock. Sensomusic is a very small company, low update frequency, but with great support, and a good community forum. It is really crazy what you can do with it. I think if you come from Renoise and expect something linear youo might be shocked. It is a modular environment that allows you to build your own system according to your specific needs. I guess mainly used in live situations and for sound design. For all kind of sample manipulation, granular synthesis, sequencing, looping, envelopes, lfos, effects, etc. it provides 400 modules that you can combine to a totally unique machine. It is also scriptable, so you can expand its abilities. Interesting is also the user exchange - on their website they promote "350 addons". You can download and try what others built, change it, incorporate it in your own system etc. It offers a good connectivity: you could even control your light show with it, use it with touch screens, play it live with a leap motion interface and more. I think due to its modularity it has infinite possibilities. Maybe there are parallels to Bidule or Audiomulch, but I do not know exactly how they work. Sometimes I had problems loading 32 and 64 bit-plugins at the same time, that's why I use the stable Reaper as a plugin host - but actually if you build your own patches using the built-in modules you do not need so many 3rd party plugins. Here are two examples, what users built (in youtube you find plenty of demos and examples [searchterms: usine, hollyhock, sensomusic]):       

 

All three are totally different beasts, and you cannot really compare them. Only their pricing is comparable. One provides straight linearity, the other one adds a little bit of chaos - I need both. If necessary I can route the midi and audio information from one to the other one.

 

Reaper and Usine are currently not my main tools, but I regard them as nice to have and sometimes as essential helpers for certain tasks. Recently I used the Zoom R16. It has more audio inputs than my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which is more useful for me, so I tend to use Reaper less often for recording, and instead I record the eight tracks directly to the SD card and use built-in effects that are not too bad for what I try to do.


Edited by magickz, 15 December 2016 - 12:29.

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#67 antic

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 17:15

Wow, Usine is crazily beautiful!  :blink:



#68 Roppenzo

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 23:35

Roppenzo, I will not recommend to switch completely to another DAW, but I can tell you about the audio software that I purchased and that like to use. My philosophy is, rather buy one specialized tool for one special purpose, instead of one big solution that promises everything, and only keeps half of its promises  meets only half of my expectations :-)  
 

 
3. Usine Hollyhock. Sensomusic is a very small company, low update frequency, but with great support, and a good community forum.


Woohoo looks good! Thank you. :-)
House Music All Night Long. - Say What?

#69 magickz

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:28

Beautiful, powerful, and requires some time to learn it.  ... :-)

 

It becomes even more beautiful with custom built interfaces. (I wish I had the skills to build my own controller): 

 it can interface with many things

Light and sound powered by usine, performed by the developer



#70 kopias

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:36

I can recommend Mixbus/Ardour as a complementary product that does everything that Renoise lacks. I connect them via Jack (basically open source alternative to ReWire).

 

I am leaning to be Linux only one day...



#71 vitaminx

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 12:20

I am leaning to be Linux only one day...

 

Hi kopias, I am Linux only since like... 15 years or so!?

 

For me it's Renoise only right now, I only occasionally use Ardour if I want to record multiple tracks at the same time.

 

For VST / VSTi I use u-he products: http://www.u-he.com/cms/

All their VST(i)s have Linux versions, you can get the demos here: http://u-he.com/down...penguin/release

 

Tracktion also has Linux VST(i)s: https://www.tracktio...products/biotek

I don't own them but I've tried the BioTek demo and it's pretty amazing.

 

If I need something customized or some special application, I build stuff with PureData: http://puredata.info/
It's a Max/MSP compatible graphical programming environment.

 

I've tried many DAWs and tools for Linux and other OS (Seq24, Cubase, FruityLoops, Reason, etc.).

But I educated myself in the 90s using Amiga computers, so tracker style sequencing is just in my veins, can't do anything about it :D :D :D

 

So for me Renoise + all these tools offer me way more options than I will ever be able to use... :D


Edited by vitaminx, 16 December 2016 - 12:31.

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#72 mclstr

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 14:48

I have been a solid Linux user since th 90's. At the time I was using the typical music programs on Macintosh, but I used Linux for most everything else.

 

Linux has many advantages over the two big players and people are slowly starting to understand the benefits of Open Source. I won't debate the subject here.

 

Renoise is cutting edge in it's own way and I use it a lot. I use it side by side with other DAWs depending on what I'm doing at the time.

I also use Qtractor(quick and easy), Ardour(some nice features) and  Bitwig.

 

Bitwig is not Open Source, but I support them because of the fact that they do embrace Open Source.

 

I'm happy that I can do everything I need on Linux anymore.


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#73 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 19:51

Since 2 years it's always the same. Not the smallest informations about updates. Devs are working on this and that. I'm really sick of it.

Yes, I assume Renoise is not dead, but also it seems that Renoise development ist  not kicking and alive as it was three years ago. It seems that devs are focusing on other things like Redux or some fancy new product. Maybe they have just lost the interest and fun in Renoise  development. After 15 years, maybe "die Luft ist raus" ? Maybe they  need to do something new ? I could understand it. But it would be sad, because Renoise still lacks a lot of features. IMO it's far form finished.

 

On the other hand: maybe they develop a completely new tracker based DAW from scratch. Means a complete rewrite ?

 

PEOPLE, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME !!!

 

It is curious to read comments like yours. I can not stop searching for information about the LUA API in the forums, and you are everywhere for years. However, I am saddened by the current situation. With people eager to have a better Renoise, and have no official information, an impressive passivity. I very much doubt that they are developing a full DAW again. What's more, I think they are not doing anything at all with renoise/redux. I understand that some bugs are being fixed, nothing else. They may launch a version 3.1.1, but will continue to have bugs. Because it seems to only fix some things reported by users, without a deep testing team.

 

So you better not get excited about great things in a long time. Use 3.1 and keep making tools and enjoy the music. Or migrate to another DAW.

 

Do you plan to make more tools? Or are you jaded?


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 16 December 2016 - 19:58.


#74 ffx

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 19:58

Airmann, maybe you could update your faderport driver with danoise recent xlib way of writing automation, so it works with LPB higher than 4 (he uses idle event and some offset calculation, can extract it for you)? At least, still problem here on Mac. Still unsure, if we have to blame the devs here... Your auto color tool is awesome BTW!


Edited by ffx, 16 December 2016 - 19:58.


#75 Airmann

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 00:16


Do you plan to make more tools? Or are you jaded?

 

Right now, nothing in the pipeline. As long as I use Renoise I will maintain the faderport driver, though. I'd love to see that the Renoise dev team would add some improvements to LUA API. E.g. undo support for external controllers/faders, or "fader touched/untouched" support. Taktik mentioned in the past that e.g. proper undo support should be done somewhere in the future. But I'm not sure if this will ever be done.  And of course: to be held in the dark is not exactly a motivation boost  There's nothing like an official Renoise roadmap or something like that.


Edited by Airmann, 17 December 2016 - 00:27.

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