Jump to content


Photo

New Tool (3.1) Fake a Sidechain (Mar 2017)


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Ledger

Ledger

    Guruh Motha Fakka Knows More About Renoise Than Taktik

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3357 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 March 2017 - 19:17

If you want a solution for 3rd party payware real sidechaining see:

 

http://forum.renoise...e-3#entry355506

http://www.db-audiow...hain-compressor

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

New Alpha:

 

Sets up and manages 2 send tracks and the send devices routing to them, to mimic the effect of sidechaining a kick to a compressor.  By feeding the left channel of the compressor the source kick and the right channel the signal that you want compressed you can essentally drive the compressor with the kick.  Splitting this up into 2 tracks for left and right channels and panning the outputs, you only hear the compressed output of the non-source-kick signal.  The reason this is not real sidechaining is because the compressors detector is still reacting to the non-kick signal, but the sound can get fairly close , particulartly on non bass sounds.

 

As you are using parallel send tracks, the tool also syncs the devices in both sends and provides a gui for managing this.

 

 

 

 

Fake a sidechain.PNG

 

Attached File  ledger.scripts.FakeASidechain_V0.5.xrnx   11.49KB   30 downloads

 

keybindings

 

1) "Global:Tools:Set Up Fake Sidechain"

 

Sets up the sidechain tracks and the sends.

 

 

2) "Global:Tools:Sync Fake Sidechain Sends"

 

Opens the GUI to manage the devices:

Add your compressors to the "SC Left" send track and click the device you want to adjust via its button in the gui.  The button turns green to show the devices are linked.  If there is a plugin gui it will open. You can now adjust the parameters and both instances of the compressor are updated simultaneously.

 

fake a sc sync gui.PNG

 

 

Menus

 

fake sc menu 1.PNG

 

1) "Instrument Box:Set Up As Fake Sidechain Source and Kick Track"

 

Load a kick sample or kick plugin to an instrument slot, then use this menu entry.  A sidechain source is added with a kick on every beat.  the instrument is duplicated and a Kick track is added also along with all relevant routings

 

2) "Main Menu:Tools:Ledger`s Scripts:Sync Fake Sidechain Sends"

 

Opens the GUI to manage the devices (same as the above shortcut)

 

 

 

Routing window:

 

The routing window is to manage the send devices routing to the 2 send tracks.   This is accessed via the routing button on the Device Manager GUI.  Below you can see that there is a SC Source track routed as the single source.  This track is silent when routed like this and usually will contain a 4X4 kick.  The next track is the Kick track which has no routing so is uneffected.  All other tracks from Bass downwards are routed to the SC Sends and are effected by the compression.  Change the states as you wish. You may want to just have the Effected routing on group tracks for instance.

 

fake sc routing.PNG


Edited by Ledger, 31 March 2017 - 23:58.

  • ffx and Neurogami like this

--> Lua For Beginners <--
--> Lua for newbies <--

My Scripts On Forum

Top Tip!

 

cpu : Xeon 1231 v3, os : Win 7 64bit, audio: Audient iD4
posts as 4tune @ KvR and some other music related sites


#2 ffx

ffx

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2839 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Renoise Sidechain

Posted 31 March 2017 - 19:22

How cool is this, thanks a lot!

I have some suggestions:

- Support for a custom fxp preset / vst effect / vst compressor.
- The trigger signal needs to be much, much more loud than the target signal, to ensure the whole dynamics of the trigger can be used without being affected by the target signal. MUtility is capable of this.

Edited by ffx, 31 March 2017 - 19:49.


#3 Ledger

Ledger

    Guruh Motha Fakka Knows More About Renoise Than Taktik

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3357 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 March 2017 - 20:59

How cool is this, thanks a lot!

I have some suggestions:

- Support for a custom fxp preset / vst effect / vst compressor.
- The trigger signal needs to be much, much more loud than the target signal, to ensure the whole dynamics of the trigger can be used without being affected by the target signal. MUtility is capable of this.

 

 

Custom preset could be a good future feature.

 

For the trigger signal, you can put a gainer on the source track and just boost on that, pre the send devices?  I could though make that accessable from the GUI as a drive slider/ rotary for convenience. 

 

 

 

Another tip when using this with VSTs etc.  If your compressor has an `internal side-chain` filter (reacomp for example) you can get the compressor reacting to the target signal less and the kick more by using the lowpass setting.  Only flaw is if you have bass in the target signal.  I`ve found that treating the bass with an LFO ducking on its track first can help here.

 

 

 

edit:

 

reacomp doesn`t play nicely with the sync feature of this tool, so not the best example, but you can still use it but have to refresh the tool to update the target instance of it. I`ve found that most plugins work but there are a few quirks.  Also demos that have preset saving/ recall disabled will not sync.


Edited by Ledger, 31 March 2017 - 21:06.

--> Lua For Beginners <--
--> Lua for newbies <--

My Scripts On Forum

Top Tip!

 

cpu : Xeon 1231 v3, os : Win 7 64bit, audio: Audient iD4
posts as 4tune @ KvR and some other music related sites


#4 ffx

ffx

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2839 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Renoise Sidechain

Posted 31 March 2017 - 22:04

Made some detailed setup description once:
http://forum.renoise...ns/#entry355092

#5 Ledger

Ledger

    Guruh Motha Fakka Knows More About Renoise Than Taktik

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3357 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 March 2017 - 22:38

You actually can do "sidechain", at least for compressors:

 

- Add two send busses. Each containing the desired compressor with some ducking settings. So two times the same with same settings

- Add a left channel muter on on send, and a right channel muter on the other send (renoise cannot do this, use mutility). Post compressor.

- Add a -20dB volume lowering pre compressor on each send (or better more than -20dB), only for the channels that a not muted (renoise cannot do this, use mutility)

- Add a +20dB volume lowering post mute / compressor on each send

- Now route the "side chain signal" (e.g. kick) to the channels of the sends that are muted. So left on one, right on the other.

- Route the ducked signal to the send, to the channels that are not muted. So right on one, left on the other.

- Setup the compressors in the way they only will react on the much louder transients of the side chain 

 

 

Of course this is really annoying to setup. You can save it into a template then.

 

Is this not effectively the same as just the gainer on the source track?

 

i.e. with this tool: boost source signal (in source signal track "SC Src") by 20dB above the target signals.  You could then add a gainer at the start of track  "SC Left" to bring the whole lot (sorce and targets) down 20dB if needed, then add a gainer at the end of "SC Left" after compressor/s to bring the signal back up 20dB and mixing levels.

 

Only Would need 2 renoise gainers to get the +20dB boosts.


Edited by Ledger, 31 March 2017 - 22:39.

--> Lua For Beginners <--
--> Lua for newbies <--

My Scripts On Forum

Top Tip!

 

cpu : Xeon 1231 v3, os : Win 7 64bit, audio: Audient iD4
posts as 4tune @ KvR and some other music related sites


#6 ffx

ffx

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2839 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Renoise Sidechain

Posted 31 March 2017 - 22:45

Hm, maybe would be more suitable to lower the target signal in source track instead... But how do you later mute the trigger signal channels?

#7 Ledger

Ledger

    Guruh Motha Fakka Knows More About Renoise Than Taktik

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3357 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 March 2017 - 22:50

It`s done with the hard panning in the mixer on the "SC Left" and "SC Right", and panning in all the send devices.  They are inverted in the `Source sends` vs the `Target sends`.

 

This is where I`m not sure 100% on renoise`s panning laws and how it effects stuff, with this tool, but I can at least do some tests by ear with some VST like MUtility/ metaplugin.  Not sure in practice if it makes much difference though.


--> Lua For Beginners <--
--> Lua for newbies <--

My Scripts On Forum

Top Tip!

 

cpu : Xeon 1231 v3, os : Win 7 64bit, audio: Audient iD4
posts as 4tune @ KvR and some other music related sites


#8 Neurogami

Neurogami

    Big Masta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 563 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottsdale AZ
  • Interests:Art, music, technology

Posted 01 April 2017 - 00:46

Wow.  Thanks very much.  

 

It's inspiring.



#9 Roppenzo

Roppenzo

    Big Daddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 431 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 01 April 2017 - 01:43

Ledger , you're so damn awesome.

giphy.gif

I'm using your tools on a daily base and I could not live without 'm..

Edited by Roppenzo, 01 April 2017 - 01:43.

House Music All Night Long. - Say What?

#10 ffx

ffx

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2839 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Renoise Sidechain

Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:17

Off topic: I can see in the way that guy moves that he did smoke!

#11 Ledger

Ledger

    Guruh Motha Fakka Knows More About Renoise Than Taktik

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3357 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:34

Off topic: I can see in the way that guy moves that he did smoke!

 

Yep terrible for the lungs, that smoking business.  After a while you can`t even take a step before falling to the ground for a rest :badteeth:

 

 

@ Neurogami  and Roppenzo, thanks for the feedback, always appreciated!


  • ffx likes this

--> Lua For Beginners <--
--> Lua for newbies <--

My Scripts On Forum

Top Tip!

 

cpu : Xeon 1231 v3, os : Win 7 64bit, audio: Audient iD4
posts as 4tune @ KvR and some other music related sites