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DJing in Renoise


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#1 CJ_Reign

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 13:55

Hello Renoise user,

 

Im about to perform live with Renoise. Still figuring out how to do that so it could be so easily done...but what Im thinking of, is how to mix two different tracks with renoise or some add ons. Was considering Cells or Live Dive, but thats (what I noticed) possible within only one track loaded and you can play it live...but I was thinking of thing how can this be done using Renoise in analogy to, lets say, Ableton Live? One of my idols, MJ Cole, uses Ableton Live mixing tracks and messing/looping cues in and out and stuff, so he can play with stuff live...geez, hope anyone will get my point.

 

Any idea, clue, please let me know people,

 

Thanks for any advices,

 

CJ



#2 danoise

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 13:59

Think outside the box, and use multiple instances of Renoise? 

Beat-mixing is actually quite easy when you can control the BPM for both songs. 

 

Hint: search for Hitori Tori videos to see just how much you can screw with Renoise, using a vanilla setup. 

 

If you want to control each instance separately with MIDI gear, you'll need to launch Renoise with different configurations. 

I've done a quick guide on how to set this up on a PC running windows:

http://forum.renoise...setup/?p=334634


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#3 Francky

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 19:52

Hello,

 

There is a post here :

 

https://www.renoise....ise-live-tricks

 

 

 

Young Seruty.


Edited by AK-47 RONIN, 25 May 2017 - 07:14.

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#4 Bungle

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:50

Use some real DJ software, Renoise is a tracker, not DJ software.

If you must use a tracker/DJ software, here it is http://pt1210.kikencorp.com

But you are breaking your own balls, use the right software for the job.


Meh

#5 Denim

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:59

Another classic Bungle reply.

CJ - if you prefer to use Renoise, go for it. Renoise is perfectly capable as long as you spend some time figuring out what specifically you want to do live, and then you choose the way to set it up.
Using another software is of course an option, but if you want to keep some original track elements (vst's, drumtracks) in the set and manipulate them live, without rendering everything down and export to another software, you can achieve more freedom and experiment more.


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#6 danoise

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 12:19

@denim: My man! you said it. 
 
Think about it like this: what kind of dumb idea is it not to play with a turntable? I mean, you have a needle and the record can spin around.
But then you see a skilled person pick it up and you realize that it was you who had a limited imagination. 
 
Not saying that Renoise can be used as a turntable, though. It's a different thing. But to a limited imagination, it's obviously not capable of anything. 
 
So the essential thing really is to Figure It Out™ . And then, who knows, it might very well be that Bungle is right and Renoise is not the right software for the job. 
But shooting it down like that, damn.
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#7 Djeroek

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 17:51

this tool might help crossfading between tracks;

https://www.renoise....ools-crossfader



#8 Bungle

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 07:09

@denim: My man! you said it. 
 
Think about it like this: what kind of dumb idea is it not to play with a turntable? I mean, you have a needle and the record can spin around.
But then you see a skilled person pick it up and you realize that it was you who had a limited imagination. 
 
Not saying that Renoise can be used as a turntable, though. It's a different thing. But to a limited imagination, it's obviously not capable of anything. 
 
So the essential thing really is to Figure It Out™ . And then, who knows, it might very well be that Bungle is right and Renoise is not the right software for the job. 
But shooting it down like that, damn.

 

I am right, it really is that simple, Renoise is a tracker designed for production, if you want to DJ you use a DJ app, i even posted a Tracker DJ app if you are that way inclined, it does what Renoise can't, If you want traditional DJing software then use that, if you want to trigger clips then use some clip triggering software.

 

But please, show my limited imagination how exactly two tracks can be mixed within Renoise like the OP asked, are you actually suggesting that the OP creates an instrument for every single song he wants to DJ with ?

My average DJing set of an hour will have upwards of forty songs not including cuts or sample drops, yeah maybe i am a bit more extreme a DJ because i am a turnbtablist, but come on, create an instrument for each song, then play it while cueing up, oh wait yeah you cant cue up in Renoise, well you could, but it would be the biggest massive ball ache in the history of ball aches, but maybe clicking on a waveform or dropping a needle is a bigger ball ache to you.

 

Problem here is not Bungle having a limited imagination, it is Bungle pointing out the facts, if you want to DJ (keeping in mind that the op asked about DJing, Mixing two tracks and messing with cue points) then use software that is designed for DJing, limited imagination or not, living in reality is actually quite handy sometimes.

There are a ton of free options for doing this now.

 

Use a hammer to hit a nail and a screw driver to drive a screw, you could do it the other way round, and when you smash your thumb and gash your wrist, go speak to danoise and he will imagine a way for Renoise to work as a bandage too !!


Edited by Bungle, 28 May 2017 - 07:11.

Meh

#9 danoise

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 11:44

Not at all. I'm very much against using the wrong tool for the job. And also not trying to push my own agenda here. 

Look, I have even discouraged a lot of people from working with Renoise. I listen for what they want to achieve, but end up recommending it, well, 1 out of 5 times or even less.

Which I why I often agree with you, because that's really what many of your posts are communicating.

 

But what I just did was to point out that you were somehow assuming he wanted to do traditional, turnable-alike DJing. 

But nowadays, DJing has become a catch-all term for multiple different ways of playing. And *my* assumption then, was is that is wasn't necessarily about that style of playing. 

And suggesting an - admittedly cool - software that runs only on Amiga hardware isn't really helping. 

 

So really, we are both working from assumptions here. 

Let the OP meditate on Figuring It Out - and then, bring the questions  ^_^


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#10 Djeroek

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 11:57

Hitori Tori uses multiple instances of Renoise at the same time, loading a new song in one, while another instance is playing and juggling sections / effects around using a hooked up midi controller;

 

Might be an avenue to explore live? 

 

In the past I've used cd players to mix 'ambient' bits whenever a songfile was ending, to mask the loading of a new track, but really when playing live, what's wrong with a jam ending into silence? Lets the crowd know you've finished a track workout, give room for applause :) ..than load up a new track. Though these kind live workflows might be genre dependable? Maybe inevitable to go the seamless dj route with more house style of musics?


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#11 Bungle

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:06

Not at all. I'm very much against using the wrong tool for the job. And also not trying to push my own agenda here. 

Look, I have even discouraged a lot of people from working with Renoise. I listen for what they want to achieve, but end up recommending it, well, 1 out of 5 times or even less.

Which I why I often agree with you, because that's really what many of your posts are communicating.

 

But what I just did was to point out that you were somehow assuming he wanted to do traditional, turnable-alike DJing. 

But nowadays, DJing has become a catch-all term for multiple different ways of playing. And *my* assumption then, was is that is wasn't necessarily about that style of playing. 

And suggesting an - admittedly cool - software that runs only on Amiga hardware isn't really helping. 

 

So really, we are both working from assumptions here. 

Let the OP meditate on Figuring It Out - and then, bring the questions  ^_^

 

Yeah there are some assumptions, but i am going to make another and say that mine where closer to what the OP was interested in, here is a direct quote "but what Im thinking of, is how to mix two different tracks with renoise or some add ons." that to me suggests that he is looking exactly for the two deck paradigm.

 

The problem is that these sorts of threads soon end up being an extension of the "OMG we need to promote Renoise so that the developers update it" BS that pops up so often here.

So again i will just state it as simple as possible like i do in all those nonsense threads.

 

Renoise is actually an amazing tracker, what you need is some software designed for DJing or playing live.

 

 

By the way, if there was a DJ tracker other than the Amiga one i posted, i would have posted that, the truth is that it is ridiculously unique and also has little interest, so will never be ported to any other platform.


Edited by Bungle, 29 May 2017 - 07:10.

Meh

#12 danoise

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 16:09

Might be an avenue to explore live? 

 

You don't need to be as hyperactive as Hitori, but yeah - multiple instances FTW  :)

Btw: I'm planning a live performance of an entirely different kind, where I want to play a song step-wise, by cranking a wheel - street organ style  B)

Still in the planning phase, but will definitely need to involve some trickery to pull off. Anyone's got a monkey for hire? 

 

By the way, if there was a DJ tracker other than the Amiga one i posted, i would have posted that, the truth is that it is ridiculously unique and also has little interest, so will never be ported to any other platform.

 

Indeed, I got nerd-giggles when I first saw that one. Seriously, it's an awesome idea and really well executed.

In the days when Amiga was ruling, this thing could have given birth to a whole tracker DJing scene. 


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#13 Garrett Wang

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 00:34

I hear traktor is good and serato



#14 Cie

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 22:49

this tool might help crossfading between tracks;

https://www.renoise....ools-crossfader

 

Thanks for mentioning it. :)

Here is an Video how to mix between different tracks.

 

In my live settings I made of all my songs 8 tracks-versions (with rendering).

Then I created a song with 16 tracks; Song A on the first 8 tracks, Song B on the second 8 tracks. Next patterns Song C on first 8 tracks, Song B on second 8 tracks, and so on.

With the Crossfader tool you could now fade between Song A and B (I used an old cheap M-Audio USB DJ Crossfader "X-Session"), select next pattern and crossfade from Song B back to Song C (and so on).

 

Having 8 tracks per song you can mute base/hihats etc. while playing live.

With the tool Live Dive (for example) you can select the patterns to play (like in Ableton live).

With 8 tracks, it is quite a big effort to setup a whole live set (took me a lot of days); it also requires a lot of training. But it works quite good. However I recommend to have 4 tracks per song, much easier to maintain.

Well if you do not want to mute any single tracks, you even just could render the tracks to one sample and mix them in two tracks. 


Edited by Cie, 30 May 2017 - 22:51.

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#15 Bungle

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:49

I hear traktor is good and serato

 

Traktor is partially dead right now, very little development going on anywhere at NI, NI are more of a samplepack/content provider and all their development has been to push that agenda going forward.

If you look at their catalogue, if it isn't designed for selling add ons, it isn't getting developed.

 

Maschine got updated to v2 a long time ago, it became basically a huge browser for NI supplied content, and is now only getting updates after 5 years because there was so much noise from its users, but even these updates are crap that nobody asked for or even wants, expansions still sell real well so it will stay on the market with crappy updates to give the impression of support.

 

Reaktor gets updated every few years because it is NIs foundation product, it is used in house for development, pretty much all of their new releases of synths and effects are done in Reaktor, its cheaper than actual native development and gives the impression that NI are still in the game of developing synths/effects.

 

Traktor will be getting less and less updates unless something mad happens, they tried pushing Sample packs for use in the Remix Decks, nobody was really interested, they tried pushing content via stems, nobody was really interested, so unless they can find another way to shift samplepacks/content, then expect few updates of Traktor.

 

 

Serato are in a strange position of spending most of their time looking to release control vinyls with some name or other that i am sure somebody has heard of, i'm an old fart and i want better features, their DJ app has been broken down in to a core unit that ships with a lot of controllers and can be upgraded to add features as and when you need, but the feature updates have been few and far between in recent years, and now they are working on a rather over priced sampler, which is all kinds of hilarious (Has anybody actually made a profit on sampler development since the release of Kontakt ? )

 

There are a whole bunch of other DJ apps out there, the guys who seem to have the most interest in development are Virtual DJ, not the flashiest or trendiest software, but actually technically the best by a long long way, more features than anything else, amazing audio engine ported from DJDecks in v8, an amazing UI engine, an amazing script engine, and best of all, good VST support...oh wait yeah, all these people asking for Maschine to integrate with Traktor since its release, yep you can load a maschine on each deck, and control it (Pitches and full deck control) as if it where any track playing.......so heres a point.....

 

VDJ works with VST, that sampler that Renoise released has host synced patterns built in to its instruments right ?

Bing !!!!!!! (No i am not explaining it, work it out, i don't own the sampler so cant do a video)

 

 

If you actually want to work as a DJ, just go learn recordbox from pioneer, it is complete shite but its in pretty much every club in Nexus.


Edited by Bungle, 19 June 2017 - 12:53.

Meh

#16 ffx

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 17:38

IMO Live is unbeatable for such purpose because of it's sophisticated realtime audio stretch algorithms. For a real DJ software I like Algoriddim Djay.


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#17 Ancient Origin

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 22:19

You can run two instances of renoise on the same computer. Run one out of the 1/8th inch jack on your computer and the other from any type of usb audio dongle.



#18 Bungle

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 16:18

IMO Live is unbeatable for such purpose because of it's sophisticated realtime audio stretch algorithms. For a real DJ software I like Algoriddim Djay.

 

 Your opinion is of course wrong.

Live is a terrible DJ app that is only used for DJing by people who have no interest at all in DJing but want the faux fame of DJing.

Just pressing play at any time and having the software actually starting play on bar, with tempo already preconfigured, sorry but this is not DJing in the slightest.

So Live is great and nobody can argue that, is it DJing, no and nobody can argue that either.

 

As for DJay as a 'Real DJ software', that is also an horrific piece of garbage that is designed for people wanting to play parties with their phone, while it has moved on to other platforms it is still very much in the "phone player" (You know, zero skill but wants to be famous) mindset

 

If you are on IOS then DJ Player Pro is the only software with real DJing feature set including DVS

 

See my post above for other 'Real DJ software'


Edited by Bungle, 22 June 2017 - 16:19.

Meh

#19 ffx

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 20:30

Yes ok, because DJing is for braindead. In Ableton I can very relaxed cut a perfect mix together and nobody will realize the difference. DJs are credited way to high anyway and killed all modern music, because of very bad taste.

 

Djay on Mac though is _really_ amazing. Unlike VirtualDJ, Traktor etc. it runs smooth, without bugs, iTunes is integrated, hell even spotify. Also it has nice dual layer waveform scroller view, it's the best.


Edited by ffx, 22 June 2017 - 20:30.

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#20 CJ_Reign

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 12:31

On the first place, I have to say 'Wow'!

 

Thank you guys (and possibly girls) for huge response in this whole djing/live acting issues with our beloved Renoise thing.

 

Im moving to Ohm64 to think of it deeply and figure out how to work it. Im thinking only how to solve a problem that occured in my setup, Ive already got an external keyboard midi controller (CME UF5), and when Im on only one instance of renoise, it works great, no problems at all. But when I start another renoise instance, and error occurs "Failed to open MME Midi device <<USB 2.0-MIDI>>". So then, how it works with Ohm64? Anyone tried, or maybe am I doing something wrong with midi settings and my CME Keyboard and in consequence that error appeares?

 

Apart from above, as I have bought Electribe 2 Sampler in the meantime, Im thinkig again to combine: again djing (or should I say more replaying tracks than djing) with totally live acting with synced E2S to renoise. Although, Ive connected my e2s to renoise quite easily, starting with renoise as master, e2s as slave and it worked great. Then, I thought hey, its easy to move forward and put them together, like playing e2s sounds inside of renosie, map all midi signals from it and start making sounds from renoise internal plug ins with sounds from e2s ... but thats not working. Even though I load external electribe 2 channels and put notes, then starting renoise it shows on my instrument section that the notes are played both in renoise and elecrtibe, but theres no sound coming out. What tha hell?

 

One thing to all my experiences above, although I already played some live sets but with my mates from group, but they already had their gear set up and ready to go, but Im quite new to messing with external synths with renoise, so please forgive my lack of knowledge and I may be doing simple mistakes that is obvious for you more experienced ones.

 

Thanks again, your advices has given me some points I should rethink and figure out again.

 

CJ



#21 danoise

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 11:41

Im thinking only how to solve a problem that occured in my setup, Ive already got an external keyboard midi controller (CME UF5), and when Im on only one instance of renoise, it works great, no problems at all. But when I start another renoise instance, and error occurs "Failed to open MME Midi device <<USB 2.0-MIDI>>

 

Whether or not you can open multiple instances of a MIDI devices usually comes down to the quality of the hardware driver.

But even when you come across such problems, there are workarounds, such as using virtual MIDI cables (for windows I can recommend loopMidi).

 

I don't think this affects the Ohm64 though. Never heard Hitori Tori or others who are running multiple Renoise instances complain that this was a thing.


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#22 CJ_Reign

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 10:32

Man learns all his life...

 

Thank Danoise for info, will test it and I hope it will end my problems.

 

But regarding Hitori Tori, he just may have a better soundcard or some audio interface and then hes not even aware of such problems.