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Bitwig 2 ....160 annual upgrade ...wtf


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#51 triple zero

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 14:17

Indeed the Renoise forum is legendary.

 

Quoting this because it's so true. I love this forum :-)

 

I don't spend nearly as much time here as I want to, even already limiting it to just posting about technical stuff and crazy hacks I've come up with (to be fair I might actually be better at that than making actual finished tracks but that's cool, my road's always been an odd one). I love the fact that there's a bunch of people here who think about music & sound in a similar way as I do, know their DSP fundamentals and we're all trying to punch the same tool into doing whatever we want :)

 

And of course the demoscene roots. To be a bit more exact the tracking scene was a separate thing, but we did mingle at the parties (used to be a 4k democoder back in the day, released my last 4096b at Mekka & Symposium 2000, not very good with the music back then so I got help for the patterns, but I did hand-code my own homebrew 1100 byte softsynth--part of that last 4k--which is where I got my DSP chops), but we come from the same nest :-)

 

Oh and besides that, we just got a nice vibe here, everyone. Happy holidays and such! ^^



#52 random

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:47

 

roland cloud - change the world through music

 

https://www.rolandcloud.com/

 

bravo roland shit.gif



#53 Carbonthief

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 04:15

I'm having a bit of WTF moment here.  They cannot be serious about this... Bitwig doesn't have a takes system?  If you record a loop it just overwrites the previous loop!  I googled "how to choose a take" because I couldn't figure out how to choose one, and the reason seems to be simply that there are no takes.  You can overwrite or overdub and that's it.  What in the name of fuck!  I am just absolutely floored, how can this be real?  Even fucking Garageband has takes!

 

edit: Oh my god it's true, it's on the feature wishlist:

 

http://sombr.com/pub/bitwig/

 

This software is 4 years old... this is not a good sign.


Edited by Carbonthief, 08 January 2018 - 04:28.


#54 Akiz

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:21

New waveform 9 has nice modulators also...



#55 ffx

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:35

In Bitwig you are meant to use the clips for multi takes, AFAIK. Yes, Bitwig lacks of lot of "more than basic" functionality. Sometimes they just act like the Renoise-team, doing it always in their very own way and do not caring for common standard features...

A real pity is that there is no scripting. I mean that scripting Renoise is quite a unique feature, with all that GUI, shortcuts, pattern manipulation, hell even OSC functionality.

Also Bitwig is quite proprietary and has no open-minded file format at all. So the opposite of Renoise. They like you to be dependent on them. Bitwig is not open-minded.

But of course Bitwig also has very powerful sides, too.

Edited by guest_ffx, 08 January 2018 - 11:37.

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#56 Airmann

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 20:30


 

This software is 4 years old... this is not a good sign.

 

^_^, well Renoise is now 16 years old and still has no "take system". The last Renoise release was two years ago. So reading this in the Renoise forum is really funny.
Anyway, recording never was a strength of DAW's like Renoise and Bitwig. If you need a high end take recording system you should use Reaper. For recording and wav editing it's one of the best DAW's and it's kind of free for non-professional use.



#57 ffx

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 21:13

NAMM 2018 is at 25-jan. The bitwig team are currently offering a discount until 15-jan. So I assume they will after that announce Bitwig 3 and showcase it on NAMM. Which assumingly means I will not get Bitwig 3 or any further update for free, because my annual subscription ends at end of february :P

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#58 Carbonthief

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:26

^_^, well Renoise is now 16 years old and still has no "take system". The last Renoise release was two years ago. So reading this in the Renoise forum is really funny.
Anyway, recording never was a strength of DAW's like Renoise and Bitwig. If you need a high end take recording system you should use Reaper. For recording and wav editing it's one of the best DAW's and it's kind of free for non-professional use.

 

Sure Renoise doesn't have it, but it's also a tracker that costs $80.  When a DAW is being sold for $400, I absolutely do expect a bog standard feature like this.  And they expect it to apparently, since it's on their to-do.  Closest thing to Bitwig would be Live, no?  I'm pretty sure Live has takes.  I can't think of a non tracker DAW that doesn't.

 

I hope it comes soon, I'm really enjoying it otherwise.



#59 ffx

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 14:31

I will wait for NAMM news. If there is no real improvement in GUI speed, I think I will sell Bitwig and switch to something classic, but solid, like S1, Ableton 10 or so. Really, the thing I hate the most is a slow GUI. S1 is blazingly fast regarding that here, also Cubase and Ableton. In the end, a DAW must be coded completely in C++ (or similar low level compile) and support recent gfx standards in OSes, easily adapt to OS-changes. If not, it will turn into a disaster sooner or later. Also you should carefully test your choosen lib for heavy graphics first.

 

Also a pity regarding Renoise, it is well and fast coded and that's why had so much potential.


Edited by guest_ffx, 11 January 2018 - 18:45.

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#60 Airmann

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:58

No GUI problems with Bitwig 2 under Win7. Speed is totally ok. On the other hand I don't use 4K, just Full HD.



#61 ffx

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 22:38

And why you are commenting this then? You use fullhd, not 4K. 4K requires at least 4 times faster gui algorithms/hardware to achieve the same flow. Fullhd always works. But this is 2018. I am just telling about facts, a problem lot of people have with Bitwig.

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#62 Airmann

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 23:05

Hey, no offense meant :-) - I'm also just telling facts. Indeed I understand your prob. I also hate slow GUIs. And Bitwig is also not perfect.


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#63 ffx

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 23:39

Airmann do you know a good forum where you can talk about using Bitwig for making music ? kvr is too messed up, or not? So, you are completely satisfied now with Bitwig?

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#64 Airmann

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 17:42

Indeed, KVR Forum is a mess. The Renoise forum is so much better. Sorry, regarding Bitwig I don't know any better place.
@Bitwig satisfaction: it has so many features that I missed in Renoise (like media browser etc.) and regarding creative modulation it's a dream. What I miss in Bitwig are some workflow improvements like better copy and paste / drag & drop for clip launcher and arranger. Right now I mainly use two DAW's: Bitwig and Reaper. IMO Bitwig and Reaper complement each other very well. Reaper is an excellent DAW for recording, editing and mixing / mastering / rendering.



#65 Garf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 18:54

Speaking about takes, I just read about a new feature coming in Ableton Live 10 called Capture, it will always remember (capture) your last 10 minutes midi takes/jamming, that's quite a nice feature.



#66 ffx

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 19:17

I guess Ableton 10 will be released at NAMM, too?  I now read somewhere in the Bitwig news that we don't have to expect a Bitwig 3, the text says they are only show-casting existing features there.


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#67 ffx

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:07

bitwig 2.3 announced


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#68 ffx

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 15:07

So, what do you think about 2.3's features?  I would be happy if the gui is fast. Expanded analyzer is almost Renoise level now  :badteeth:  That phase mod synth is nice, not so many out there. Let's hope I will be in, until yearly subscription expires  :blink:


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#69 Tumulte

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 13:25

Bitwig is doing something fairly common : Yearly releases have existed since floppy disks. 

 

They've made a communication mistake here… they should've just said "you get all upgrades for current version, then it's up to you to upgrade or not".

 

It's what Adobe does with element, and you get a new version each year. Renoise does the exact same thing… but major releases are slightly less frequent.

 

That said, with live 10 coming, I'm afraid it's a survival move more than anything. Bitwig might be nice. But Live has Push and it's been the alpha dog for ages with all that comes with it (community, tutorials, third party stuffs, compatibility with every single devices in the world).

 

I can't really see a reason to go for bitwig… except for the pleasure of being more hipster than hipsters themselves.



#70 ffx

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 14:14

I started with Bitwig as a replacement for Renoise in the long run, it seems to me the most similar DAW to Renoise. Ableton is very powerful for sure and I tried it many times esp. while visiting friends (seems to be the most used DAW to me). But also development not much is happening at Ableton anymore, now v10 after hundred years... The features are nice.

Edited by realist, 21 January 2018 - 20:56.

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#71 Mivo

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:34

Bitwig is doing something fairly common : Yearly releases have existed since floppy disks. They've made a communication mistake here… they should've just said "you get all upgrades for current version, then it's up to you to upgrade or not". It's what Adobe does with element, and you get a new version each year. Renoise does the exact same thing… but major releases are slightly less frequent.

 

It isn't the same, though. With Bitwig you pay for a set period of time that is independent of whether or how frequently content is released. The "timer" keeps running whether or not there are updates at all. A year may consist of nothing but bug fixes and minor features, none of them worthy of a major upgrade. You pay for it nonetheless, or you won't even get those fixes for a version that you already did pay for.

 

With Renoise and Reaper, you don't pay for a set period of time. You pay for active development and the "timer" only advances when there are major version upgrades, which in both cases have always included a host of new, big features. When things are slow and not much development is happening, the paid-for update time isn't impacted.

 

To me, that makes all the difference. Bitwig's rigid system of 12 month cycles, which are independent of actual work being done on the software, is much more like a subscription, and I don't do software subscriptions with fixed payment cycles because it's not a trend I want to support.


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#72 Airmann

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:17

To me, that makes all the difference. Bitwig's rigid system of 12 month cycles, which are independent of actual work being done on the software, is much more like a subscription, and I don't do software subscriptions with fixed payment cycles because it's not a trend I want to support.

 

That's no subscription. It's not a limiting license modell ! You still can use the old bitwig versions as long as you want to. And you CAN pay for new features :-). That's not possible in Renoise anymore.



#73 ffx

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:37

The new stretching algorithms seem to be quite nice. There also is an old-school sampler like more now. You seem to have much more options available than in Ableton. The pro algorithm is the same as in Ableton.

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#74 ffx

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 13:38

Btw Ableton 10.0.1 final today released. Looks pretty nice. GUI is nicely slick, pianinorofl improved, max now integrated ootb, very useful new fx and nice workflow enhancements. There is a fully working trial.


Edited by ffx, 06 February 2018 - 17:00.

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#75 ffx

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:03

The expanded analyzer of eq8 in ableton just looks almost as good as renoise's analyzer (minus the slope options, why????). I wonder if taktik did program this. :)

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