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RAS - Renoise Accompaniment System


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#76 Garrett Wang

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:13

I have an idea for an added feature for this tool - an interactive Circie of 5ths dial where you can try out and project implement many of the current harmony related experiments like negative harmony and the Lydian Chromatic Concept of tonal harmony etc. Any plans to release it soon?

 

It might be a bit troublesome to translate some of the descriptions of chords and scales in the cycle of fifths into useful note data for the pattern editor in renoise because renoise does not use flats or even some of the sharps in the cycle of fifths (such as E#, B#). It could be more efficient to use a cycle of fifths app outside of renoise.

 

In classical music theory there is a rule that F must be followed by G, so if a scale contained an F and an F#, they must use Gb instead of F#, because there is already an F. The system used in trackers does away with this rule so it is fine to use an F followed by an F# or a C followed by a C#. There is also no longer any need for E# or double sharp or whatever.

 

 

he sight reads, has perfect pitch, has an immaculate ear

 

This my app recommendation for learning sight-reading in the treble and bass clefs. Notetrainer.

http://www.bigboxlabs.com/index.html

This is my app recommendation for learning perfect pitch (The exercise is called ear training inside the main app, which is an awesome guitar theory app), SmartChord:

https://play.google....ord.droid&hl=en

 

 

I am not talking about deciphering or composing with chords like CM7, dm7, GAug but rather C13b9#11, dmM9b9, BM7#11/G and the infinite substitutions that go in between. Its not about what I or anyone can or cannot do - its got more to do with making the translation process simpler since the music itself can get very very complicated very fast.

 

You can find the notes which make up the structure of these kind of chord descriptions in a chord dictionary such as piano companion...you might not get C13b9#11 but you can definitely get C13b9 and go from there.

https://play.google....companion&hl=en

 

 

Regarding your point on a vertical waveform view - I personally would hate that since it would make my focus shift from my ears and the note entry precision to a regular visual feedback mode.

 

I know what you mean but I'm a fan of the audiotracks idea because I feel like they would be good for long samples, like vocals or guitar solos. It is already possible to have a long recording or sample play on through multiple patterns though.

 

 

I also play guitar and I would LOVE to have a tuner in Renoise. Again I can use my ears to tune accordingly and I have other phone apps, but seriously why would Renoise NOT have a guitar tuner if Ableton does. Think about it!

 

I recommend G-tune. It is free and works very well. It is also good for tuning short looped samples or single cycle waveforms.

http://www.gvst.co.uk/gtune.htm


Edited by Garrett Wang, 20 July 2017 - 02:16.


#77 encryptedmind

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:32

@garrett : Haha bro, I love your ideas and app recommendations :0 But I really need to ask this very politely, is English your first language? I mean with all due respect as a fellow renoiser!! Honestly I am not looking for a software list or set of disjointed tools or audio theory lessons - as I already explained in depth (and you seem to extract sentences a little out of context from what they mean), the purpose of the features that I would want, enable us as musicians to translate our ideas in our heads in a more streamlined manner. I was talking about Jacob Collier and June Lee and the limits of current music theory, nothing to do with what I want in yet another app or something, and certainly nothing to do with sight reading practice apps (Overture and Notion work just fine). I was hinting at the problems that are currently there and the boundaries that are being broken by the current crop of musicians and what we could do to involve ourselves in solving some of them, especially when it comes to harmony and using it in Renoise. I gave enough points as to what a chord analyzer can be useful for and I would certainly like to have a guitar tuner inside Renoise :)

 

I like your style though, that you take your time to deconstruct just about anything given in the threads :)


Edited by encryptedmind, 20 July 2017 - 05:10.

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#78 Garrett Wang

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:46

Are you serious?


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#79 encryptedmind

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 03:04

Are you serious?

 

Yep. Cos I was making very straight points and I actually don't understand yours at all, as to the direction you are getting at - more apps for everything means what? I mean I have a ton of them already, does not help me cos I never use them :0  As I said again, I don't mean any disrespect, I just dont think you are either getting my point or that you are expressing something on a different page, I appreciate your effort though and thanks for the links. 

 

What I am looking for is a streamlined solution that makes note management and harmonic analysis more intuitive in Renoise-bulk editing of notes in Renoise is fun, but as you do more overdubs, or work on multiple voices, the complexity increase outweighs the speed benefits of using the tracker editor interface. For instance in a mixed or mix-paste format of multiple lines interwoven, the step I would use is to firstly isolate individual instruments to their own note lanes and not intertwined. To do this I first have to select specific instrument numbers and copy or cut them only. Its kindof tricky how to get this done unless the advanced editor has some immediate features to do so. A lasso select selects everything and ALT+UP or DOWN certainly helps in spot selecting but it fails to address instrument or note range based selections. If you can find a way to do this natively in Renoise then I suppose note management already gets done. Next up is labelling them as chords IF the user wants so in a separate ChordLane that can both work as Chord Sheets as you mentioned earlier, and also for Chord based note manipulation. It would be nice if you could manipulate the labels now given to further modulate chords or transpose of change the chord types as well as automate the changes if required.  However all this functionality can be evidently exposed as an internal Renoise API function, so that all and any plugin can utilize the chord analysis feature. After this any one can query the chord type of a particular note range in a track and proceed to transform it or utilize the information to arrange or modulate chords in realtime or as another editor feature that works on a one level higher abstraction. I really hope this conveys the point.

 

Well, I did visit the links you wrote and I find a couple of them very useful nonetheless.

 

GVST and BigBox look like winners in the usability part and I would certainly incorporate them in my sessions. Another point is that Renoise is not a mobile app, so while working on my PC Rig or Macbook the last thing I would like is to use an external phone app for something like this. If its just ALT+TAB and then enter MIDIculous or say Sheet View in Notion then its fine for that part. But changing between platforms is certainly not my style of doing things. 

 

I also wish Renoise supported total and complete control of the software via Keyboard Shortcuts and not just the predefined ones in the preferences file. I could add so many more shortcuts for simple things like loading a plugin, load next plugin and load previous plugin and cycle between presets also for the VSTis. The MIDI Map mode gets some amount of UI automation done via controllers but that still requires some preparation and the controller has to be there make use of it, whereas the keyboard by default is already there and there are so many more shortcuts you can use. For instance the 'Vel' feature for fixed velocity could be had a shortcut instead of midi map, and I could immediately use the "full level" feature as in the MPCs without resorting to the external controller. 

 

 

By the way, I wanted to know is there a way to cycle between tracks using a midi controller? I mean what Ableton does, can be easily done in Renoise for the specific use of recording live loops. I can start with a drum or chord loop in one track and use the 'lock' button in the Instruments View to sync the selected track with the playing instrument and just be on permanent recording mode to cycle more data on each track as well as change the Instrument automatically. I have not tried this even though it works with the computer keyboard TAB and SHIFT+TAB keys to cycle between tracks and I record in cycles or loops as and when required. I am not a big fan of this style of recording since I like to plan and then play and keep those intimate grooves recorded for the next playback cycle the first time itself. I never use quantize (bass/drums/keys/synth) and only the global swing parameter. 

 

Preview with keyboard mapping is also another feature I would love.

 

 

Mute and solos automation could be a bit more intuitive instead of typing values or modulating on the pattern editor or the automation curves editor which can be a little hit miss sometimes.


Edited by encryptedmind, 21 July 2017 - 10:42.

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#80 Garrett Wang

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 18:07

the purpose of the features that I would want, enable us as musicians to translate our ideas in our heads in a more streamlined manner. I was talking about...the limits of current music theory...I was hinting at the problems that are currently there and the boundaries that are being broken by the current crop of musicians and what we could do to involve ourselves in solving some of them, especially when it comes to harmony and using it in Renoise. I gave enough points as to what a chord analyzer can be useful for...

 

When will your tool be finished? When will you upload it to the tools section so that I can try it?

I want to translate in my head in a more streamlined manner...


Edited by Garrett Wang, 20 July 2017 - 18:07.

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#81 encryptedmind

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 18:26

When will your tool be finished? When will you upload it to the tools section so that I can try it?

I want to translate in my head in a more streamlined manner...

 

@joule: Are you going to release your tool sometime soon?

 

@garret : I never said that I already started writing anything. We are all still in feature discussion mode. That is the reason I was asking you whether we understand each other or not, cos you seem to take things out of context.

 

Anyways, guys, I was checking out the Chord Pads feature in Cubase cos I never use it anyways, but it reminds me of what we have always had in Casio keyboards etc like @renoised already said. So this feature if we have to build as a Lua plugin tool, @joules tool already works like that. The only thing we need to make it more live playable is to add another keyboard graphic and map the chord type on the left hand side keys or CC controllers and use it like the Cubase feature. Honestly I think its a total waste of my time if I am using this feature in any software to actually make music. But many require this since some may not be keyboard players etc. However, if we go the auto-accompaniment route, that is with bass lines and drums all transposing automatically as the user plays, that will be some nice feature. 

 

Phrases editor already gives me that feature to program chords and just play another key like a Chord Map feature. For me I would not want anything other than that. However, in the pattern editor , a bulk chord labeller or grouping mechanism would help in terms of data management, not neccessarily the composition or production process.

 

 

A Chord Pad will enable new users to immediately program chords without getting confused and this will add another layer of encapsulation making Renoise more simple (than it already is!).


Edited by encryptedmind, 20 July 2017 - 18:27.

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#82 Renoised

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 19:38

Wow, Joule, that Chord Tracker of yours looks very impressive :dribble:

 

What's going on with the development though?  I can only echo what others here have said, please release it, or at least tell us what you will or won't do with it or whatever.  That was the bigest tease ever, looks really good, I especially like the way you can just preview chords from a whole page of them, and above and beyond that, it looks as if it might have some neat "chord progression" type functions as well.

 

Garrett, I hear what you're saying, but I lean more towards Encryptedmind's take on it.  The phrase feature of Renoise is something I want to like, but can't, because it lacks (as far as I'm aware) two very important things.  The first things is, when i press a key to trigger a phrase, I'm expecting it to keep running in a loop when I take my finger of the key, but it doesn't.  I also expect it to have the intelligence, when switching between different phrases, to only change on the next bar or whatever, but again, it doesn't.  That aspect of Renoise feels half-finished to me, and to be honest, it's completely useless to me (the way I want to use it) without those two features.  If I'm wrong about those limitations (and I'd love to be), then please point it out.

 

But even so, even if it worked like I hoped, it's still no match for working with chords, compared to, for example, what Joule just demonstrated.  That's the aspect I, and I'm sure Encrypted mind, is trying to point out here.  Sure, users could learn Renoise inside out before they even get started,  Sure, they could look-up a chord.  Sure they could then manually enter that chord into a separate tool to hear it, but why do that?

 

There's no point in doing it that way, because all of those steps can be eliminated completely by just pressing an on-screen chord.  Look what Joule did, he got chords entered for him, he got to hear what a chord sounds like just by touching it.  He needs to know absolutely nothing whatsoever about chords in order to do that, that's the power of these systems and why they're important.  They have the ability to allow even an inexperience person to explore chords fast, as in the click-of-a-mouse or press-of-a-key fast, and get it all entered into whetever track they're working on.  The ability alone, to even just click-away happily ona bunch of chords that are laid out in front of you is incredibly rewarding.  At the very most, it just means you keep clicking on different chords until you find a progression that sounds good.  And all the time a person does this, they're learning.  They see the appropriate keys getting highlighted, for example.  After doing it a few times, they start to actually play this stuff on a real keyboard cause the chord system has learnt them where the fingers go, and they know which chords sounds good together.

 

So it's not just a productive proces, it's a learning one.  And although reading the manual is always a good thing, and everyone should, it can never be as productive, in a "musical" sense, as just having a system in place where you can load it up and happily tap away at chords for hours on end.

 

Danoise, I agree, mockups are nice, but to be honest, after seeing what Joule just produced, there's no way I can demonstrate the accompaniemt side of things in such a brilliant way.  I have no clue how to actually program the interface.  I was basically gonna copy/paste/edit bits of interface to mock-up a custom one in order to show the idea.  It's a shame Joule's tool isn't available for us to play with, cause it would allow us to get a feel for the perfect way to integrate it with Renoise and an accompaniment system in the best possible way.  What Joule has there, technically, is the chord half of the complete picture.  Something like that needs integrating into an accompaniment system, which as a whole would become "RAS".

 

In a nutshell:

 

- Where we currently have tabs for the Mixer, MIDI, Sampler view etc, we need a new tab called RAS.

- When the RAS tab is active, the entire workspace is dedicated to working with chords and accompaniment, an experimenters paradise!

 

Joule's tool, for example, is a floating window, and that's a no for Renoise in my opinion.  The way Renoise is designed, without floating windows getting in the way, is really very nice.  But if RAS had an entire screen to itself like the other tabs do, the stuff such as Joule demonstrated could all be done on that page along with the accompaniment side of things, and all without a floating window in sight.  Naturally, you'd want Renoise to boot-up with the RAS tab active so that users can start banging-out chords and accompaniments as soon as they hit an on-screen chord pad.


Edited by Renoised, 20 July 2017 - 19:42.


#83 danoise

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 20:08

The first things is, when i press a key to trigger a phrase, I'm expecting it to keep running in a loop when I take my finger of the key, but it doesn't.  I also expect it to have the intelligence, when switching between different phrases, to only change on the next bar or whatever, but again, it doesn't.  That aspect of Renoise feels half-finished to me, and to be honest, it's completely useless to me (the way I want to use it) without those two features.  If I'm wrong about those limitations (and I'd love to be), then please point it out.

 
In Renoise 3.0 there used to be a "hold" mode, which would sustain a note indefinitely. Which made it kind of easy to trigger multiple phrases, a bit like a "Ableton Live" style jamming workflow.  But it got scrapped for two reasons, first one being that instruments got a proper support for sustain with 3.1 and secondly, the feature confused a lot of users. I don't subscribe to dumbing down things, but with hold mode AND sustain, things would get kind of complicated. 
So with the current Renoise, if you want to trigger a phrase and let it play indefinitely, you could obtain a sustain pedal with a toggle mode or use a virtual pedal - just something that transmit MIDI to CC#64. 
Secondly, triggering something on a specific line, beat, bar is possible through the input quantize - this is a live trigger option, available in the instrument properties panel.

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#84 Fsus4

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 21:21

Personally I don't really think this kind of tool is necessary.

Use a chord and scales dictionary.

I recommend piano companion by songtive for android.

 

After scrolling through your posts in this thread, I get the impression that you've somewhat missed the point of a RAS.

 

"Use a chord and scales dictionary?" Ehh...

 

The value of a RAS is that you would let the computer transform a 500+ tracks pattern playing in C-major into a 500+ tracks pattern playing in ANY chord, rather than doing that time-consuming editing work manually.

 

So, it's essentially a time-saving tool to transform entire patterns (serving as the original styles-templates), not some chord library to place out different chords on single tracks.

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Now if we're only speaking of browsing chords and placing them out, then a software I highly recommend is Cognitone's Harmony Navigator:  http://www.cognitone...intro/page.stml

 

Use a virtual midi cable, enable record mode in Renoise, push the pads in HN and the chords are placed out in the pattern editor.

 

Another product I can recommend checking out and running together with Renoise is RapidComposer:  http://www.musicdeve...idcomposer.html


Edited by Fsus4, 20 July 2017 - 21:31.

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#85 Fsus4

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 21:43

@joule: Are you going to release your tool sometime soon?

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for it. :ph34r:

 

I'd guess joule would prefer to keep it private and polish on such a tool for a while, at least until version 1.0 (from that video it seemed to be at version 0.6).

 

But for sure, if joule does release that tool at some point further down the road, it will for sure inspire quite many other tool-makers and Lua-learners, especially those of us who are particularily interested in building a richer experience with harmony-related stuff when working inside Renoise.


Edited by Fsus4, 20 July 2017 - 21:46.

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#86 encryptedmind

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 00:47

After scrolling through your posts in this thread, I get the impression that you've somewhat missed the point of a RAS.

 

"Use a chord and scales dictionary?" Ehh...

 

The value of a RAS is that you would let the computer transform a 500+ tracks pattern playing in C-major into a 500+ tracks pattern playing in ANY chord, rather than doing that time-consuming editing work manually.

 

So, it's essentially a time-saving tool to transform entire patterns (serving as the original styles-templates), not some chord library to place out different chords on single tracks.

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Now if we're only speaking of browsing chords and placing them out, then a software I highly recommend is Cognitone's Harmony Navigator:  http://www.cognitone...intro/page.stml

 

Use a virtual midi cable, enable record mode in Renoise, push the pads in HN and the chords are placed out in the pattern editor.

 

Another product I can recommend checking out and running together with Renoise is RapidComposer:  http://www.musicdeve...idcomposer.html

 

 

@fsus4 : Ya finally, very well put. Thats the beauty of these forums, I never even knew about Cognitone (or skipped it), thanks for conveying it to everyone. I think this is the tool feature set that I was initally hinting at : a playground, as well as an advanced music theory tool with circle of 5ths based interactiveness, a composers palette, contemporary music relevance (i.e. not some classical music or Schoenberg style generator), MIDI out... beautiful. Seems Germany is blessed with beautiful women, beautiful suburbs and kickass software developers.

 

RapidComposer is a nice one too done by a Hungarian developer, I used it in its earlier iterations but I have not found it too useful, though for Epic music composition etc and voice leading this might help. Maybe someone can identify a workflow for RapidComposer with Renoise. But Harmony Navigator just as the name suggests is a very nice tool in ones kit, I am buying it next week (Synfire is expensive shit!!!).

 

Many people think such tools will be abused in a 1-click song generator kind of way, but really its just a translation tool for the ultimate computer that is your brain. For simple electronic music, maybe a little overkill, but for more complex styles or even basic songwriting like with lyrics and piano etc, it will be useful to validate your ideas, generate alternate ideas and cohesively work on a singular track as the product in the end. This is where the tool succeeds, not using 20 different apps for each and every thing but a streamlined solution. The about page gives a very nice overview of what they can do.

 

Building a similar plugin version for Renoise might not be the best solution since this particular tool uses AI code and data mining and pattern recognition and years of research etc. However a LE version can most definitely be done with the dev chops we have here. 


Edited by encryptedmind, 21 July 2017 - 00:54.

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#87 Garrett Wang

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 02:18

I think you guys should just wait for the chords tool that Joules is working on.

 

Some of the things being written in this discussion give me the sense that some of the RAS tool enthusiasts, though quick to point out to others "you haven't grasped the concept" or "you have missed the point of RAS", haven't spent the necessary time and effort to understand the full feature set of Renoise.

 

For example, when someone says the value of this tool is that it will transpose my "500+ tracks pattern" written in C Major into any chord, it shows that the person who commented, in all probability, hasn't really written much music in renoise to begin with.

 

500 tracks in one pattern would be a huge amount of polyphony and layering. Nevertheless, if you did write a massive C Major chord like that you could transpose it into any major chord very easily anyway.

 

In the case that you meant any chord at all (not just major chords) you could easily assign as many different chords or progressions as there are keys in the 10 octave range using the phrase editor and "bang them out for hours" that way. Or you could sample your chords  or chord progressions and assign them to keys so that they could be played with a single keypress. I will agree that "toggle on/off" would be a good feature in addition to "one shot" in terms of triggering samples.

 

The RAS tool people dont feel happy with these features because they "will not read the maual" and they need "a playground" and "instant gratification" and they don't want to enter the notes "manually".

 

They are not happy with the precise and clear explanations in the youtube tutorials or indeed the succinct and well thought out descriptions of features layed out in the online manual. No, the manual is too "dry". Instead, everyone needs to write a "renaissance book" together.

 

You seem confident that the correct appraoch is to "eliminate all the steps" to get chords progressions into renoise more easily.

 

May I suggest that it is possible you will find it is actually easier to read the manual and go through the steps of entering chords into the pattern or phrase editor by pressing the chord on your midi keyboard, than it is to create a tool which would require a massive database containing the whole of music theory and every possible chord description? Chord dictionary ehhh? Isn't what you are describing essentially a chord dictionary in which you can assign your chosen chords to pads anyway? Reading on I find that you are not content with just that but that you also require pre-written loops in every style.

 

One guy wants the band in a box chord labelling feature, another wants the cubase chord pads, another wants an interactive cycle of fifths and all this together should be front and center when renoise is opened.

 

When you get to 6 O'clock in the cycle of fifths (counting clockwise) you will encounter an E#. What then? Trackers dont use E#. What about counting counter-clockwise? All the scales will have flats in them, trackers don't use flats...you will have to convert the cycle of fifths chord and scale descriptions into tracker style descriptions...but you want a tool to streamline the translation process in your head.

 

Its fun to throw ideas around and think up possible new feautures which could entice new users but some parts of the discussion here read a bit like this...

 

I know all the chords anyway

My chords are bigger

The tutorials are not good enough, write a book

The manual is too dry

You cant grasp my sophisticated concepts

My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord..

 

But when I look back at previous comments I can find out what problems this discussion stems from:

 

"I cant render to .wav"

"I can't understand how to use the song comments box"

"I want to use renoise to create sample-packs for re-sale"...and so on.

 

I will concede that an accurate tuner inside renoise itself would be a desirable feature for tuning short looped samples and single cycle waveforms though. In the meantime, using G-tune is a good option for such things.

 

Renoise is just not that kind of instant gratification, automatic accompaniment kind of software...You will have to expend some time and effort. The tool that Joules is making seems to be exactly what you want, where is the problem with it?


Edited by Garrett Wang, 21 July 2017 - 05:53.


#88 Fsus4

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 07:35

I think you guys should just wait for the chords tool that Joules is working on.

 

Some of the things being written in this discussion give me the sense that some of the RAS tool enthusiasts, though quick to point out to others "you haven't grasped the concept" or "you have missed the point of RAS", haven't spent the necessary time and effort to understand the full feature set of Renoise.

 

For example, when someone says the value of this tool is that it will transpose my "500+ tracks pattern" written in C Major into any chord, it shows that the person who commented, in all probability, hasn't really written much music in renoise to begin with.

 

500 tracks in one pattern would be a huge amount of polyphony and layering. Nevertheless, if you did write a massive C Major chord like that you could transpose it into any major chord very easily anyway.

 

In the case that you meant any chord at all (not just major chords) you could easily assign as many different chords or progressions as there are keys in the 10 octave range using the phrase editor and "bang them out for hours" that way. Or you could sample your chords  or chord progressions and assign them to keys so that they could be played with a single keypress. I will agree that "toggle on/off" would be a good feature in addition to "one shot" in terms of triggering samples.

 

The RAS tool people dont feel happy with these features because they "will not read the maual" and they need "a playground" and "instant gratification" and they don't want to enter the notes "manually".

 

They are not happy with the precise and clear explanations in the youtube tutorials or indeed the succinct and well thought out descriptions of features layed out in the online manual. No, the manual is too "dry". Instead, everyone needs to write a "renaissance book" together.

 

You seem confident that the correct appraoch is to "eliminate all the steps" to get chords progressions into renoise more easily.

 

May I suggest that it is possible you will find it is actually easier to read the manual and go through the steps of entering chords into the pattern or phrase editor by pressing the chord on your midi keyboard, than it is to create a tool which would require a massive database containing the whole of music theory and every possible chord description? Chord dictionary ehhh? Isn't what you are describing essentially a chord dictionary in which you can assign your chosen chords to pads anyway? Reading on I find that you are not content with just that but that you also require pre-written loops in every style.

 

One guy wants the band in a box chord labelling feature, another wants the cubase chord pads, another wants an interactive cycle of fifths and all this together should be front and center when renoise is opened.

 

When you get to 6 O'clock in the cycle of fifths (counting clockwise) you will encounter an E#. What then? Trackers dont use E#. What about counting counter-clockwise? All the scales will have flats in them, trackers don't use flats...you will have to convert the cycle of fifths chord and scale descriptions into tracker style descriptions...but you want a tool to streamline the translation process in your head.

 

Its fun to throw ideas around and think up possible new feautures which could entice new users but some parts of the discussion here read a bit like this...

 

I know all the chords anyway

My chords are bigger

The tutorials are not good enough, write a book

The manual is too dry

You cant grasp my sophisticated concepts

My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord..

 

But when I look back at previous comments I can find out what problems this discussion stems from:

 

"I cant render to .wav"

"I can't understand how to use the song comments box"

"I want to use renoise to create sample-packs for re-sale"...and so on.

 

I will concede that an accurate tuner inside renoise itself would be a desirable feature for tuning short looped samples and single cycle waveforms though. In the meantime, using G-tune is a good option for such things.

 

Renoise is just not that kind of instant gratification, automatic accompaniment kind of software...You will have to expend some time and effort. The tool that Joules is making seems to be exactly what you want, where is the problem with it?

 

Hahahaha!   :D

 

Priceless! I just have to quote this entire post so that it won't be post-edited away.

 

Imagine somebody entering a discussion about, let's say, algebra:

 

"Hey guys, I think you should do as I say. Instead of writing this 3x+y nonsense, just look at what you have and manually count it, such as counting 7+7+7+10 on your fingers instead. Your perspective on things really suggest to me that you need to learn proper addition, I'd suggest that you go back and read the K-3 manual. Also use a good number dictionary. You can also take a more modern approach and go for an Android app. Now, I've been looking and looking, but I can't really find this x or y you're all talking about. Where's x-ness in x? Where's y-ness in y? You guys really need to get down to earth here."

 

Guess we should simply get back to reading the manual and wait for joule's tool to be released. Maybe also visit KVR and post a new thread on a DAW recommendation. Maybe Renoising is just too damn difficult?  :unsure:


Edited by Fsus4, 21 July 2017 - 08:01.

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#89 encryptedmind

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:02

I think you guys should just wait for the chords tool that Joules is working on.

 

Some of the things being written in this discussion give me the sense that some of the RAS tool enthusiasts, though quick to point out to others "you haven't grasped the concept" or "you have missed the point of RAS", haven't spent the necessary time and effort to understand the full feature set of Renoise.

 

For example, when someone says the value of this tool is that it will transpose my "500+ tracks pattern" written in C Major into any chord, it shows that the person who commented, in all probability, hasn't really written much music in renoise to begin with.

 

500 tracks in one pattern would be a huge amount of polyphony and layering. Nevertheless, if you did write a massive C Major chord like that you could transpose it into any major chord very easily anyway.

 

In the case that you meant any chord at all (not just major chords) you could easily assign as many different chords or progressions as there are keys in the 10 octave range using the phrase editor and "bang them out for hours" that way. Or you could sample your chords  or chord progressions and assign them to keys so that they could be played with a single keypress. I will agree that "toggle on/off" would be a good feature in addition to "one shot" in terms of triggering samples.

 

The RAS tool people dont feel happy with these features because they "will not read the maual" and they need "a playground" and "instant gratification" and they don't want to enter the notes "manually".

 

They are not happy with the precise and clear explanations in the youtube tutorials or indeed the succinct and well thought out descriptions of features layed out in the online manual. No, the manual is too "dry". Instead, everyone needs to write a "renaissance book" together.

 

You seem confident that the correct appraoch is to "eliminate all the steps" to get chords progressions into renoise more easily.

 

When you get to 6 O'clock in the cycle of fifths (counting clockwise) you will encounter an E#. What then? Trackers dont use E#. What about counting counter-clockwise? All the scales will have flats in them, trackers don't use flats...you will have to convert the cycle of fifths chord and scale descriptions into tracker style descriptions...but you want a tool to streamline the translation process in your head.

 

Its fun to throw ideas around and think up possible new feautures which could entice new users but some parts of the discussion here read a bit like this...

 

I know all the chords anyway

My chords are bigger

The tutorials are not good enough, write a book

The manual is too dry

You cant grasp my sophisticated concepts

My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord..

 

But when I look back at previous comments I can find out what problems this discussion stems from:

 

"I cant render to .wav"

"I can't understand how to use the song comments box"

"I want to use renoise to create sample-packs for re-sale"...and so on.

 

I will concede that an accurate tuner inside renoise itself would be a desirable feature for tuning short looped samples and single cycle waveforms though. In the meantime, using G-tune is a good option for such things.

 

 

LOL! Can't believe this @garrett. Like you just confirmed my earlier question that 'is English your first language or not?' :0

 

 

"When you get to 6 O'clock in the cycle of fifths (counting clockwise) you will encounter an E#. What then? Trackers dont use E#. What about counting counter-clockwise? All the scales will have flats in them, trackers don't use flats...you will have to convert the cycle of fifths chord and scale descriptions into tracker style descriptions...but you want a tool to streamline the translation process in your head."

 

Enharmonic notation can be easily handled as a simple use case for all normalized notes, like we can make an exception for conflicting enharmonics and normalize everything to an F, depending on the key signature and scale of choice. We can totally eliminate the need for such confusions in code. Seems you have not done coding of any sort either scripts or native code or interpreted language to grasp what an exception list means. A simple switch-case table, hash table or a simple If-else is all you need to get this done, for starters.

 

 

 

"They are not happy with the precise and clear explanations in the youtube tutorials or indeed the succinct and well thought out descriptions of features layed out in the online manual. No, the manual is too "dry". Instead, everyone needs to write a "renaissance book" together."

 
You totally fail to even comprehend what are you saying really. Did you even read the reasons why a new book would be a cool thing for everyone? The manual is nice and the book has nothing to do with whether a manual is there or not, every software comes with one (for the good ones) and Renoise is no exception. 
 
 

"I cant render to .wav"

"I can't understand how to use the song comments box"

"I want to use renoise to create sample-packs for re-sale"...and so on.

 
I never knew telepathy was a required talent for being a Renoiser. Wow, you just figured out that we most definitely have not read the manual or that we have ulterior motives.
 
 

I know all the chords anyway

My chords are bigger

The tutorials are not good enough, write a book

The manual is too dry

You cant grasp my sophisticated concepts

My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord..

 

 

I could not help but laugh at this one, ho ho ho (belly hurts....), bruh you got a talent for unintended comedy!!

 

I say we should have another thread for epic one liners like this:

 

My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord..

 

and even better :

 

You cant grasp my sophisticated concepts

 
or the best one yet:
 
My chords are bigger (than yours)
 
This one I could use as a song name. The other two would look fantastic on my T-shirts.
 
 
@garrett: You just made my day, bruh. Love you.

Edited by encryptedmind, 21 July 2017 - 08:10.

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#90 Garrett Wang

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:08

encryptedmind: "Guess we should simply get back to reading the manual and wait for joule's tool to be released."

Yes. I think its a good plan.

encryptedmind: "...in a mixed or mix-paste format of multiple lines interwoven, the step I would use is to firstly isolate individual instruments to their own note lanes and not intertwined. To do this I first have to select specific instrument numbers and copy or cut them only..."

Why would you write your track with multiple instruments in the same note columns or even the same tracks?
Its a good idea to keep each instrument in its own track as you will have to provide "stems" to be used in (probably) cubase or protools for the mastering process. If you did get multiple instruments mixed up into one track or note column what is the problem with remapping, swapping or deleting them using the advanced pattern editor operations?

encryptedmind: "...A lasso select selects everything and ALT+UP or DOWN certainly helps in spot selecting..."

ALT+UP or DOWN is used to change instruments. ALT+T selects a single track. SHIFT + ARROW KEYS makes a selection in the pattern editor. You can also make a selection with the mouse.

encryptedmind: "...a bulk chord labeller or grouping mechanism would help in terms of data management..."

While there is no chord labeller, the track grouping feature may be what you are looking for in terms of a useful "grouping mechanism"(drag one track onto another while holding down Alt).

The_Traveler: "Renoise is a tracker. Comparing it feature-wise to anything else other than a tracker, or expecting it to be anything more than a tracker is pointless IMO. Frankly, if Renoise had ZERO support for vsts for instance, it would still be about the most capable tracker I can think of and I've used quite a few of them over the last few decades. ;)...
You can add all the bells and whistles you want, but it's your BRAIN, not fancy vsts, arpeggiators, built-in improvisational tools, etc, that creates real music.


Exactly. Straight to the point.

@encryptedmind:

I'm reading through your ideas about the RAS and giving some constructive criticism which reflects my own point of view.

I agree with some of the suggestions in this thread:

1.) Mute/unmute clicking could be recorded into pattern effect commands (however, it is already possible to use a mixer volume points automation lane).

2.) It would be good to have a capable tuner inside renoise for tuning guitar, short looped samples, single cycle waveforms, as well as other instruments.

3.) Toggle on/off (used in combination with sustain and loop forward) would be a good feature in addition to "one shot" in terms of triggering samples.
 



#91 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:08

@Fsus4 & @encryptedmind: Here you have a solution to your problems:

  1. Lua 5.3 Reference Manualhttps://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/
  2. Renoise Lua Docshttps://github.com/renoise/xrnx
    1. Read the Introduction.txt, is very important, do not ignore because you do not have time. Then, continue with the rest: https://github.com/r...r/Documentation
    2. After reading all the documentation focus attention on the files like: Renoise.Song.API.lua & Renoise.ViewBuilder.API.lua
    3. Do not despair, and continue learning... The passage of the months will have its reward!
  3. Activate tool menu (scripting utilities): Do not forget to activate the menu of tools in Renoise (which is hidden). Do not expect a tool to do such a thing!
    1. By default Renoise has all scripting utilities hidden; to keep things as easy as possible for those who don't want to mess around with code. If you want to write scripts, then the first thing you have to do is enable the hidden development tools that are built into Renoise. This can be done by:
      - Launching the Renoise executable with the argument "--scripting-dev"
      - Opening Renoise's config.xml file from the preferences folder, and setting the  <ShowScriptingDevelopmentTools> property to true". This way, you don't have to pass the above mentioned argument every time you launch Renoise.
      Enabling scripting will add a new main menu entry "Tools" (or add new entries there if it already exists). 
  4. Forums about toolshttp://forum.renoise...nts-discussion/
  5. Of course, the Wiki Renoise manualhttp://tutorials.ren.../wiki/Main_Page
    1. Start at the beginning, and end at the end.
    2. It is possible to read the entire manual 100 times until you understand it.
    3. Learn the commands of the keyboard and its power: Renoise Help Menu / List Keyboard Shortcuts
    4. As well as the advanced editor panel of the pattern editor (right column drop down).
    5. http://files.renoise... Quickstart.pdf
    6. http://files.renoise...User Manual.pdf
  6. Make a "learning script" to create your custom tools.
  7. Any questions, ask here: http://forum.renoise...development-qa/
  8. Tricks and examples here: http://forum.renoise...ua-api-sandbox/
  9. ... etc?
  10. Acquire a decent USB alphanumeric keyboard. You will feel more comfortable with Reniose. It is their primary control tool. The mouse is a supportive, complementary tool. Do not invest a lot of money on MIDI keyboards (or MIDI pads) and then have alphanumeric keyboard "shit".
  • First exercise: Learn how to create a button, and associate a function to run. You will have already created your first tool! Congratulations!

 

 

The process of becoming a "lone wolf" is not so difficult, it only takes time. Here's the way. Look at the Moon!

 

Encouragement!

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#92 Renoised

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:20

I suspect Garrett is harbouring a dislike for the idea because he's thinking like a "Renoise Purist".

 

He just quoted "The_Traveler" and confirmed his train of thought as valid.  Fact is, it's complete nonsense and it goes comnpletely against what I personally wanted RAS to be.  They clearly see it as an attempt to change Renoise, to change the input methods etc, to change the way they do things.  That is not the case, as was pointed out, the opposite is true.  I already pointed out that (personally) I'd hate to see Renoise change into a standard DAW.  I absolutely, positively, and without reservation, want it to remain a tracker!

 

Garrett's apparent not understanding of this has got nothing to do with a language barrier, cause he's speaking perfect English.  I think the clue is in his agreement with the Traveler (who also got it wrong), so I think he's either trolling or having a laugh at your expense.  Personally, I'm not going over old ground constantly explaining why having this stuff built-in and not needing to know music theory, is preferable to having to do everything manually across multiple programs etc.  It should be obvious why, and it should also be obvious that such a system can only add to the power of Renoise.  No aspect of RAS poses a threat to the traditional way Renoise purists like to do things when they're working in Renoise.  RAS is something that would work hand-in hand with a tracker environment, and chord exploration is a very powerful and liberating thing.  It's especially liberating to those who would otherwise have no chance of producing such musical sounding work, and that's the vast majority.

 

Chords are the gift that create the backbone of a peice of work, and accompaniment systems are the perfect carrier for them.


Edited by Renoised, 21 July 2017 - 12:26.


#93 Garrett Wang

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:23

It could be quite useful to do a function like useful chords in chosen scale for all the scales that are already included in the renoise dropdown scales menu.

 

This would be the first set of chords:

 

C Major (ionian): C, D, E, F, G, A, B

 

C Maj: C E G (0 4 7)

Csus4: C F G (0 5 7)

C Maj7: C E G B (0 4 7 11)

Dmin: D F A (0 3 7)

Dsus4: D G A (0 5 7)

Dm7: D F A C (0 3 7 10)

Emin: E G B (0 3 7)

Esus4: E A B (0 5 7)

Em7: E G B D (0 3 7 10)

F Maj: F A C (0 4 7)

F Maj7: F A C E (0 4 7 11)

F6th: F A C D (0 4 7 9)

GMaj: B G D (0 4 7)

Gsus4: G C D (0 5 7)

G7th: G B D F (0 4 7 10)

Amin: A C E (0 3 7)

Asus4: A D E (0 5 7)

Am7: A C E G (0 3 7 10)

Bdim: B D F (0 3 6)

Bm7b5: B D F A (0 3 6 10)

 

Not all samples sound good as part of a chord.

The chord tools will be well suited to single-cycles rather than multiple oscillator kinds of sounds or metallic FM sounds which wont work as a chord.



#94 Renoised

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:31

Thanks for the heads-up, danoise, and duh, yes of course, never thought of using the sustain pedal!

The excuse for my stupidity is I don't have one connected at the moment :D



#95 danoise

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 13:54

@Renoised: Nah, it's not really obvious unless you're a piano player... but shame on you for missing out on the trigger options  :badteeth:

 

Btw: when we split this topic, I could already see where it was heading - any kind of performance environment built on top of something existing is bound to be a complex subject, and with strong opinions on what it's supposed to be. And that boils down to the numerous existing workflows people have - which makes this a "topic of interest" to me: always interesting to hear how you are actually using Renoise. 

 

For example, Fsus is looking to transform the existing song, and you're looking to create something new from scratch (OK, with a few preloaded instruments and stuff...).

And those are actually very different things. I would argue that it's more difficult to transform something existing because you would need to think about exactly what & where things are going to be affected - it's possible that you would _not_ want the entire pattern to be rewritten - say, to avoid that drum notes are touched. Which is totally fine, but Renoise does not have a property that says "this is a drum track", so it would have to be configured manually, somehow. In other words, the implementation would either change quite a number of things internally in Renoise, or it would be up to the user to configure/manage. 

 

Also, the way I see a possible RAS system, it needs to as accessible as possible. Here's how I imagine it could work:

  1. Visually, it could present itself as a few cleverly mapped midi keys and parameters for tweaking things. 
  2. When playing those keys/pads, it generates pattern data in realtime, without the need to manually enter anything or to make room in the song first.  
  3. The "RAS configuration" is integrated into the song itself - exactly which instruments you play with, what parameters are tweakable etc. 

So essentially, it could showcase of what Renoise can do with just a few instruments loaded up. Instant gratification achieved. But actually, it's the second part is what gets me excited - because right now you can't just hit play and start jamming (well...you can, but recording what you play requires a little planning ahead). So perhaps it makes sense to think about a "session recording mode" (something that ties into other discussions such as having multiple takes, overdub/punch-in recording modes etc.)

 

If we had something like RAS I would not want it to exist in a vacuum, but instead, add a few useful features that make it easier to pick up Renoise and start recording. 

Just my 2 ¢  :)

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#96 Fsus4

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 18:08

 

@Fsus4 & @encryptedmind: Here you have a solution to your problems:

  1. Lua 5.3 Reference Manualhttps://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/
  2. [...]

 

 

Yes, judging by some of the comments in this thread, it's probably the most fruitful route forward.


Edited by Fsus4, 21 July 2017 - 19:48.


#97 Renoised

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 19:32

 

@Renoised: Nah, it's not really obvious unless you're a piano player... but shame on you for missing out on the trigger options  :badteeth:

It's even worse than you think then, cause I'm a piano player :w00t:

 

I play by ear, but it still passes for playing on a good day!

True on the quantize thing as well, duh!

 

As for all the other stuff, well, I still think Garrett is having a laugh - I just do.  I don't for one minute think he's not aware of what we're getting at here.  He must be.  But I do agree about the general situation, it being an awkward one due to being harder to merge it into something we already have.  We do all have different ideas about it, that's clear from the discussion.  Also clear is that such things draw interest and gets people thinking about what these tools can do for their music, productivity, enjoyment etc.  We could go on for months about the purpose-built compositional wondertools out there, but I just want to see that sort of stuff inside Renoise!

 

I think peeps should be able to approach Renoise and get instant enjoyment out of chord/patterns (accompaniments), just as anyone can with those keyboards Casio and Yamaha make.  That stuff being integrated into Renoise makes it much more powerful than those keyboards, and with tools like Joule demonstrated well-integrated into Renoise and the accompaniment system as well, I really cannot see how anyone would not be completely addicted to something like that!

 

I wish I could be more helpful, but I can't as I'm not a scripter/programmer.


Edited by Renoised, 21 July 2017 - 19:38.


#98 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 19:55

Yes, I'll also go Lua scripting ASAP with the purpose of tailoring the tools I need.

 

Any questions you have, if I can help you, I will not hesitate to do so. Seriously, it's best not to waste so much time on discourses and learn to make tools, even if they are basic.
 
When you start to build, at first everything comes out basic, but there comes a time when you see yourself able to build almost anything, respecting the limits of available code, of course.

 

I have written the list not only for you or encryptedmind. For some reason, many users do not get started easily, they do not find what is needed. With these instructions, there is no longer any excuse.

 

If you know how to read, you will know how to program...

 

@Renoised. Any scripter before was not scripter. It began to be at some point. Nobody is born knowing! Making tools "is almost like playing the piano". At least you know what a button is. For something one starts...


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Spoiler

 

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Spoiler

#99 Fsus4

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 20:15

 

I could not help but laugh at this one, ho ho ho (belly hurts....), bruh you got a talent for unintended comedy!!

 

I say we should have another thread for epic one liners like this:

 

My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord..

 

and even better :

 

You cant grasp my sophisticated concepts

 
or the best one yet:
 
My chords are bigger (than yours)
 
This one I could use as a song name. The other two would look fantastic on my T-shirts.
 
 
@garrett: You just made my day, bruh. Love you.

 

 

Yeah, I just love that "My patterns are not so simple, I need 500 tracks for the epic C Major chord" line. Haha :lol:

 

@Garret Wang, you're a funny fellow. But in case you actually did think I was using 500+ tracks, then let's just say X number of tracks to illustrate the point.

 

Now why don't we all just do our best to turn this thread into an epic one, let's all sing together:

 


Edited by Fsus4, 21 July 2017 - 20:17.

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#100 encryptedmind

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 21:19

encryptedmind: "Guess we should simply get back to reading the manual and wait for joule's tool to be released."


Yes. I think its a good plan.

 

 

@garrett: That was either Fsus4 or someone else, cos I dont even remember me writing that line. So this shows you are either vindictive and wrongly attributing the statements of other forum members, or just plain not paying attention. Drink some coffee before you 'mix-paste' the forum content. 

 



encryptedmind: "...in a mixed or mix-paste format of multiple lines interwoven, the step I would use is to firstly isolate individual instruments to their own note lanes and not intertwined. To do this I first have to select specific instrument numbers and copy or cut them only..."

Why would you write your track with multiple instruments in the same note columns or even the same tracks?
Its a good idea to keep each instrument in its own track as you will have to provide "stems" to be used in (probably) cubase or protools for the mastering process. If you did get multiple instruments mixed up into one track or note column what is the problem with remapping, swapping or deleting them using the advanced pattern editor operations?

 

 

@garret: Misconception of the highest order. You yourself said in a previous post somewhere that you are beginning to learn about theory and all this. Obviously you have not heard about the word "Counterpoint" or "Pedal Point". If so why in the world are you so easily jumping to conclusions and trying to sound condescending AS IF @encryptedmind does not know what he is talking about, "how could he be so amateurish??eh?". It is obvious to anyone with a shred of acuity, that I am talking in those terms and not talking about making a melange of multi-instrument note trenches. How uncouth, really. When you work in a sheet music view, you can either color the voices lanes individually or demarcate the multiple 'interwoven' lines in a far far smoother way for that sort of composition workflow and that is what I am talking about here. That I know for sure that you neither use scoreing packages or read music. So why are we discussing this point?

 

I notice that this is the type of responses you are crafting all the time and its not single use case. You seem to take pleasure in going for the most inappropriate assumptions and then talk 'at length' about the validity of your inferences. You are a poor debater for sure. I mean if this is how you came up with a software feature brainstorm in any IT company say even inside an antivirus company, this sort of directionless doodling will cost you your job in future. People must use their time in a constructive manner and not engage in this sort of mindless debate, especially when holding a line of thought is such a difficult chore with your kind of 'limitations'. Let me ask you this - do you even understand what is a Rhetorical question? How does that differ from a real question? How does humour, a metaphor and sarcasm differ from innuendo? Just being able to type in English does not neccessarily mean that you have fluency or have the ability to extract the nuances of the language. English is literally my mother tongue and I am known to be an excellent debater right from school college days. Think straight and think sure and confirm before you jump. Jumping to conclusions is like jumping from a plane without a parachute.. 

 

 

More examples how you reply to others (I dont speak for them, but for example):

 

"Some of the things being written in this discussion give me the sense that some of the RAS tool enthusiasts, though quick to point out to others "you haven't grasped the concept" or "you have missed the point of RAS", haven't spent the necessary time and effort to understand the full feature set of Renoise.

 

For example, when someone says the value of this tool is that it will transpose my "500+ tracks pattern" written in C Major into any chord, it shows that the person who commented, in all probability, hasn't really written much music in renoise to begin with."

 

 

 

The first quote is full of condescension. The second quote is basically your literal translation of a 'figure of speech' or a metaphor. Your converstational abilities are limited to a rather dogmatic strain of comprehension that fails to 1) address the problem 2) propose a valid solution. The only thing you have is conjectures. I suppose programming is not your strong suite. How will you 'logically' solve real world problems and translate them to the machine script if you cant even translate basic human conversation.  

Its honestly for your own good. I cannot be rude in these forums, though I can have a very vitriolic tongue in real life. Not cool. 

 


encryptedmind: "...A lasso select selects everything and ALT+UP or DOWN certainly helps in spot selecting..."

ALT+UP or DOWN is used to change instruments. ALT+T selects a single track. SHIFT + ARROW KEYS makes a selection in the pattern editor. You can also make a selection with the mouse.

 

 

@garret: Haha, now is my time to pwn you (not a typo, if you know what it means). Mr. Expert, look and listen. If you press the SHIFT+ARROW KEYS you get bulk selection. ALT+T slects the track and of course ALT+UP AND DOWN changes instruments. BUUUUUT< did you know that I have a SUPERB SECRET TO SHARE??? 

 

IF you press SHIFT+ALT + ARROW KEYS you can make use of granular selection which I do a LOOOOT. 

 

Next time you make this kind of "I know better than you" style responses, just follow your OWN advice. RTFM (Read the Friggin' Manual). HAHA I just PWNED you.  :drummer:

 

 


encryptedmind: "...a bulk chord labeller or grouping mechanism would help in terms of data management..."

While there is no chord labeller, the track grouping feature may be what you are looking for in terms of a useful "grouping mechanism"(drag one track onto another while holding down Alt).

 

 

@garret : This is a useful tip that I just use the Ctrl+G and the ALT+Drag drop method. This we already use and its a good reminder.

 

 

 

 

@encryptedmind:

I'm reading through your ideas about the RAS and giving some constructive criticism which reflects my own point of view.

I agree with some of the suggestions in this thread:

1.) Mute/unmute clicking could be recorded into pattern effect commands (however, it is already possible to use a mixer volume points automation lane).

2.) It would be good to have a capable tuner inside renoise for tuning guitar, short looped samples, single cycle waveforms, as well as other instruments.

3.) Toggle on/off (used in combination with sustain and loop forward) would be a good feature in addition to "one shot" in terms of triggering samples.

 

 

@garret: I never talked about the point 3, that was @renoised I suppose (you always mix people up, not attentive even...). Guitar tuner I would like it inside Renoise, though many a VST plugins do the same thing so its not a deal breaker in anyway, just a preference. Regarding the mutes/solos automation, it could be a little more streamlined though it kindof works for me, since I like things precise and the pattern automation commands look good in that respect becos you see the value and the position at the same time.


Edited by encryptedmind, 21 July 2017 - 22:10.

encryptedmind

Victor Marak

 

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