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Renoise, my thoughts


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#26 Renoised

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 23:42

What pissed me off a bit about Caustic is that "fake portamento" option. It'd be OK for 303 one but it also goes for Modular. I was able to figure out how to build a real "legato" in Modular but not succeeded regarding the "portamento" (with retrigger of the first note). Well, I made something, sort of, to be exact, that don't retrigger the envelopes but it was far from a normal portamento glide.

 

I know what you mean, in fact there's thread about that somewhere on the forum, and I'm pretty sure it was a discussion that started cause someone asked about pitch bend.

 

I don't have it installed on the machine I'm at right now, so can't check, but I think they added a proper portamento glide to one of the modular's modules, probably placed on the back of one of them so you'd have to flip it around to see the reverse.  I'm assuming it was an oscillator module for obvious reasons, but can't remember now.  Unless I'm thinking of something else.  It's easy to miss some of the stuff that's placed on the rear of those modules, done it a few times myself.


Edited by Renoised, 20 August 2017 - 23:44.

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#27 2 daze j

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 00:50

Renoise is marketed organically through word of mouth and stuff.  You can't expect much more with this software.  99% of people who produce music nowadays are idiots who just got into because Reason, Cubase, Ableton, etc come with a zillion sounds and drum beats.

 

Renoise is still supported.  I doubt development has stopped.  What more would you do anyways?   If you right a letter to support because you need something, you will more than likely get a response.

 

Just enjoy the software and the community.   Renoise is very special.


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#28 TechnicallyYes

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 20:04

Another member just arrived after reading the CDM article. After struggling with Ableton to make anything meaningful after a long break from making music - I've bashed together something I'm happy with in a few days with ReNoise. It's a shameless, inferior Aphex clone, but it's pretty much a whole song, and, more importantly, I enjoyed it and felt forward impetus the whole way through making it. That's all down to the tracker format suiting me, in a sfotware that doesn't seem to have any limitations.

 

So yeah, to the OP's post, it's a shame more people don't know about ReNoise, it might be the key to getting them into making music (again)


Edited by TechincallyYes, 07 September 2017 - 21:39.

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#29 Medievil-Music

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 13:24

Hello ! 
Its such a good status.
I have another view on all of that and i want to write it in RU and EN ( I translated this text from RU, because my english has been destroyed here in Russia for 3 years" RU is dominating for me ")
Anyways :
 
I respect your opinion, but it seems to me that stopping the development of this program is associated with a very logical reason: Inconsistency in the level of thinking of current users with what this program represents.
I can say with boldness that Renoiz is one of the most full-fledged and full-featured programs in the world where it is possible for developers to not release updates in just two years, but five years without any concern. Since almost \\ in my opinion \ 97 percent of the users of Renoise use only 30 percent of the functionality and ability of the program \\ as a maximum \\, they always count on updates and updates, and so on. Why wait for updates if most users do not understand 80 percent of the functions of the current version of the program? * ?? Where is the logic *?
The second question is when we are talking about the specification of some new functions in renoise, so you are a new user, right? How can you give such a superficial assessment of a dish, if you have not yet tasted it completely?) Again there is no logic here.
Sorry for such aggressive statements, but it seems to me that it's time for Renoise users to start using the program fully for the beginning, and then go to the forum and impose and complain about the creators that they are not working or that do not work out. For me, Renois does not need further development. This is a full-fledged program with all the functions, and my projects here among the users of Renoise are making this clear.
Start with the Artist, not with the pencil ....
 
Majed Salih 2017
 
 
RU: " Я перевел данный текст на английский, поскольку за прошедшие 3 года проживания на территории РФ , мой английский язык был полностью уничтожен , прям до основания " 
Уважаю ваше мнение , но мне кажется, что остановление разработки данной программы связано с очень логичной причиной : Несоответствие уровня мышления текущих пользователи с тем, что из себя представляет данная программа.
Я могу со смелостью сказать , что Реноиз является одиой из самых полноценных и полнофункциональных программ в мире , где можно разработникам без всякого стеснения не выпускать апдейты не только в течении двух лет , но пяти лет. Поскольку почти \\ на мой взгляд \\ 97 процентов пользователей Ренойза используют всего навсего 30 процентов функционала и способности программы \\как максимум \\, они всегда рассчитывают на обновления и апдейты и тд. Зачем ждать обновления если большинство пользователей не усвоили 80 процентов из функций текущей версии программы ?*?? Где тут логика *? 
Второй вопрос, когда мы говорим о спецификации каких то новых функции в ренойзе , так вы же являетесь новым пользователем, правильно ? как можно давать такие поверхностные оценки о блюде , если вы его еще не дегустировали полностью ?) Опять ж тут логики нет.
Извините за столь агрессивные высказывания, но мне кажется что пора пользователям Ренойза начать пользоваться программой полноценно для начала, а потом идти в форум и наложить и жаловаться создателям о том, что они плохо работают или что то не дорабатывают.
Для меня, Ренойз не нуждается в дальнейших разработках. Это полноценная программа со всеми функциями , и мои проекты тут среди пользователей Ренойз свидетельствуют об этом. 
Начните с Художника , а не с карандаша ....
 
Мажид Салих 2017


#30 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 18:03

@Medievil-Music. I really love one of your songs!  :D In fact, I would propose that his song be added in Renoise's new update. I think you already know what song I mean.

 

On the other hand, I would like to leave a reflection based on your comment. You charge against people you consider new, or with little experience with Renoise. But I would focus on being more objective and also see the opinion of those who are more experts, who have spent years with Renoise and know him quite well. He who knows a little Renoise, especially the latest version, will notice that there are several sections to be polished.

 

It is not finished software at all. It is simply another version, which can be improved (things that Renoise already has) or can be extended (add other things that Renoise does not have). I am not going to add now an extensive list of things that can be improved (things to improve, not things to add).

 

Keep in mind that in these forums you can join, in my opinion, up to 3 types of users.

  1. New users, who start with Renoise and do not know other DAWs. They are users who start with musical production, and miraculously use Renoise.
  2. Users with little or much experience with other DAWs, who start using Renoise and are amazed at their abilities. These users often suggest ideas that they have seen in other DAWs and they yearn.
  3. Users who know Renoise well, have spent years with him and know much of its characteristics.

Maybe we can add more types of users, but it is a summary. All these users, not just novices, add suggestions to improve Renoise, and many of them are not nonsense, they would make Renoise evolve as it deserves (I'm not talking about a pianoroll or audio waves, I think they will never be implemented).

 

Stop going against the tide, complaining about the people who complain. Renoise will continue to evolve. And later people who complain now and that says that Renoise does not need more updates, will be the first to celebrate that Renoise has improved.

 

And finally, another detail... To compose a complex song, it is not necessary to use 100% of all Renoise's features. That does not mean that certain characteristics can not be known well, and that people who do not know Renoise 100% do not deserve to be heard or their opinions do not count. Lately, I have read comments from users who have little participation in these forums with excellent suggestions.

 

One thing is certain When the next version of Renoise comes out, everyone like crazy to download it. Please, users who consider that Renoise does not need more updates, continue using the old version, do not download future versions!

 

I do not know the Russian language. My native language is Spanish. But I will not write in Spanish. I'm just going to put 4 things that, in my opinion, and I'm pretty sure of it, you're never going to see Renoise:

  1. Multilanguage. Renoise will never be multilingual.
  2. Pianoroll. You will never see a native pianoroll in Renoise. That will be built, miraculously, in a tool, with its limitations.
  3. Audio Tracks. There will be no audio tracks. These last two things break the essence of an advanced tracker. The best suggestions are focused on improving features based on the tracker. And there are many. The pattern editor can be improved, the automation editor is very basic, too. There are many details that could be improved.
  4. Good support and periodic updates. Every year is the same, the same story is repeated. People complain that there are no updates, that there are a lot of bugs already solved but there is the version that has solved them. And then Taktik comes back and often same, that forums are getting weird and surprised by it, as if new people, or not so new in the forums, had to know everything in depth before commenting anything.

A few weeks ago, a new user came in and asked about Renoise updates. No one has answered yet. Therefore, one of the best characteristics of these forums is precisely the people who participate, who complains, who thinks, who suggests and who wants more and more.

 

Ok,  after venting with you, I propose the song "Fly With Me" of Medieval-Music, to appear in the next Renoise update package...


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#31 sokoban

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 20:16

I would like to add that it's not because people use only 30% of a DAW that the DAW is 100% complete. Not at all. I admit Renoise is sufficient as is, but complete, absolutely not. And I can affirm that some features that I would like to see in Renoise are NOT in the 70% that I don't use...

;)  :P 
 


Edited by sokoban, 08 September 2017 - 21:22.

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#32 Medievil-Music

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 22:16

@RAUL

 

Hey man ! well you accept it that all in direct ) I wrote in RU because i speak better in RU " + our friend is from Russia " than in EN.My native language is Syrian anyways "Ps im from Syria"

 

-I am not charging on anyone in here , actually i am just a little bit upset of these endless posts asking about Renoise updates .Why asking always about updates and updates . Its the same if you have a full cup of water and you ask for more water and more and more .. where should it be used ? you have an almost a full cup of water , you know what i mean.

 

-Another thing / Yeas you are right about the new versions \ you can check my Etudes For Electronica projects , 60 percent of them have been made in older versions " I have a 1.8 version till today and i use it in writing some genres because it acts simpler than 3.1 in some aspects" . 
 

 

Stop going against the tide, complaining about the people who complain. Renoise will continue to evolve. And later people who complain now and that says that Renoise does not need more updates, will be the first to celebrate that Renoise has improved.

 

 

1-I am not going against the tide. This is my 1st type of answers on such a subject \\ we cant just use it under a microscope to make other things ln my statement look smaller .I dont have anything against new \ old or future users of renoise.

2-My words did not mean that renoise should stop evolving itself or something like that.

3-I am calling users to be more Constructive , than complaining about options that they didnt even try .It is not about the post owner, i am just seeing these complains almost in every 2nd post in this forum.
4-I always download the new versions of renosie after 5 or 6 months of the release date " Because i work in that time to understand more functions of the older version"
5-Still a lot of things that i dont know in 3.1 , Renoise team answered me days ago and "Invented" a way about how to save patterns in phrases , this is what i am talking about, there is a lot of undiscovered aspects inside of the program itself even for me. 

6-I dont think that Renoise team should be concerned about the updates issues when people ask for it. They are people too and they need INSPIRATION ^_^. Maybe it is not time to update renoise.
7-I dont think that new users suggestions are crazy @i did not say that @ . I think it is logical . 

 

 

 

I do not know the Russian language. My native language is Spanish. But I will not write in Spanish. I'm just going to put 4 things that, in my opinion, and I'm pretty sure of it, you're never going to see Renoise:

  1. Multilanguage. Renoise will never be multilingual.
  2. Pianoroll. You will never see a native pianoroll in Renoise. That will be built, miraculously, in a tool, with its limitations.
  3. Audio Tracks. There will be no audio tracks. These last two things break the essence of an advanced tracker. The best suggestions are focused on improving features based on the tracker. And there are many. The pattern editor can be improved, the automation editor is very basic, too. There are many details that could be improved.
  4. Good support and periodic updates. Every year is the same, the same story is repeated. People complain that there are no updates, that there are a lot of bugs already solved but there is the version that has solved them. And then Taktik comes back and often same, that forums are getting weird and surprised by it, as if new people, or not so new in the forums, had to know everything in depth before commenting anything.

 

Well lets start from here :

1- the concept of Renoise that it is a tracker based daw. Why do we need a Piano roll in a tracker ? Its like putting some wheels on a submarine ...
2-In 21 century , i do not think that Multilanguage is a critical problem . Today even birds ,clouds or an empty Cokacola can \ can \  speak or at least understand EN. ^_^ 
3-The Renoise forum and team are so positive and interactive people , and they are doing their best to answer in minimal amount of time in comparing with another daw's forums ." Check out FL studio's forum for example < its a warez sea> "

Thank you for choosing my song FLY WITH ME . Now i am working on a new very complex house music track that called :Welcome to Kazan " Kazan is a city in central Russian region" .It is a part of my upcoming project Kazan Electrohack , Im sure that you will change your mind after listening to it .




 



#33 Garrett Wang

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 02:51

Cubase and Protools are available as expensive options for music professionals who have access to studios and high end audio gear. They are good for professionals who are able to budget for high powered computers, who want to record live musicians and arrange everything professionally then get through the whole mastering process. Cubase and protools are quite bloated with features but they are considered to be industry standards.

 

Ableton is there as software that can be used for live looping and clip launching, pad drumming, live addition of effects, quick arrangement of tracks. Its great but its also quite expensive and requires an expensive computer to run well.

 

As for Renoise... It is not designed for recording live instruments or vocals in long takes like cubase or protools, it is not as straight-forward to learn to use as ableton, but it is an incredible, powerful, beastly, mysterious force to be reckoned with as a sampler-sequencer and it has no problem precisely controlling any knob or slider on any VST either. The way it is programmed is so tight and efficient that it does not always require the latest, most expensive computers to run it. All the features are well thought out. The tutorials and the manual are great. Its not too bloated or bogged down with unnecessary features and the price is perfect. I think that is the right price for software, especially nice software like renoise. I think it is a little difficult at first when it comes to programming triplets (unless 12 lines per beat is used ). Maybe that is what throws people off. Also perhaps some people had seen freeware like skale tracker back in the day and assumed that renoise should be free as well, but renoise is in another league and well worth the price.

 

In my opinion renoise is in the same kind of software niche as the AKAI MPC, MASCHINE, REASON softwares in that its something which is capable of making professional tracks without being ridiculously wealthy and its software you can write tracks start to finish with, without owning a whole studio and mixing desk, mics and all the things you can read about in magazines.

 

I came to renoise after using MPC1000, an electric bass guitar and milkytracker in combination. I'm now using the AKAI MPD218 with renoise. This solution is so much better than the headache of compact flashcards and stuff I had to go through with the MPC.

 

Renoise is mysteriously well known although perhaps purposefully under-marketed. Its even a little popular in Japan, quite underground. Its got the best sequencer and sample editor out of anything. I hope it sells more so that it can keep on developing throughout the years

( for ten thousand years, until the pebbles grow into boulders lush with moss ) but I also hope it doesnt get so popular that it gets a bombardment of harrassment for "pianoroll!" and " be more like ableton!".

 

As for VST 303's. I hear Phoscyon by D16 group is the best. Not quite like a real 303 though, maybe I'm wrong.


Edited by Garrett Wang, 09 September 2017 - 02:59.

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#34 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 13:26

I just want to leave a few more reflections, which have to do with a common feeling that we all have...

 

Renoise is powerful and great software. Only this fact, without going into depth in what Renoise has and does not have, is enough for users to want it to improve this software. Renoise is so great that she is able to arouse feelings that other DAWs do not achieve.

 

Most DAWs are driven by advertising and marketing, and are very similar. Some of them even have hardware made on purpose to control them. Renoise does not have any of that. All the feeling is generated by the software itself. That's why some users are so excited to see more updates of Renoise, because it is great, and deserves it.

 

I imagine a new version with 4 things and I was excited:

  1. Drastic improvement of automation editor
  2. GUI with support of high resolutions.
  3. Review of the pattern editor, with addition of more functions, improvement of the inferior menu of buttons (similar to Redux), that facilitates the insertion (and understanding) of parameters, all for the benefit of the tracker. Including line-playing, chord insertion, and other functions. I would even check the advanced operations panel.
  4. Review the API to create tools. There is already an extensive list of suggestions.

All this has nothing to do with Pianoroll and audio tracks. Actually, I miss a comprehensive wave analyzer of the entire song for the post-production process. These are some aspects that I consider essential. And in depth, it is possible to improve some details. For example, opening and navigating between note columns is tedious. The navigation between tracks also is. There is also a small bug with UNDO, which does not select the correct track when it comes to adding or removing any type of track. These are details that need to be revised, and that would improve the workflow. And all this does not imply turning Renoise into something that he is not. Absolutely.

 

Renoise's team is aware of all this. Taktik only need to take the reins again, and return. Well, why are not there more updates? Simply because he is not here. When he returns, we will all notice him!!!

 

This summary is everything: Renoise can not stay like this. He's too big and he does not deserve it!

 

This software receive too much love! There must be a reason. Everybody wants to see him better dressed...


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:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 26 September 2017):

Spoiler

#35 Medievil-Music

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 15:26

 

 

Renoise's team is aware of all this. Taktik only need to take the reins again, and return. Well, why are not there more updates? Simply because he is not here. When he returns, we will all notice him!!!

 

This summary is everything: Renoise can not stay like this. He's too big and he does not deserve it!

 

This software receive too much love! There must be a reason. Everybody wants to see him better dressed...

Well i dunno about that man! I did not know that updates related and moderated by Taktik .
I have no information about this issue.

It is not only Renoise issue man . Ableton is still Ableton 9 for 3 years . FL studio still 12 .....etc 
I think that warez made their strike on daws market or something financial is causing this.
 



#36 Garrett Wang

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 19:22

There is a strange phenomenon associated with tracker softwares, that is, most of them mysteriously stop development at version 3.1 and dont make it to version 4, so maybe thats why tracker enthusiasts are getting scared nowadays.


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#37 sokoban

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 20:06

But this time, the spell seems to be broken:

 

42bf76d7e25f50c906333be9636f2a6a.png


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#38 ashy!mpala

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 23:10

While agreed with 95% of all the posts above, there is also another drawback with trackers marketing-wise. When a musician (with few or ordinary computer knowledge) wants to begin music production, he/she unintentionally prefers a piano-roll sequencer to a tracker, because he more easily *SEES* what he has already known. It would take some time and experience for many of these musicians to start to feel the advantages of a DAW like Renoise. Many of the great and talented Renoisers in this community are those who have migrated to Renoise from earlier trackers, many have the experience of using them on Amigas even. In today's market, it'd be very hard to advertise for a tracker rather than an easier-to-use piano-roll sequencer, that's a fact.

 

The introduction of Redux is a great step forward IMHO. Advertising Redux is not less valuable than advertising Renoise itself, but maybe more. As it can be used along many other DAWs, and so many would use and test it, it could be a big show of Renoise as it is a small example of vast capabilities of it. If you're spreading the word, don't forget to also mention Redux vst.

 

Another good way of promoting Renoise is to emphasize on its flexibility to be used alongside other DAWs, its support of Rewire for instance, among many others. Good musicians are those who don't limit themselves to a certain tool, making good music is the ultimate goal for them. Many might use several DAWs in making an album or track, and Renoise indeed could be an important tool in their collection although many don't know it yet. Consider the list of DAWs Aphex Twin uses in wikipedia:

    Audacity
    Ableton Live
    Pro Tools
    Cubase
    Max
    PlayerPro Tracker
    Reaktor
    Reason
    ReCycle
    Renoise
    SuperCollider
    Logic Pro


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#39 Mivo

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:21

As for updates, I think people enjoy updates because there is usually hype, excitement, something to look forward to, fool around with, experiment with. Active development strengthens the community, brings in new people, offers new subjects to talk about. It also feels nice to be part of something that is evolving.

None of these points are necessarily about needing more functionality; it's more psychological in nature. Twenty or thirty years ago users didn't expect updates, but today's world is quite different. Software development moves much faster and requires more agility (as well as community work) to stay competitive. I love Renoise, I recommend Renoise, but if I were a new user looking at the available options and I saw that the last update was released two years ago, I would be much more hesitant to buy it. In a way this is shallow, I fully realize this, but see above: today you buy more than just a license, you also buy that other stuff and you kind of invest into the program's future (or perceive that you do).

Personally, for me, Renoise has all the functionality I want from it for making tracks. What it doesn't have, and for me this is becoming increasingly more of a deal breaker, is high-dpi support. This had been worked on already, and then the update was put on the backburner. I understand economical pressure, so really can't blame Taktik and I'd feel hypocritical if I did, but it's a bit of a vicious circle: there are fewer updates now because (presumably) Renoise can't sustain a full time programmer, and it (presumably) can't sustain a full time programmer because lack of updates and modernization. Or maybe it's just too niche, I don't know. I do know that our talking about lack of updates isn't helping matters, though, which is why I cringe a bit when I grumble about the lack of high-dpi support. It really is a fine program.
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#40 TechnicallyYes

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 23:02

As for updates, I think people enjoy updates because there is usually hype, excitement, something to look forward to, fool around with, experiment with. Active development strengthens the community, brings in new people, offers new subjects to talk about. It also feels nice to be part of something that is evolving.

None of these points are necessarily about needing more functionality; it's more psychological in nature. Twenty or thirty years ago users didn't expect updates, but today's world is quite different. Software development moves much faster and requires more agility (as well as community work) to stay competitive. I love Renoise, I recommend Renoise, but if I were a new user looking at the available options and I saw that the last update was released two years ago, I would be much more hesitant to buy it. In a way this is shallow, I fully realize this, but see above: today you buy more than just a license, you also buy that other stuff and you kind of invest into the program's future (or perceive that you do).

Personally, for me, Renoise has all the functionality I want from it for making tracks. What it doesn't have, and for me this is becoming increasingly more of a deal breaker, is high-dpi support. This had been worked on already, and then the update was put on the backburner. I understand economical pressure, so really can't blame Taktik and I'd feel hypocritical if I did, but it's a bit of a vicious circle: there are fewer updates now because (presumably) Renoise can't sustain a full time programmer, and it (presumably) can't sustain a full time programmer because lack of updates and modernization. Or maybe it's just too niche, I don't know. I do know that our talking about lack of updates isn't helping matters, though, which is why I cringe a bit when I grumble about the lack of high-dpi support. It really is a fine program.

what do you mean by high dpi? You mean literally for hi res screens, or more automation points?