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Anyone who likes Aphex Twin and trackers...


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#26 encryptedmind

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 00:50

computer ( don't believe me? check http://deposit4se.tumblr.com/)


I feel you, but what, you are doing is good discipline and I suppose life in Estonia must be great living in Europe with great culture and food under the sun:). Btw for money matters visit http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/. Superb advice he gives with a more contemporary focus.

Edited by encryptedmind, 28 July 2017 - 00:53.

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#27 esaruoho

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 07:40

Admit it - you didn't know about this feature  :P

 

i've used it but it sucked.


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#28 esaruoho

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:24

I feel you, but what, you are doing is good discipline and I suppose life in Estonia must be great living in Europe with great culture and food under the sun:). 

 

Why are you talkin about Estonia?


Admit it - you didn't know about this feature  :P

 

btw my comment was followed by a simple sentence where i take encryptedmind down a notch. he's all like "use this" then goes to explain why it isn't great, fully echoing afx's writeup on why the gain is wrong on destructive rendering-to-sample. so why bother suggesting "this is a great solution to this problem" when you then follow it up with "actually not a great solution because of this that and the other"


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#29 Djeroek

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:57

Last time I checked the fx button rendered in the vsts just fine into the sample, at least I couldn't tell any difference from the original. I thought the gain thing Aphex describes might relate to the headroom settings in the song settings, something he may not be aware of?

Can someone like dblue, scientifically ;-) proof that there is indeed something fishy going on with the fx button in the sample editor?

Not in front a computer with renoise to do tests myself.
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#30 encryptedmind

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 10:08

Why are you talkin about Estonia?

btw my comment was followed by a simple sentence where i take encryptedmind down a notch. he's all like "use this" then goes to explain why it isn't great, fully echoing afx's writeup on why the gain is wrong on destructive rendering-to-sample. so why bother suggesting "this is a great solution to this problem" when you then follow it up with "actually not a great solution because of this that and the other"

Your original post was a direct copy paste of Aphex's interview snippet. It clearly mentions that he was expecting FX printing from the sampler as well, which FYI is not a 'missing' feature. More than any other DAW I have yet to see this kind of decoupling within the environment, where the track FX stand on their own and can be rendered to a new wave file as well as have a separate and more involved DSP chain(s) that can individually be modulated, and finally the DSP chains can be printed on the samples. Either AFX missed this feature or you failed to address this part, by first making it clear that this feature exists in Renoise.

Secondly, I was talking in terms of using Renoise dsp FX which in general is not too polished like Waves plugins but it gets the job done. When it comes to printing it in the sampler wave, I was not making an anti statement about whether it is worth it or not. Depending on the quality of plugins and the sample bit depth and soundcard bit depth etc, internal convertion can sometimes be a little crude. That is all, the feature exists and it works pretty well too.

When you say it sucks, how come 1) you never addressed that FX printing exists.
2) if you never were privy about step 1 then how in the world could you tell whether FX printing sucked or not?

Your glaring omissions have nothing on my airtight argument and 'solutions' that I suggested. In fact you always seem to complain about the very medicine for your ailment, for instance, suppose me is a doctor saying that "this medicine is right there in your bedroom closet, but it tastes bitter, but it works", you will say "oh, so you saying that the medicine is bad". It seems you have a limited understanding of things. If I say get a faster computer you will say you have no money, if you read my previous post to you where I say that you can use Soundforge for offline FX printing as Burial does on his old computer, you will probably say it's too difficult... I don't have a solution for both your money and your learning ability at the same time

Unless you clarify things upfront, it's very easy to argue post mortem about what you meant in retrospect, because you can try to interpolate or fabricate facts. Ergo, you have not taken me down one bit😁
But, I see you are a long time member who uses Renoise so no disrespect, but love :)


Regarding Estonia, I dunno I prolly saw Estonia written somewhere in the link you sent, I thought maybe you are there, btw what language were the receipts in?...😋

Edited by encryptedmind, 28 July 2017 - 10:18.

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#31 encryptedmind

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 10:14

Regarding the other two features like changing instrument number of a track from the Pattern editor and choosing note names from the Pattern editor from a popup, I am working on a tool that will solve these issues and a couple other personal additions, in the Renoise fashion. Renoise is way superior to PPro so I will add the feature set but not emulate it.

Edited by encryptedmind, 28 July 2017 - 10:16.

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#32 danoise

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:04

Can someone like dblue, scientifically ;-) proof that there is indeed something fishy going on with the fx button


We briefly talked about this yesterday, and he (dblue) pointed out that the samples preserve their samplerate as you apply FX to them.
So, if your source sample is 44.1kHz and the song is being played in 96kHz, then yes - there's an audible difference.

It makes sense. Would be great to automatically (but optionally) change to adopt the projects sample-rate, of course.
But a simply click on 'Adjust' before applying the FX will take of it as well...


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#33 esaruoho

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:42

We briefly talked about this yesterday, and he (dblue) pointed out that the samples preserve their samplerate as you apply FX to them.
So, if you source sample is 44.1kHz and the song is being played in 96kHz, then yes - there's an audible difference.

It makes sense. Would be great to automatically (but optionally) change to adopt the projects sample-rate, of course.
But a simply click on 'Adjust' before applying the FX will take of it as well...

 

 

doesn't seem like clicking on adjust to adjust something briefly is going to be a thing imaginary people who like complaining about stuff, would like to do.


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#34 encryptedmind

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:55

.

Edited by encryptedmind, 28 July 2017 - 12:04.

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#35 AKM

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 16:34

I'm new here, demoing/learning Renoise. This thing about rendering sample fx is quite an issue to me. Just checked it with some reverbs - yes, the difference is huge between "live" and rendered.

 

added: so what about rendering the song or pattern, is it the same problem?


Edited by AKM, 28 July 2017 - 16:37.

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#36 sokoban

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 17:59

Me like Apex Twich


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#37 OopsIFly

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 19:39

I never use the "apply track/inst dsp fx to sample" thing. It just isn't flexible enough. I also didn't know it could also appy an inst fx chain, but it seems to just render the active lane for the sample, and ignore sends...?

 

I normally just make an empty pattern long enough, add the dsp there (then I can preview in realtime at leisure, just have to keep an eye on the effect of my master chain), and then add a note and render selection to sample.

 

Why? Because this way I have control over sample rate and sample playback pitch etc, can even automate parameters along the way...and can even make complex variations of it by cloning patterns and editing them, all the way through the town.

 

To make the apply dsp fx option valuable, for me it would need added options about rendering rate (so renoise runs at 44.1 for perf reasons, but I want to dsp fx at 192 and then downsample afterwards, for quality reasons...), and also the pitch/speed the sample will be fed through the dsp.

 

Interesting about the idea of applying mixing eq to a sample, rendered. Now how would this work, like an instrument grabber through the eq? because if you render one EQ setting, and then repitch the sample, the eqing curve will be transposed also. Formants would be turned into partials. Maybe this effect is interesting as an alternative mixing approach, preserving the resulting timbre of the instruments in a more direct way? It is different for sure, but I guess it complicates mixing, or rather, turns mixing into something else? Now I do apply eqing/filtering onto samples by resampling them (via the render selection way...), but then I consider this a sound design step to produce waves with a certain shape and/or timbre that I can work with, and still try to EQ afterwards with a realtime live EQ to make it fit to the other sounds going on without turning into mud....


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#38 AKM

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 22:57

...btw, I just checked, you 'can' drop a sample directly onto the pattern in 3.1.


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#39 danoise

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 15:04

This thing about rendering sample fx is quite an issue to me. Just checked it with some reverbs - yes, the difference is huge between "live" and rendered.

 

Explained here : http://forum.renoise...ckers/?p=359385


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#40 AKM

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 11:04

Need to be double/triple checked but I pretty much sure that the song sample rate and the actual sample sample rate was the same ones, 44.1kHz 16 bit.


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