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#1 Medievil-Music

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 18:52

Hello my dear friends.
I have a question for Renoise programmers and developers . Is there any further ideas to add an option like Save pattern as a template \ save mixer settings as a template \ or as a fast dial variant . It will be so useful for saving some time while working on transitions and stuff like that in renoise 
Example : When i work on a House \ Deep house track , i need to add a Reversed crash and a crash or some reversed sounds on every 4th pattern to make a blind transmission between song parts ///standard etc \\\ . Is it possible in the next version of renoise to see an option that allows me to save these patterns as  Templates for a fast recall ? like in one click and i can bring them in any other project without building a syncing the samples again and again ...etc 

Is it possible to see a future option that will allow users to save some mixer settings as a template , or a song template or something [ like in ableton ] [ in Reaper anything can be saved for fast recalling in other projects "PS: The use LUA too , so i think it is possible to make it real in Renoise ]
R%201.png?etag=6818A47E1F03CF2F747265CAE
Thank you ))
 

 



#2 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 19:31

Hello my dear friends.
I have a question for Renoise programmers and developers . Is there any further ideas to add an option like Save pattern as a template \ save mixer settings as a template \ or as a fast dial variant . It will be so useful for saving some time while working on transitions and stuff like that in renoise 
Example : When i work on a House \ Deep house track , i need to add a Reversed crash and a crash or some reversed sounds on every 4th pattern to make a blind transmission between song parts ///standard etc \\\ . Is it possible in the next version of renoise to see an option that allows me to save these patterns as  Templates for a fast recall ? like in one click and i can bring them in any other project without building a syncing the samples again and again ...etc 

Is it possible to see a future option that will allow users to save some mixer settings as a template , or a song template or something [ like in ableton ] [ in Reaper anything can be saved for fast recalling in other projects "PS: The use LUA too , so i think it is possible to make it real in Renoise ]
R%201.png?etag=6818A47E1F03CF2F747265CAE
Thank you ))
 

 

Hi, I'm not sure if you want this ... But Renoise allows you to save a complete song template. Steps:

  1. Create a song as a template, with patterns, order, even instruments if you want, phrases, etc
  2. Menu: File / Save As Template Song
  3. Close Renoise
  4. Start Renoise again. Renoise starts the saved template automatically.

You can delete the template and return to the default template, which only includes 1 pattern and 8 tracks.

 

Does that serves?

 

I think it is not possible to save a pattern, or a particular order of tracks or mixer independently as a template. Phrases yes, chain effects yes...

 

I think that importing a "pattern-track" may be possible for example, using the matrix editor. Something like: in matrix editor right clic mouse, pattern-track / Import pattern-track (of other song). You could select any pattern-track, but a preview of the content should appear. I see it very complicated.

 

But I think it is not possible import a "pattern" or a "track". A "pattern" depends on a certain number of tracks. A "track" depends on a given sequence number. The import should match your song's settings (number of pattern sequencer, number of tracks).

 

...

 

With a purpose built tool, it is possible to create specific, highly and detailed templates (patters, tracks, even specific chain effects...).


Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 31 August 2017 - 19:50.

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#3 Medievil-Music

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:45

Hi, I'm not sure if you want this ... But Renoise allows you to save a complete song template. Steps:

  1. Create a song as a template, with patterns, order, even instruments if you want, phrases, etc
  2. Menu: File / Save As Template Song
  3. Close Renoise
  4. Start Renoise again. Renoise starts the saved template automatically.

You can delete the template and return to the default template, which only includes 1 pattern and 8 tracks.

 

Does that serves?

 

I think it is not possible to save a pattern, or a particular order of tracks or mixer independently as a template. Phrases yes, chain effects yes...

 

I think that importing a "pattern-track" may be possible for example, using the matrix editor. Something like: in matrix editor right clic mouse, pattern-track / Import pattern-track (of other song). You could select any pattern-track, but a preview of the content should appear. I see it very complicated.

 

But I think it is not possible import a "pattern" or a "track". A "pattern" depends on a certain number of tracks. A "track" depends on a given sequence number. The import should match your song's settings (number of pattern sequencer, number of tracks).

 

...

 

With a purpose built tool, it is possible to create specific, highly and detailed templates (patters, tracks, even specific chain effects...).

Hello !
I was asking about , is it possible to see these options in the future . i mean in the next versions of Renoise. A Pattern can be saved as selection " Like in ableton = clips can be saved with their instruments and midi settings" i think that it will be possible to select some patterns in Renoise and save them as a Fast call clips or a clip track.
In other daws these options are available about 2 or 3 years ago, im just wondering, why Renoise didnt add these options yet to his arsenal.
Thank you 



#4 danoise

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:30

A single pattern of a song would pretty much be the entire song (instruments, tracks, effects) - only without the other patterns.

So it would be quite a large chunk that got saved to disk.

 

Wouldn't it be more interesting/useful to have more "atomic" detail, such as a single track, or pattern-track? 

 

In case of a pattern-track, if you are using just a single instrument then you can "pack" it into the instrument itself using the PhraseMate tool. 

I've successfully converted your demo-song to phrases using this technique - each phrase equaling a single pattern-track, with duplicates removed. 

Essentially the entire song is then contained in the instrument itself...

 

PS: I found the link, you can download it here:

https://www.dropbox....ied).xrns?raw=1


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#5 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:49

A single pattern of a song would pretty much be the entire song (instruments, tracks, effects) - only without the other patterns.

...

 

That is why I have emphasized the "pattern-track". Pattern, track, and pattern-track are 3 distinct things. Strictly, you can save a single pattern as a song (and the song includes the rest of elements, like the instruments (samples), phrases and others.) I think the problem here is to import specific data from other songs. Steps:

  1. Create a new song "A".
  2. Compose new music in this song "A".
  3. Drink coffee!
  4. Time later... ok! I want to import a piece of another song "B" into my song "A". Would it be possible? What are the limits? The elements would be these 4 (at least): "entire track", "entire pattern", "a specific pattern-track", "a chain effect for track", all of the other song "B". A chain effect is already possible with presets.

The clearest case is when a composer wants to make an album of several songs and that the songs "sound the same". The subject of the mixer, it would depend on the track, right? In a preset is included the pre process (Vol, Pan, Dly, Width and route)?

 

Then, in the case of the track, it would be necessary to add more sequence patterns, if the target song does not have enough (modify the song).

Then, in the case of the pattern, it would be necessary to add more tracks, if the target song does not have enough  (modify the song).

Then, in the case of the pattern-track, It would only be necessary to import the data written in the pattern editor, notes, volume, panning... (does not modify the song, more tracks or more patterns) 

 

In any case, it would be necessary to preview the items to be imported. Importing specific data from another song would be great. For example:

  1. Pattern editor, select a track: right clic of mouse -> Import A Track Of Other Song... (a floating window appear for select other song and preview and select the track for import)
  2. Pattern editor, select a pattern: right clic of mouse -> Import A Pattern Of Other Song... (a floating window appear for select other song and preview and select the pattern for import)
  3. Matrix editor, select a pattern-track: right clic of mouse -> Import A Pattern-Track Of Other Song... (a floating window appear for select other song and preview and select the pattern-track for import)
Something like that? How to preview what you want to import?
 
Even the window could include a selector of consecutive elements, to import down or to the right, with overwriting or added function.
 
I also miss import options integrated in Renoise....

...

 

Should not this topic be on the Ideas & Suggestions Forum?


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#6 Medievil-Music

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:40

A single pattern of a song would pretty much be the entire song (instruments, tracks, effects) - only without the other patterns.

So it would be quite a large chunk that got saved to disk.

 

Wouldn't it be more interesting/useful to have more "atomic" detail, such as a single track, or pattern-track? 

 

In case of a pattern-track, if you are using just a single instrument then you can "pack" it into the instrument itself using the PhraseMate tool. 

I've successfully converted your demo-song to phrases using this technique - each phrase equaling a single pattern-track, with duplicates removed. 

Essentially the entire song is then contained in the instrument itself...

 

PS: I found the link, you can download it here:

https://www.dropbox....ied).xrns?raw=1

This is a fantastic alternative solution ! I should redefragmentize my mind to fit the Renoise way of thinking . the problem is , in other daws there is almost a plenty similar ways to do the same things " Maybe they simulate from each other's daws some ideas \ or transform them " . But , in renoise , it needed to be done by Renoise way ! Thanks for the suggestion ! I think the Phrase thing will solve the problem and save a lot of time ! 

Now i can save some patterns with some ready phrases " Like transmission stuff and some standard breaks " 
It didnt came to my mind ! damn ..the @phrases@ thing !....



#7 Medievil-Music

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:49

That is why I have emphasized the "pattern-track". Pattern, track, and pattern-track are 3 distinct things. Strictly, you can save a single pattern as a song (and the song includes the rest of elements, like the instruments (samples), phrases and others.) I think the problem here is to import specific data from other songs. Steps:

  1. Create a new song "A".
  2. Compose new music in this song "A".
  3. Drink coffee!
  4. Time later... ok! I want to import a piece of another song "B" into my song "A". Would it be possible? What are the limits? The elements would be these 4 (at least): "entire track", "entire pattern", "a specific pattern-track", "a chain effect for track", all of the other song "B". A chain effect is already possible with presets.

The clearest case is when a composer wants to make an album of several songs and that the songs "sound the same". The subject of the mixer, it would depend on the track, right? In a preset is included the pre process (Vol, Pan, Dly, Width and route)?

 

Then, in the case of the track, it would be necessary to add more sequence patterns, if the target song does not have enough (modify the song).

Then, in the case of the pattern, it would be necessary to add more tracks, if the target song does not have enough  (modify the song).

Then, in the case of the pattern-track, It would only be necessary to import the data written in the pattern editor, notes, volume, panning... (does not modify the song, more tracks or more patterns) 

 

In any case, it would be necessary to preview the items to be imported. Importing specific data from another song would be great. For example:

  1. Pattern editor, select a track: right clic of mouse -> Import A Track Of Other Song... (a floating window appear for select other song and preview and select the track for import)
  2. Pattern editor, select a pattern: right clic of mouse -> Import A Pattern Of Other Song... (a floating window appear for select other song and preview and select the pattern for import)
  3. Matrix editor, select a pattern-track: right clic of mouse -> Import A Pattern-Track Of Other Song... (a floating window appear for select other song and preview and select the pattern-track for import)
Something like that? How to preview what you want to import?
 
Even the window could include a selector of consecutive elements, to import down or to the right, with overwriting or added function.
 
I also miss import options integrated in Renoise....

...

 

Should not this topic be on the Ideas & Suggestions Forum?


This is exactly what i was talking about ! Yea ! But , unfortunately , these options are not applied to the current renoise version which is 3.x.x 
 There is a several solutions to preview what you need to import :
1-Create a " Cloud processor " inside renoise , that will be able to " temporary " load plugins and samples for the quick preview process "It does exist in ableton when previewing the saved clips and templates [ Plugins loaded in background and midi notes are played when selecting the clip that you want to bring from one song to another " 
2-For Sample based patterns \ they can be previewed as any standard sample in the renoise browser " The same process can be used " 
Thats all ^_^

PS: The same " Cloud processor " thing can be found in other daws like FL Studio " They use it to load plugins as a stand alone thing without linking it to the daw on the same processing thread. 

 



#8 danoise

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:57

@Medievil-Music: cool that you find this trick/tool useful! But there are still cases where the phrases approach won't do the job. For example, you will loose automation data, since track devices can't be included.

To be fair, it is possible to automate (instrument) effect devices from within phrases - it just requires a different approach. Which I think makes sense (think of internal phrase automation vs. external "song/track" automation).

 

But luckily, the technique (and the tool I wrote) does indeed seem to fit very well with your way of working. I guess you're already in tune with the "renoise way" of thinking  :lol:


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#9 Medievil-Music

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 13:07

@Medievil-Music: cool that you find this trick/tool useful! But there are still cases where the phrases approach won't do the job. For example, you will loose automation data, since track devices can't be included.

To be fair, it is possible to automate (instrument) effect devices from within phrases - it just requires a different approach. Which I think makes sense (think of internal phrase automation vs. external "song/track" automation).

 

But luckily, the technique (and the tool I wrote) does indeed seem to fit very well with your way of working. I guess you're already in tune with the "renoise way" of thinking  :lol:

I checked the song out ! It looks more compacted and the phrases ! Damn ! thats a gr8 job ! 
I think it will be a huge reconstruction in my renoise techniques )
Thank you !


 



#10 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 14:32

Good trick, save the entire composition of a song in a single instrument using phrases. I had never focused on it like that! 

 

Part of a tool I have built imports the selected pattern-track into the selected phrase of the selected instrument. This same tool could have a selector to be able to save up to the consecutive 126 pattern sequence in 126 phrases inside a instrument (126 pattern-tracks inside a track), 126 is the limit of phrases per instrument. Then import those phrases by reverting the operation to the new song, That is, a whole track with the column notes and the 8 effect columns per track. It seems that importing a track is more reasonable than importing a pattern.

 

Then, it is possible to save an instrument without samples with 126 phrases representing a track of 126 pattern-tracks. In a file that really takes up very little. Thus, you can import the instrument without modifying anything of the song, and preview it in some way.

 

Anyway, even if there is this trick, it would be nice if the next update version will consider the specific data import options of other songs. It would be very useful.


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