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App Android to control tablet 10" as a pad MIDI via usb?

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#1 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 16:58

Has anyone used an android app that works with Renoise, as a Midi controller input for Windows 10?

 

In summary, use a Tablet 10" as a pad MIDI through a usb cable to Windows 10 and Renoise. It's possible?

 

Something like this:

 

https://play.google....m.imaginando.lk

 

 

In fact, only the section of the matrix pad, to control specific functions with the buttons (not to play notes).

 

Has anyone experimented with this?

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 danoise

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 17:06

Does it have to be MIDI?  :P
 
Use TouchOSC on Android or iOS and you could be doing things like this
 
This is just an example. There are other presets (for matrix/mixer), and you can make your own ones too.

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#3 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 17:33

Does it have to be MIDI?  :P

 

Use TouchOSC on Android or iOS and you could be doing things like this

 

This is just an example. There are other presets (for matrix/mixer), and you can make your own ones too. 

 

Of course, I will see all this in depth when I have time. I have a tablet (a PIPO of 10" with wifi and Android), and a motherboard with an integrated wifi device, with Windows 10. I suppose it is necessary to configure the drivers of the tablet itself and also the OSC communication. Instead of wifi, could use a USB cable between the tablet and the PC. More toys to play!  :walkman:

 

Thank you and happy new year!!!


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#4 Bungle

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 09:49

Playing pads on a touchscreen is terrible, it is convenient when i am in elastic drums or something, but damn if i cant wait to connect pads or keys instead


Meh

#5 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 14:09

Playing pads on a touchscreen is terrible, it is convenient when i am in elastic drums or something, but damn if i cant wait to connect pads or keys instead

Really, my intention is to use the tablet for control specific functions, using a bridge tool, not to play instruments. I guess the tablet will not have velocity of pulsation (the volume), therefore, loses charm to play instruments, especially percussion.

 

I have not seen this in depth yet, but I understand that this works well (I explain it with the idea that I have in mind):

 

Stage:

  • a user with desktop computer (or laptop) with Windows 10 x64 (or other OS), with Renoise 3.1 x64,
  • a alphanumeric keyboard,
  • a mouse,
  • a MIDI keyboard (with few dedicated buttons for functions) and
  • a tablet 10" (or similar) with Android (or other OS), USB or WiFi connection.

What is needed:

  1. a "basic" APP program for Android with a matrix of 8x8 (64) or 9x8 (72) buttons ("pads") with the same size (or two matrix interchangeable (128 or 144 buttons)), that occupy the entire area of the tablet. Basic, just this. This APP, must be compatible with some method of communication with Renoise, OSC or/and MIDI input(and output?).
  2. a "basic" tool (API Lua Renoise), specially designed only for this APP Android (nothing more),  which acts as "a bridge", between Renoise, with the same visual aspect of the APP for Android, this tool includes a specific function for each button (pad), with MIDI input assignment, that interacts with Android APP (the basic order per button is, if you press a pad in the APP Android, the tool (API Lua) press the associated button; really it permit: button "pressed" and "released").
  • Create the tool (API lua) it's really simple, only I see complicated the communication of reception with the APP Android.
  • This is what destroys this idea: as I understand it, the second point is possible, but there is no specific Android APP in Play Store are "vitaminized" and do not conform to this concept. All this is a great idea, but us does not seem possible because we do not have the way to create an Android APP, with a concrete concept for Renoise / and its tools. Creating the APP is not complicated, because in reality, it's like creating a single button (a pad) and then multiplying it to create the matrix, everything as simple as possible. Subsequently, each line of the matrix could be colored in a different color, for easy localization, like the tool.

Steps:

  1. Install the APP Android in your tablet, and establishes communication with the computer (OSC Server?)
  2. Install the tool (API Lua) in Renoise.
  3. Execute both programs, you will have two identical programs visually, the APP Android and the tool (API Lua).
  4. Press any button (pad) of the APP Android. Communicate the command to execute the associated button in the tool (API Lua). This last button executes a specific function for example, clone a track.

On a 10 "tablet, the pads are large enough to include a small description. Using also colors, it would be really easy to use, despite being a bunch of buttons (but they all work the same).

 

This is the story or theory. The main problem is the Android APP... the Duplex tool of Danoise has a specific visual configuration, which moves away from this idea. In addition, it includes a lot of features for other programs, which end up complicating the handling, keeping in mind that the idea is to solve it as simple as possible.

 

Over time I could create a tool (API Lua) with a Matrix of 8x8(x2) buttons (each with a function) and MIDI Input (it is easy), with a lot of control functions (I would only need help in return communication with the APP Android and in some specific functions for control). Unfortunately, this idea is dead. Because we can not create a new special APP for Android (or other OS). But hey, at least I leave the idea :).

 

Happy New Year!

 

Edit: @Danoise, Would it be possible to create an Android App with only 8x8 square buttons, and that will work according to the previous description (with OSC Server or as it corresponds)? Is it complicated to build an APP for Android? The simplest case is a one-button APP. This could be very useful you would have your midi keyboard, and a tablet with 64 buttons to control various things of Renoise.


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 01 January 2017 - 16:31.

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#6 Neurogami

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 02:58

You can use Control to create simple Android OSC apps: http://charlie-roberts.com/Control/



#7 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 13:16

You can use Control to create simple Android OSC apps: http://charlie-roberts.com/Control/

Thanks Neurogami!

 

This is necessary to look at it with big eyes, and dedicate time. Unfortunately, to build it you need knowledge from various fields:

  1. Code Lua.
  2. API Lua of Renoise, including the behavior of the OSC Server.
  3. The code used with the Android APP, based in Java.
  4. Interlace both codes to get the communication between the APP (Android) and the tool (API Lua Renoise), through OSC Server.
  5. Perhaps a test platform for its construction.

With Control APP it does not seem very difficult to build a mesh with many buttons, but it is enough to fail something to not work, finally. Perhaps to analyze this, the simplest thing is to create an APP with a single button. Also a tool with a single button with a specific function, and communicate the button of APP with the button of the tool through OSC Server. Check that it works, activating OSC Server and having the correct communication between the tablet and the computer (WIFI or USB, it also involves setting the tablet well).

 

The only one that seems to be able to illustrate us here is Danoise. However, everything together seems very complicated without a real guide, made on purpose.

 

These are my thoughts. Maybe it's easier to build...

 

If someone has built their APP with Control (Android) for Renoise, leave a comment, please.


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#8 danoise

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 14:13

The main problem is the Android APP... the Duplex tool of Danoise has a specific visual configuration, which moves away from this idea. In addition, it includes a lot of features for other programs, which end up complicating the handling, keeping in mind that the idea is to solve it as simple as possible.

 

Indeed, Duplex does a lot of things, understands a larger range of messages than Renoise itself. That much is true. But you also get a lot of stuff "for free" that would otherwise complicate your project: two-way communication, optimized output stages (check if messages needs to be transmitted before sending), etc. 

 

Also, although Duplex is perhaps complicated on the inside, the whole configuration aspect is designed to be simple, using configuration files, which - although using the lua syntax - doesn't require any programming. They are simply configurations that can be loaded, interpreted by lua - could be text files, json, xml, any format really. 

  

But, no matter what, you have to consider what you're aiming for. As I understand your definition of "as simple as possible", this pretty much means coding everything from the ground up. Which is of course not a problem if you're willing to invest the time to do that. Sounds like you're even willing doing an Android app from scratch? That's a pretty complex task, especially once you get to the network, I/O parts. In many ways, the GUI is the easiest part to realize. 

 

The alternative to making everything from scratch is, well, to rely on existing things (like Control/TouchOSC/Duplex :)). Basically, it means focusing on the interface instead of the transport layer (whether that's MIDI or OSC, wired or wireless...)

I know about the Control app, used to have it installed on my phone and know that it can also be made to work with Duplex. TouchOSC, however, is what I have been focusing on myself. It comes with a pretty good editor (which you run on desktop Windows/OSX) that you can use for building your own interfaces. Next step is to make a rough recreation of your interface in Duplex (a "virtual control surface"), which instructs Duplex about the type of buttons, how they work, how they are laid out, etc. And really, then you should be good to go. But I would probably ask first: "I want to do XYZ, is that possible?". 

 

There is a lot of documentation about Duplex, but some of it is pretty hardcore - automatically generated from the source code itself. For example, here is the documentation for the control-map (XML file syntax):

https://renoise.gith...ControlMap.html

 

Could definitely have done a better job with this, but I'm happy to assist / answer any questions you might have. 


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#9 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 15:47

@Danoise, when I comment "as simple as possible" I mean something like this (not a criticism of a Duplex tool):

  1. Install "APP Renoise Control" in your Tablet Android.
  2. Install "Tool Renoise Control" in Renoise.
  3. Open OSC Server in Preferences.
  4. Use it! (the APP Renoise Control). Do not learn anything, press a button and it will work. You will only have 64 buttons. Each will perform a function of control for Renoise. Do not get complicated. You are a novice user, you do not have to learn anything. Press a button!

"APP Renoise Control" (Android) and "Tool Renoise Control" (API Lua) have a very similar GUI (64 buttons in a mesh, or the amount that is necessary). It has no configuration options. At best, setup instructions for OSC server if necessary.

 

This is just an idea I have commented, at present, seeing what is necessary. I am unable to build for many reasons:

  • I have never used "Control". But I wonder if it is possible to build a mesh of 64 buttons inside this APP, nothing else. Each button would have a small description or number, obvious. Having this, is everything already done? Is the Control ready to use OSC Server with Renoise?
  • Building a tool (API Lua) with 64 buttons and each with a function is no problem (these buttons would also work with MIDI input from the tool itself). But I suppose this tool should have part of the code in charge to control OSC Server, that is able to press each of the buttons.

That is why it is the case of a single button application. Is it complicated to build an APP (Android) from scratch with a single button and OSC Server to work with Renoise? The tool (API Lua) only have a button (a function) and I guess the OSC server configuration to receive APP data. And if building the APP from scratch is very costly, is it possible to do it easily with Control?

 

The APP (Android) and the tool (API Lua) only have buttons (a button APP corresponds to a button of tool, nothing else), which conceptually, it is possible to reduce it to a single button, for simplicity. It would not include anything else. Simple, you take 64 control buttons. Use them.

 

Yes, commenting is simple, and building it is another very different topic. That is why I have commented that it is a "dead idea". And what I'm not going to do is ask someone to build it for me. For now, I can build small tools for Renoise with some things, and others I need help with the Renoise Lua API, especially in specific functions (as I am now, I do not know how to separate a "copy" button from a "paste" button because I have to create a table and save it, to use after). So, building the tool (API Lua) would not be a problem for me, except for the I / O communication part (which is reduced to being able to control a button (pressed and released), no more elements). My conclusion is simple. If it's so complicated to build by me (the APP Android, the I/O communication with OSC Server, etc.), I'm not going to waste time with it, at least now. I have enough in learning LUA code and the API of Renoise.

 

But hey, I leave the idea here, in case someone expert dares to build for himself, for their own use. Maybe I'm the only one who has a tablet with little use, and Renoise, and all this is a toy nonsense, that would only serve for me.

 

Thanks you for all the help and guidance! But some things are very complicated for me yet.  ^_^


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#10 Neurogami

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 17:09

Thanks Neurogami!

...

 

If someone has built their APP with Control (Android) for Renoise, leave a comment, please.

 

 

In my signature is a link to some code I wrote

 

https://github.com/N.../master/control

 

Control is quirky, it can take some time to sort out details, but it lets you define custom surfaces with whatever OSC messages you want (unlike TouchOSC, as best I could tell).

 

There's a learning curve.


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#11 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 18:41

In my signature is a link to some code I wrote

 

https://github.com/N.../master/control

 

Control is quirky, it can take some time to sort out details, but it lets you define custom surfaces with whatever OSC messages you want (unlike TouchOSC, as best I could tell).

 

There's a learning curve.

 

Thank you for this! For now, I have this subject parked. But maybe I'll investigate when I have the courage and the time needed.


:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist:

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise wishlist:

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