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#76 encryptedmind

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 00:35

This discussion is all good to invigorate ongoing dev, but it reminds me of other smaller (yet comparatively larger) companies like FXPansion and how they went from doing Guru, to discontinuing it, making Geist Ver 1 and then discontinuing it and then now having Geist 2. That also will be discontinued in a few years to have Geist 3 and so on. With Guru they had some rights issue with Richard Devine who conceptualized it. Geist 2 is about as good as an MPC sampler done in software with no hardware support whatsoever, it's also very 'clicky' with the mouse. But it's feature set is eerily similar to MPC.

If Renoise gets discontinued for some reason, trust me on this one, someone somewhere will see its purpose and carry it on either with a new code base or purchase the code base from Taktik or build it from scratch using today's frameworks like JUCE or Max MSP and C++. After all these years once the rights are transferred getting it done via a crack team will certainly not be an issue becos the technology exists and it's well disseminated.

As of now just like FXPansion maybe it's a rights thing or a marketing thing to infuse and attract new blood to a product line...whatever, Renoise has a really strong user base even if raw numbers don't overtake the big guys. This kind of dedicated user base kept the scene alive so long and it will continue regardless.

Geist is selling second hand for less than a 100 quid and it's a discontinued product. It's feature set is nothing like Renoise and though it's unique on its take it cannot even host plugins or call itself a daw with even 25% of what Renoise does. Do you really need updates with a software as powerful as Renoise. The most important thing, the workflow is bang on. By that argument, why do we use Kontakt or any of such powerful plugins right? Becos Renoise allows it, you can do plug and play, but now you can also say that why don't Renoise also have KSP scripting engine or feature 50 GB sample libraries but that is not the focus of Renoise, let NI do that, you cannot do Beatmaking or tracking or audio production on Kontakt alone, so that is one purpose which Kontakt fulfills, it's a small but industry standard niche. Same thing for audio wave files and time stretch algos, these keep coming every few months or so, really, just let those vsts do their thing and just plug and play. You will thank Renoise later because of its rock solid stability due to choicoest features only and letting everything else plug in and stay that way.


Finally one more thing, I urge all electronic musicians to also become great instrumentalists and music theorists and learn to play Jazz etc it will take your mind away from this feature lust and help you both learn and make music rather than just twiddle with sound parameters all day. I used to be a manual geek for a number of years now, these days I read them really fast (my latest purchase DR 880 in 15 minutes flat, creating patterns step time and real time, guitar FX and routing, 160 page manual), my background in computing certainly helps as well as my familiarity with various audio softwares, but end of the day even with that kind of convenience I still see a very similar feature set pattern and over the years so will you. Music has nothing to do with hardware or software, if you can hear it in your mind you will find a way to realise it even if you have only 30 year old gear or age old outdated software.

Once you start making music or learning music deeply gear becomes only one part of the entire puzzle.

Edited by encryptedmind, 29 September 2017 - 00:46.

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#77 dblue

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:04

I suspect that Taktik has had a problem with Renoise's GUI, and along with "monetary problems" (...)

But that is speculation of mine.



Quite a bit of wild speculation indeed, and certainly not the first post of its kind by you.

Please allow me to make a friendly suggestion here: Try to avoid reading too much between the lines of every little thing that's said, or picking apart random comments and coming up with your own theories about this, that, or the other. It's simply not very productive or helpful.

For example: One guy makes a random comment in this thread about the "market for trackers" not being very strong, and then a few posts later you're suddenly speculating that taktik and/or the Renoise project is suffering from financial problems. I don't know if your speculation was based purely on his remarks or something else that's been brewing in your mind, but it's really quite silly either way to be perfectly honest.

Such idle chit chat is usually completely unfounded and serves no real purpose, tending only to confuse people even further or spark off bizarre rumours, until the forum eventually turns into some kind of echo chamber filled with utter nonsense. So let's simply try to avoid that, ok?

In addition, it's also a bit rude to make random presumptions about Taktik's (or any team member's) personal life, feelings, intentions, motivations, and so on. Unless we're personally sharing such thoughts with you directly in the form of an open discussion, it really shouldn't be any of your concern, so again let's simply try to avoid such unfounded tangents.

Instead, focus on the things you do know for sure, which we've already told you directly: The team (of which Taktik is the lead developer) is working on another project for a while, so Renoise's core feature development is on hold until further notice.

In short, the team simply had a desire to work on something else for a while, to explore some interesting new challenges, and to clear the dust and cobwebs from some lesser used parts of the brain. When a project has been ongoing for 15 years as Renoise has, it's only natural that an occasional change of scenery or pace may be necessary to keep things fresh and interesting.

Nevertheless, Taktik is not locked away in some distant fortress of solitude, nor are the walls crumbling down around us at Renoise HQ. Taktik, Danoise, and another colleague of ours, are all working together on the other project and meeting up at Renoise HQ throughout the week, so it's pretty much business as usual.

I am not directly involved with the new project myself, since I have my own things going on, but I do still drop into the office at least once per week to hang out, share ideas, or to simply talk some shit and have a laugh with my pals.

In closing, things here are fine, so let's all just try to relax and calm down a bit, ok?

Cheers.


Bonus PS: The 3.1.1 bugfix was silently released on Backstage earlier this month, we just didn't get around to posting an official announcement yet. If one of the pending fixes was pissing you off, it should hopefully be fixed now.
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#78 Mark2

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:25

also wenn ich ganz ehrlich bin hab ich angst dass taktik vllt depri sein könnte

==

honestly i think taktik could be depressed by the whole lot of work that stays the same

 

i hope the new project is a super brain cells refreshment :) with new customers and things like that just like doing a new song when you have heard one of your songs until your ears hurt ;)

 

actually i wanted to say that i dislike music theory and that i like midi data more. and that's my honest opinion about music theory. i know without the words how western culture sounds, how jazz sounds. i'm afraid i could not remember the words they use. they tried it, my music teacher tried to teach me. it has become one of some traumas. i have no idea what the intervals are called and why the names are so strange and leading to nowhere. maybe this is for .. for ... not for me :D

 

if i'd follow certain rules, i would do this without naming any of them. so, my main point about me is most probably that i'm no teamworker in music. as soon as i'd become one and overcome my trauma, i'll learn all interval names, chord names, whatnot. but.. honestly.. atm i have no good feeling about music theory at all. i would fight my teacher with midi! btw he gave me bad marks

 

and i love things like thinking about software as a gift from "gods", so... i am indeed in my heart still waiting for impulse tracker 3 ;)

 

hope you all do good, feel well! renoise hq. greetings from south west germany x)

 

hm



#79 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:39

Please allow me to make a friendly suggestion here: 

...

...

 

Hi dblue. In the first place, I make it clear in my comment that it is speculation of mine, not of others. So I can not confuse anyone. Many people have comments and does not clarify this. I'm just commenting on this issues. Of course, I may be wrong. But that's not the point. Several months ago Taktik mentioned in a post that he developed part of the code to make a GUI for high resolutions and that he left it parked. Your reasons would have. And on the monetary issue, it is clear that I am referring to Renoise (and Redux) itself, not to anyone's personal life, if you have understood that. And that can be a reasonable goal to be working on another project, as well could have been Redux. I do not see here commenting anything to receive some of your comments.

 

But it is well that with your comments clarify a little these issues and is interesting in some paragraphs. So we also know a little what yourselves think. Although I hope that all your comment is not directed solely to me and you have tried to answer in a more general way, result of reading more comments from people in others forums and you finished here...

 

Theme aside. I appreciate you reporting in the forums about Renoise's news, such as bugfix 3.1.1. Wow! that is a pleasant surprise. Although it would have been nicer in a calmer comment. Some more official form maybe? Does Renoise not have a service that notifies you if there is a new update? I have installed "~ Check for Updates...", but does not notify.  I'm already downloading it from the Backstage.

 

Thanks!!!


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#80 danoise

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 11:22

I have installed "~ Check for Updates...", but does not notify. 

 

Yes, indeed, let's make that happen  :yeah:

 

I guess dblue broke the news, but we will have some additional stuff (content libraries) coming up soon as well. 

So while you download and play around with the bugfix release, stay tuned for a more "official" announcement in a couple of days... 


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#81 OopsIFly

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 13:56

wtf you let the update sitting idle in backstage for a month without saying a single word, while people are revolting on the forums to have it? were you planning to play mindgames on the community as revenge to all the silly forum action?

 

but comes very welcome, works well for me so far, looking forward to a changelog.


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#82 ffx

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 14:42

This won't turn into a rantingale anymore, too much time has passed, we accept reality now. Changelog is the forum link I would say.


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#83 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 15:50

Yes, indeed, let's make that happen  :yeah:

 

I guess dblue broke the news, but we will have some additional stuff (content libraries) coming up soon as well. 

So while you download and play around with the bugfix release, stay tuned for a more "official" announcement in a couple of days... 

 

Thanks!  This is great news even if it's a bugfix! Possibly, with a "more official" announcement, some people can support with announcing it in other forums, social networks, blogs or websites related to music or for simply interest...


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#84 Roppenzo

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:20

The team (of which Taktik is the lead developer) is working on another project for a while, so Renoise's core feature development is on hold until further notice.

In short, the team simply had a desire to work on something else for a while, to explore some interesting new challenges, and to clear the dust and cobwebs from some lesser used parts of the brain. When a project has been ongoing for 15 years as Renoise has, it's only natural that an occasional change of scenery or pace may be necessary to keep things fresh and interesting.

Nevertheless, Taktik is not locked away in some distant fortress of solitude, nor are the walls crumbling down around us at Renoise HQ. Taktik, Danoise, and another colleague of ours, are all working together on the other project and meeting up at Renoise HQ throughout the week, so it's pretty much business as usual.

I am not directly involved with the new project myself, since I have my own things going on, but I do still drop into the office at least once per week to hang out, share ideas, or to simply talk some shit and have a laugh with my pals.

In closing, things here are fine, so let's all just try to relax and calm down a bit, ok?

Cheers.


Bonus PS: The 3.1.1 bugfix was silently released on Backstage earlier this month, we just didn't get around to posting an official announcement yet. If one of the pending fixes was pissing you off, it should hopefully be fixed now.


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#85 joule

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 08:59

The release being announced in a FUD/speculation thread seems counter-productive :D


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#86 toblerpone

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 09:08

Because as the post said, it hasn't been announced, silly.

 

Speaking of random people saying things, 3.2 beta probably starts around march if you look at the release history.



#87 El°HYM

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 09:40

Me wouldnt complain about a 'temporary' Absence of Taktik here, who is the main Architekt of the DAW, we All love so much.

 

After having a slight & easy Problem while logging into the Forums & a 'Please Help Me' Mail to the support, I got a pretty quick reply,

 

by the Man himself, who I never talked to before & we got into a short and neat Convo, too....so far, Renoise is Taktik's first Born Baby,

 

there might be other Projects & also other jobs to do in Between for whatever Reason we might not know about, yet on the long run,

 

this wont affect #Renoise in a bad way, or even 'stop' the Development of our favourite DAW; trust me....there's nothing to worry About.

 



#88 DJ TerraByte

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:51

there is an update! hurray!!! check the backstage area :D


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#89 Gavin Graham

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 00:22

wtf you let the update sitting idle in backstage for a month without saying a single word, while people are revolting on the forums to have it? were you planning to play mindgames on the community as revenge to all the silly forum action?

 

but comes very welcome, works well for me so far, looking forward to a changelog.

 

You're right. How long does it take to put a post in a forum to announce the update and quell the angst.... It's pretty lazy of the devs actually.


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#90 toblerpone

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:37

It wasn't a whole month, it was sometime this month, I've checked it a few times in September.


Edited by toblerpone, 04 October 2017 - 01:37.






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