Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 3 votes

Instrument Selector should be improved


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 idem345

idem345

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 113 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 May 2017 - 16:52

I can't be the only one who finds the Instrument Selector to be unstructured and unclear, as of now? This is especially the case if you work with a lot of instruments and samples. You keep scrolling and scrolling to find that particular sample you want and maintaining a sort of structure or tidiness is very difficult if it's just one big list.

 

The solution: being able to put the instruments and samples into different customized categories would make things much more clear.

 

I made this very simple mockup to give an idea what I'm talking about.

 

GERZB0W.png

 

N70Ln3O.png

 

The tab titles are just an example. You should be able to add and remove multiple tabs and customize the names to your liking.

 

What do you think?


  • ToybOx, m.arthur, Neurogami and 2 others like this

#2 Neurogami

Neurogami

    Big Super Masta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 648 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottsdale AZ
  • Interests:Art, music, technology

Posted 14 May 2017 - 19:42

Yes. This and the instrument list for a song.

For instrument selection one can plausibly create custom directories on disk. I think these would be lost when updating Renoise though.

This might be one of those "need to write a tool" problems.

Likewise for organizing song instruments. I can have a dozen custom samples in a song, often each one slice to become a "virtual" instrument, and I wold love away to better organize them.

Right now the best I can do is name them and hand-order so that similar samples (bass, guitar, etc.) are grouped together.

I would welcome having folders, and/or coloring, to help identify different song instruments.

What I would *really* like would be for Renoise to allow custom GUI panels (and custom layouts), such that one could replace the song instrument panel (or the instrument selection panel) with a custom version.

#3 pat

pat

    Big GrandDaddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 461 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2017 - 18:10

I just make a "divider" instrument... an empty instrument called "-- DRUMS --" for example. But I can see the usefulness in this. I think a tool ought to be able to provide an interface like this... maybe using instrument comments.
  • Neurogami, Redman and Land of Bits like this

#4 Neurogami

Neurogami

    Big Super Masta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 648 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottsdale AZ
  • Interests:Art, music, technology

Posted 16 May 2017 - 19:33

I just make a "divider" instrument... an empty instrument called "-- DRUMS --" for example. But I can see the usefulness in this. I think a tool ought to be able to provide an interface like this... maybe using instrument comments.


That is just so damn clever! I love it. I will steal this idea!

#5 ToybOx

ToybOx

    Big Masta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:dublin
  • Interests:Voodoo

Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:22

I make fake instruments too in order to section the samples however its pretty shitty.Love this idea!



#6 Meef Chaloin

Meef Chaloin

    Big GrandDaddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 480 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 May 2017 - 03:22

I think I would prefer drop-downable folders rather than tabs... but would be nice to have something.


  • Akiz likes this


#7 Raul (ulneiz)

Raul (ulneiz)

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:11

This is a topic discussed many times, especially the use of folders. I think there is a big consensus here. We all want a better instrument box to be able to classify instruments by type. To start, forget the tools! Some tools only stop Renoise's internal development and some are only a patch of certain features that Renoise should include internally.

 

Just a couple of notes, because this has a lot of travel:

  1. Tabs can be very useful, but if the instrument box could be wider (in horizontal).
  2. The best option to classify instruments in a box, is that everything is in sight. For that you have to take advantage of the vertical direction. This is where the use of folders is ahead.
  3. And... the instrument box is used by everyone, to 100%, nobody gets away. So it's a very important panel!

I love the tabs! But can be a scarce resource for lots of groups. If you use many groups or types of instruments, tabs placed horizontally can be a problem (point 2).

 

The horizontal tabs could work this way:

 

[ ALL ] [ << ] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ] [ TAB5] [ >> ]

  • [ ALL ], would appear all the instruments... maybe in a disorderly way?
  • [ << ] [ >> ]. tab browsers to the right or left. They would appear automatically if 4 tabs are exceeded (>4).
  • [ TABX ]. Could be an unlimited number. They would be tabs that are added by the user. For this, the user will need:
    1. a tab add button,
    2. another tab remove button,
    3. and another tab rename button.
    • These three buttons could be placed vertically to the left of the instrument box.
  • The number of the instrument within each tab, must be preserved. But at the same time, you should allow drag and drop, and multiple drag, to be able to sort the instruments within the tab, including the tab [ ALL ].
  • Finally, allow drag and drop tabs, so you can sort them as well.
The instrument box is an intrinsic feature of the song. I think it's not possible to build anything with a tool using LUA. This is a topic directly from Taktik, the instrument classification information must be saved in the song (song.XRNS).

 

So the tabs would look like this:

  1. [ ALL ]
  2. [ ALL ] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ]
  3. [ ALL ] [ << ] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ] [ TAB5] [ >> ] ... or  [ALL] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ] [ TAB5] [ << ] [ >> ]

The first case would have no tabs. The second only up to 4 tabs. The third case, more than 4 tabs.

 

...

 

Another option would be to add a menu on each tab that includes:

  • Rename tab
  • Remove tab... very easy.

And it would only be necessary to include a single button apart to add tab. Maybe this way [ + ]:

  1. [ ALL ] [ + ]
  2. [ ALL ] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ] [ + ]
  3. [ ALL ] [ << ] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ] [ TAB5] [ >> ] [ + ] ... or  [ALL] [ TAB1] [ TAB2] [ TAB3 ] [ TAB4 ] [ TAB5] [ << ] [ >> ] [ + ]

The use of folders seems more logical here, but if the design of the eyelashes was well done, it would be very effective. However, the use of folders allows you to expand and collapse, allowing a clear vertical order. Of course, you should include add, rename, sort (drag and drop) and delete folder. When you drag a folder, you are dragging all the instruments inside. The usual topic is to maintain the relationship of numbers with the compound in the pattern editor. The instrument number.

 

...

 

These three characteristics are, in the beginning what I would most like Renoise to innovate:
  1. Improve the GUI for compatibility with high-resolution displays and better graphical, fluid performance graphic too!
  2. Improve automation editor drastically. This has been a very dramatic topic.
  3. And improve the instrument box, even with the use of colors. I'll say it a thousand times. Renoise does not take advantage of the colors!!!

With Renoise costs find a relationship between track and instrument, and perhaps the reason is that it does not capture the colors. If an instrument, for example a VSTi is routed to a track, it should have the possibility to paint it of a color, corresponding to the track. Be able to assign colors and be flexible. This could also be an advantage for using tabs and maybe using groups in the instrument editor. For example, blue percussion TAB then blue "percussion" GROUP.

 

All this would accommodate: another option would be to add a menu on each tab that includes:

  • Rename tab
  • Remove tab... very easy.
  • Color tab

and also

  • Color instrument slot (obviously not empty)

I think all this would not be very complicated to build, because it is considered "an added". If you load a song with the recent version (Renoise 3.2 with these features included, for example) into an older one ( Renoise 3.1.1), you simply would not have any tabs or colors.

 

I insist on topic of the colors, because I have used other DAWs recently, and more recent versions exploit the topic of colors quite well, to relate tracks or patterns and instruments or simply to differentiate them separately.

 

I hope that Taktik sees this subject and studies it carefully.

 

Note: renaming an empty slot is simply ridiculous!!! I do it often, but because there is no choice. Yes, it may help, but it is another sign of conformism... Ridiculous ways to do it:

  • ============ PERCUSSION ============
  • --------------------- PERCUSSION ---------------------
  • ---- PERCUSSION ----
  • ********** PERCUSSION **********
  • _______ PERCUSSION _______
  • ^^^^^^^^ PERCUSSION ^^^^^^^^
  • %%%%  PERCUSSION  %%%%
  • ////////////// PERCUSSION //////////////
  • [[[[[[[[[[[[[[ PERCUSSION ]]]]]]]]]]]]]
  • :::::::::::::: PERCUSSION :::::::::::::: 
  • .............. PERCUSSION ..............
  • 1) ------ PERCUSSION ------
  • 2) ------ SYNTH -----
  • -----------------------     <--separator
  • =========================     <--separator
  • etc, etc, etc

Which one do you use?


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 22 May 2017 - 12:28.

:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 26 September 2017):

Spoiler

#8 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6568 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 22 May 2017 - 15:45

I'm using this one: 

---- PERCUSSION ----

:)


the instrument classification information must be saved in the song (song.XRNS).

 
Instrument classification is a concept that Renoise briefly tried and then left behind.
Don't know if you're aware of it, but in 3.0 instruments briefly contained #tags. They don't, anymore. 
 
So I would argue that everything that can be derived from an instrument comes from the following sources: 
* The instrument name. This is super important, and already quite sophisticated. For example, VSTs auto update with their preset name until you assign a custom name.
* The comments. Accessible through the instrument tab/browser. Can contain even more information, without ugly solutions such as adding descriptions to a "dummy sample"
 

Whatever is done, I'd like to continue having a single list with everything. I'd like it to be searchable, though :-)
As for color, that's a great idea - but only when instruments could be associated with tracks. Otherwise, "no thanks".

Also, we already "sort-of" have color, because plugins and pure sample-based instrument are differentiated. Have to be careful not to cram too much information in there..

 

Btw: surprised no-one mentioned the tree as a way of organizing instruments.


Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#9 Raul (ulneiz)

Raul (ulneiz)

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 22 May 2017 - 16:41

...

Instrument classification is a concept that Renoise briefly tried and then left behind.

Don't know if you're aware of it, but in 3.0 instruments briefly contained #tags. They don't, anymore. 
 
So I would argue that everything that can be derived from an instrument comes from the following sources: 
* The instrument name. This is super important, and already quite sophisticated. For example, VSTs auto update with their preset name until you assign a custom name.
* The comments. Accessible through the instrument tab/browser. Can contain even more information, without ugly solutions such as adding descriptions to a "dummy sample"

...

 

Why was it abandoned? It seems like a very complicated subject. Is the reference of an instrument not its number? And based on this number apply everything else. The base is the number. If the folder has numbers 1, 5 and 23, the names of the instruments or other properties shall be those corresponding to each number. Is not it focused like that?

 

I do not know how Renoise's instrument box is made internally. But I reasonably think it would be very useful a sort system, be it tabs, folders or tree, or whatever...

 

...

Whatever is done, I'd like to continue having a single list with everything. I'd like it to be searchable, though :-)
 

I agree! Although I prefer not to search so much and and that colors can help me.
 

 

...

As for color, that's a great idea - but only when instruments could be associated with tracks. Otherwise, "no thanks".

...

 

This is the subject! Renoise could automatically assign some colors as needed, perhaps through a checkbox in the settings. But it should also allow the user to configure and associate the colors as he wishes. If you do not want to use a color association system, do not use it. Something like that. But let the user be the one who can have the power, also...

 

 

 

Btw: surprised no-one mentioned the tree as a way of organizing instruments.

 

Would not a tree be more complicated than drop down folders? Arbol would allow more levels within the same group, I understand. But the same would be acceptable for the folders. Actually I associate the folders like a tree, except that the folder represents the label of the instruments group. Actually that folder does not represent a real folder inside the operating system. It is a way of representing it inside the instruments box. I believe that only one level per group is enough (but if it supports more levels it is not a problem; use more levels if you want).

 

Maybe add some modified image capture to illustrate better. I have all 3 possible aspect solutions in mind.

 

...

 

But I'm going to be blunt here. I am afraid this topic will be largely ignored once again. It is as if the solution chosen was too complicated (maybe it is because from the beginning the code is not meant to add these things) and it is better decided not to touch anything.

 

Why does not the instrument box allow dragging and dropping a selection of various instruments to order? Renoise moves too much information that he have to save by changing the number of each instrument?

 

Why this topic to improve the classification of the instruments box is stuck? Many propose ideas but we do not really know the major problems of the internal code of Renoise.

 

Something as simple as tabbed sorting, drop down folders or tree is a big headache for coding?


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 22 May 2017 - 16:45.

:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 26 September 2017):

Spoiler

#10 DDL Blue

DDL Blue

    New Member

  • Normal Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 19 December 2017 - 22:57

I just have to open this thread again.

 

...what about the same separators as the ones that patterns have? That would be at least something.