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Signal follower for ducking as well as volym for noise

noise help the noobs

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#1 dirtnoise

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 11:38

I'm trying to create som rythmic noise, and I used the signal follower for ducking one track, but another signal follower to increase the volym of the same track.

 

What I ended up with almost no ducking, and mostly volym gain.  Any idea? Maybe I should learn the hydra for this. or just play with weaker sounds till I get it.

 

I was trying using a neuro bass>signal follower volym>noise and expected the bass would make the noise more fluent. Then added a ducking to create som dynamics. Maybe some granular synthesis or timestretch woudl hlp

 

Uploading the XRNS here since it's for big for the forum, lots of samples used and quite messy,and an audocity remasted version is in my signature or here  :badteethslayer:

 

Oh and it was past 04AM when I made this. Any tips? :)

 

 Working on RTFM. :P

 

Cheers!


Edited by dirtnoise, 28 February 2017 - 11:45.


#2 OopsIFly

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 16:17

are you linking the two signal followers to the same device? Then there will be conflicts of each device overriding the other. Renoise won't automatically handle such conflicts gracefully.

 

You could then try to use an extra gainer for the 2nd volume controller. or a meta mixer or formula device with a formula like "A+B" to control on the same vol slider. I'd rather use 2 seperate gainers for your usecase though, so you can tune each working component more easily without messing up the other.

 

The hydra will do the opposite, one source multiple destinations. Meta mixer is thought for combining two sources, but I don't like it because of the inflexible way it calculates the combination.



#3 dirtnoise

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 17:38

Hey I guess that helped some. I'll give it a few tries. Thanks. :)



#4 OopsIFly

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 19:54

Ah, and now I finally dig what you were trying to do. You want to modulate some noise with a bass to extend/expand the low frequencies by adding hi freq stuff in sync with it? As in the noise would become from a single stream into a gritty one modulated by the bass frequency...

 

I first thought it would be about slower volume modulations. That is what the signal follower would be capable of.

 

There are quite some ways to modulate noise with bass freqs. But the signal follower is too "slow" for this I fear, it doesn't update at sampling rate but at some much slower rate in sync with the song speed.

 

You would need audio rate modulation for this, not parameter modulation rate like the signal follower does. So distortion together, ringmods, compressors with very tight attack, bitcrushers like the lofimat in renoise can also grit up noise in sync with bass, choose what suits your needs best.


Edited by OopsIFly, 28 February 2017 - 19:54.


#5 dirtnoise

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:42

Ah, and now I finally dig what you were trying to do. You want to modulate some noise with a bass to extend/expand the low frequencies by adding hi freq stuff in sync with it? As in the noise would become from a single stream into a gritty one modulated by the bass frequency...

 

I first thought it would be about slower volume modulations. That is what the signal follower would be capable of.

 

There are quite some ways to modulate noise with bass freqs. But the signal follower is too "slow" for this I fear, it doesn't update at sampling rate but at some much slower rate in sync with the song speed.

 

You would need audio rate modulation for this, not parameteThis thread, reading it now I'm not sure what I even mean. I think I asked how to duck(which I still struggle to remember exact how, luckily CableGuys ShaperBox is excellent for automate stuff and ducking inr enose), and luckily there's a demo song for that.r modulation rate like the signal follower does. So distortion together, ringmods, compressors with very tight attack, bitcrushers like the lofimat in renoise can also grit up noise in sync with bass, choose what suits your needs best.

 

Sorry for bump but I wanna ask you this

 

 

But the bold text, I mainly use Beat>signal follower > some atmospheric pad/sequence, to get a some dynamics into it.

 

Can you fix this by rendering in realtime? I assume you mean there's a delay with the signal follower, as the volym would only set the volym for the track it's sidechained to.



#6 Land of Bits

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:33

Sorry for bump but I wanna ask you this

 

 

But the bold text, I mainly use Beat>signal follower > some atmospheric pad/sequence, to get a some dynamics into it.

 

Can you fix this by rendering in realtime? I assume you mean there's a delay with the signal follower, as the volym would only set the volym for the track it's sidechained to.

i highly recommend you use the following signal path

 

signal follower + hydra...but use it in a dedicated channel i like to call it trigger

 

and then you can specify which controls the hydra its going to move...they can be in diff tracks of course

 

to setup the SF and the hydra ..just link the signal follower to the input knob in the hydra

and since youre using it in its very own channel.you need to dedicate and instrument for this..

i always use a kick...but i get rid of the body ..by using an envelope.......

after you make the connections...you can lower the final gain device in the track so you only use the effect and the kick does not sound



#7 OopsIFly

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 13:17

Of course the signal follower has lookahead. With none, it seems to lag a bit, around 15ms or so it seems more spot on, longer lookahead will make the ducking be anticipatory, which currently seems to be a popular effect doint so with kick/pads in very exaggerated manner.

 

What I meant with the bass and slow response is, you will have difficulties to get the sidechain be very snappy, especially when using the filtering options to catch the kick in a busy track. With low bass notes/frequencies it can be a problem with the signal follower reacting to the oscillations when using very direct attack/decay settings. Also the nature of (filtered) bass frequencies can be that they slide in rather than hit strong, so you won't be able to get sharp attacks to a certain degree.

 

My current solution is to layer a dc sample (yes, just outputting +1, no oscillations) onto the instruments having the kick or snare action I want the ducking to react to. Then I shape the dc with an sample envelope to how I want the sidechain to work, and route it to a special track with the signal follower->hydra set up. The hydra will trigger a hydra in each important group, which itself will then control the gainers etc doing the sidechain work. The dc track will output no audio (dc is bad for speakers, you better enable the dc filter on master until you're sure it is properly muted!) but only work out the sidechain. Ofc you can also use a dummy kick sample or so, but I find using a dc sample gives the most precision and enables to use lowest attack/release times on the signal follower, making it operate as snappy as ever possible.


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