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Switch MIDI-Mapping per VSTi-Patch/Instrument possible?


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#1 Skelpolu

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 15:01

Hope the title is comprehensible enough. Anyway, hey everyone.
 

I'm currently working on a new setup.
The setup consists of a low-end laptop ( AMD E2 APU @ 1.6Ghz, 4 GB RAM ) running a slimmed-down and optimized version of Windows 10 Home, which auto-starts into Renoise at boot.

A basic USB-Interface is connected for better sound-output and seperate Left/Right jacks to run into a mixer of choice. And, for live-performance, a USB-midi-keyboard is connected also.

In this live-scenario, I do not use Renoise for anything but the VSTi's and some effects I use (internal, and vst plugins).

 

I would like to use Renoise as a live-performance VSTi Host (I tried other VST-Hosts, but frankly, Renoise is just my preferred DAW/Host in the end) for VSTi-Synths and / or sampled VSTi's. Now, that by itself is not the problem, the problem is actually having a good MIDI-setup for each individual VSTi without having to reconfigure it per Patch, or per Instrument.

How I would normally go about configuring the MIDI-controls on my MIDI-Keyboard is to first load in the VSTi, then the Instr. Automation meta-device. With that setup to the parameters I would like to control with my MIDI-Keyboard, I would start MIDI mapping, using MIDI MAP.

 

And here is the crux: That works if I have only one instrument or patch in the entire project. But it's very likely that I'll need to switch between instruments.

I COULD map them all in the same project all at once, thus having some MIDI-controls mapped to more than one Instr. Automation, but I don't want to modify the MIDI-parameters on an instrument whilst using another.

 

TL;DR: How do I set up the MIDI-Keyboard so that I can switch between patches or even entire instruments without having to reconfigure the MIDI-inputs everytime?

I'd love to be able to just open a Renoise file for a specific track I'd play with my band and have it all laid out, just having to switch to the next instrument or patch for different passages in the current track.

 

I hope you guys can point me in the right direction here. I'd even settle for a Renoise-plugin if there is one out there for this purpose.

Cheers


Edited by Skelpolu, 11 January 2017 - 15:25.


#2 danoise

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 15:40

First thing I would check is whether the MIDI keyboard can handle channel switching. Because, then you can use the simplest possible setup, which is to map each instrument to that channel. 

 

Look in the Instrument > MIDI tab, you can select your keyboard and then, which channel it should respond to. 

Sometimes you have dedicated buttons on the keyboard, other times you have to resort to strange combinations. Check the manual to see if such a thing is possible? For some strange reason, this is becoming less of a standard feature... 

 

There are other possibilities too, like keyboard splits or (like you suggest) tools. But channels is by far the simplest, easiest and the thing I would check first.


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#3 Skelpolu

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 16:47

Oh, that actually sounds like a good idea!

I can change the midi-channel the keyboard outputs - the keyboard just isn't in front of me yet (bought one off of Craig's List). It's a Nektar IMPACT LX61, and I've seen people demonstrate the midi-channel feature before.

I do have a small Alesis V25 here, but it doesn't support MIDI-channel assigning, so I can't test it out physically.

 

However, this begs one question for me:

Doesn't this still affect the Instr. Automation of all VSTi's at once? I mean, you can't assign a specific MIDI channel when using MIDI MAP, as far as I can tell.

Would be wicked if now there was also a way to preserve Instr. Automation-parameters of all the VSTi's I'm not actively using.


Edited by Skelpolu, 11 January 2017 - 16:55.


#4 danoise

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 17:58

You mean, switching channel on the controller also will output encoders on a different channel?

That's quite cool, actually - but: 

 

Doesn't this still affect the Instr. Automation of all VSTi's at once? I mean, you can't assign a specific MIDI channel when using MIDI MAP, as far as I can tell.

 

You're right about that. Not sure why, actually. Maybe to avoid confusion on the user part - "why is my mapping not working??!"

I would +1 for the suggestion of optionally allowing MIDI channel to be part of a standard mapping. 

 

But in the meantime, this is very good case for using something like xRules - it could come to the rescue by dynamically rewriting incoming CCs. 

For example, CC#1 on channel 1 could be output as CC#1, but channel 2 would output CC#17 , and so on... 


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#5 Skelpolu

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 19:50

Maybe to avoid confusion on the user part - "why is my mapping not working??!"

 

Wait, I doubt that. They solved that issues damn well with the "Any" Channel-option from within the MIDI-tab.

I suppose it's just a rare case and nobody thought of adding the options - can't really blame them for that. But I would definitely love to see that as a feature!

 

Uhm, are you familiar with xRules, by any chance? I'm not sure how to properly write down the rule. I would blindly suggest this:

WHEN channel equal_to 2

THEN set_channel to 17

But I can almost guarantee that this refers to the MIDI channel, and not the CC output.

Would be even better if I could write it kind of like this (though I don't use proper xRules syntax of course)

WHEN channel equal_to 2

THEN set_cc to cc+20

That way, I don't have to manually re-write every CC.


Edited by Skelpolu, 11 January 2017 - 19:51.


#6 danoise

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 13:44

So when you receive CC messages, they come along with "your" selected channel?
Then you're in luck...an "xruleset" can definitely be written then.

I'll take a quick look later :)

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#7 Skelpolu

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 17:02

The keyboard just arrived today. Later I'll get into changing the MIDI channel and then take a look at the MIDI-in-readout from Renoise. But speaking from pure logic, Renoise should realize which channel is being sent.


Edited by Skelpolu, 12 January 2017 - 17:02.


#8 danoise

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:08

speaking from pure logic, Renoise should realize which channel is being sent.

 

Most definitely for the keys, but what about the encoders?

 

If not switching channel along with the keys themselves (which is entirely possible), then you often have encoders grouped into "banks".

Each bank = a unique set of CCs. This would make you have to switch banks manually - nothing Renoise can do to hold you in the hand there...

 

Look in the Instrument > MIDI tab, you can select your keyboard and then, which channel it should respond to. 

 

You might also want to check out a tool I did for accessing these controls in a more streamlined fashion:

http://forum.renoise...-midiperformer/


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