Jump to content


Photo

Is there a way yet to hear a note being entered *and* what's on th


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Kizzume

Kizzume

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 958 posts

Posted 03 September 2017 - 01:18

In the newest version, when in edit mode, is there finally a way to hear the note being entered *and* what's on the current row (like when you hit enter) at the same time?  If not, is it something you could consider adding to the program? 

 

Imagine being a vocalist and going to a studio where you're being paid to do vocal harmonies, but the producer tells you "Ok, the only catch here is that you can either hear the song, or you can record your vocals, but you can't hear the song *and* record your vocals at the same time.  But there's good news!  You can hear your vocals and the song at the same time after you've recorded your vocals.  How cool is that?"

 

Now I understand that my example isn't that great because you *can* enter notes live, but then you end up spending a lot of time correcting timing errors because tracker programs are generally not a very good interface for live entry.  Being able to hear what's on the current row while entering a note while in edit mode would speed up the music-making process by a tenfold.  I could have finished songs in less than an hour.

 

Sorry for bothering you with this again, and you may already have added this and I just don't know where the option is.

 

Thanks.


  • Djeroek, ffx, joule and 1 other like this

#2 sokoban

sokoban

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 95 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:59

I'm not sure I answer your question.

But there is an interesting option called "autoseek" in the sampler tab.

Help from the user guide:

 

During song playback, a phrase is normally only heard once it has been triggered by reaching its position in the pattern. Enabling Autoseek allows the phrase to be heard at any point during song playback without the need for triggering.

 

So if your music is already recorded and converted to a long wave file placed on the first step of the first pattern, your singer can then record only the intended parts, beginning on the pattern you want...

To be honest, I have never tried it, but perhaps it can help?

 

 


Sokoban - Ghisloban - GhisMart

https://soundcloud.com/ghismart


#3 Kizzume

Kizzume

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 958 posts

Posted 03 September 2017 - 23:22

I appreciate that.  Unfortunately, that isn't the issue... this has to do with note entry....

 

This video explains this a lot better than my text explanation...

 

Start at about 1:26...

 


  • Djeroek, ffx, Meef Chaloin and 1 other like this

#4 Land of Bits

Land of Bits

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 36 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami, FL
  • Interests:Renoise, ambient glitch texture techno breaks and bass music :)

Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:21

ok ..thats weird


Edited by Land of Bits, 04 September 2017 - 02:26.


#5 gentleclockdivider

gentleclockdivider

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2495 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:something like a sea or a river...just moving
  • Interests:slacking

Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:28

I appreciate that.  Unfortunately, that isn't the issue... this has to do with note entry....

 

This video explains this a lot better than my text explanation...

 

Start at about 1:26...

 

Press enter   advances the sequencer one step and plays each line .

 

Or just enter the notes when the sequence is playing 

 

EDit ...I see you already knew that 


Edited by gentleclockdivider, 04 September 2017 - 11:31.

THERE IS NO RELIGION SUPERIOR TO THE TRUTH


THERE IS NO TRUTH SUPERIOR TO THE ONE I CHOOSE

C'EST MIEUX D'ETRE BELLE ET REBELLE


QUE MOCHE ET REMOCHE



RUBIO RABIA

 


#6 ashy!mpala

ashy!mpala

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1228 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iran
  • Interests:Sequencing vertically

Posted 04 September 2017 - 23:01

This HAS to be implemented. Very useful in many ways. A notes in track/group/pattern option would be also great.

Ashkān Asgary, aka ashy!mpala (which is ashyimpala)
soundcloud | TiS
 


#7 Kizzume

Kizzume

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 958 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:09

I'm glad people finally know what I'm asking for.  I apologize for the way I've asked about it (more like demanding in a fit of rage) in the past.  I'm on meds (olanzapine) now and don't get all bi-polar about it anymore.  I also live on my own, on disability income, in a really inexpensive apartment in a little town named Shamokin in Pennsylvania.  My life is actually going really well, for the very first time in my life... at 44 years old.  I have peace in my life now.

 

All it would take is a "play notes while scrolling" option that makes it so what you hear when you hit the enter key in edit mode is there *any* time the song is being scrolled through, either with the cursor keys or when notes are being entered, in edit mode.  If there's no room to put this kind of option as a checkmark in the regular part of the interface, it could be in a pulldown menu, but it would make things so incredibly easier for those who write by ear.

 

I could pump out several songs a day if this were implemented.  I miss those times, that was back in Amiga days.

 

Thanks so much for considering this.  Hugs, seriously, hugs.



#8 Raul (ulneiz)

Raul (ulneiz)

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:46

@Kizzume. Have you considered using live recording in a natural way? You can enter the notes while you are moving, with the play activated. Renoise will enter the speed (volume) parameter and the delay. I suppose you want to introduce the clean notes. In this case, I use "cleaning" tools later.

 

Returning to live recording. There is a trick I practice that can serve you well. Activate live recording (edit mode on, follow position on and play on). Ok, If your song goes too fast, make the song run twice as slow by modifying LPB value, just in the middle (If you have a value of 4, use 2). Then you can easily hear the complexity of the notes already written to record live. If you learn this trick, you will go very fast.

 

I sometimes do not even use this trick. Live recording, and if the delay parameters bother me, I clean them with a tool.

 

I am aware that it is not exactly what you ask for. But I realized that some users are not really sure how to use live recording. Also use a MIDI keyboard for this task.

 

I just want to comment on the trick, in case it serves you. Curiously, in the video the user complains of having to waste time editing things. With a tool made on purpose does not lose even 2 seconds. On the other hand, you can also use the advanced operations panel. For example, with a single click, you can delete all the delay parameters. But you must configure it.

 

Regarding your suggestion, it would be great to be able to reproduce all the note columns of a track, in the line where you enter a new note. This mode would be very useful. It could even work in two ways: just play the selected track or play the entire line (all tracks).

 

Unfortunately I've been disappointed in time. Many good suggestions or ideas in forums are ignored again and again, and end up lost in forums. It's a shame!

 

No one seems to be taking notes of good suggestions. And there are many suggestions. The forums are full...


:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler

#9 Raul (ulneiz)

Raul (ulneiz)

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:52

By the way, I believe that what you ask is possible to build exactly with a tool. But back to the same. We want certain things to be under the hood of Renoise, not having patches of tools.


  • Kizzume and pat like this

:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler

#10 Kizzume

Kizzume

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 958 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 20:22

The problem with that is that I get ideas for what notes to play as I hear the chords, and I usually can't play it on the keyboard at the speed in which the song plays (which I know I can adjust the speed, but that doesn't help), and I never enter it at a consistent speed, and sometimes I don't even know what notes I'll play until I tinker with it in conjunction with the chords that are there, and if the note I enter isn't right, I simply hit the up arrow and try another note, and try another note, and try another note until I get it right.  That's the whole beauty of entering it in edit mode.  That is precisely how I used to be able to make such complex music on the Amiga and pump out a couple songs in an hour.  It's all because I was able to use the up arrow and try a different note, and try another note, and try another note again, and always be able to hear how the note sounds with what's already in the song.

 

If it's all about entering notes live, there are much better programs to use than a tracker program, which I've used plenty of: ProTools, Logic Pro X, Cakewalk, Reaper, I've used all the good linear-based programs which are far superior for entering notes live.  A tracker program is, quite frankly, the worst interface for entering notes live, hands down.  It's an afterthought, it's not a primary function of a tracker program. Anyone who has followed my music knows that when I'm forced to enter notes live, the complexity of my music goes in the toilet.  Sure, I can make songs, but they're the type of complexity that you'd hear a live group play, not the crazy stuff that can be done in a tracker program.

 

A tracker program's bread and butter is its edit mode.  Hearing the notes that are on the current line while entering a note used to be a basic function of a tracker program, that is, until around 2001 when techno became the definition of electronic music.  Before then, if someone said they make electronic music, it wasn't always assumed to be EDM, which now it is.  People have been able to hear the notes that are on the current line while entering a note on a lot of the old tracker programs made before 2002, but for some reason the Renoise team doesn't think it should be important.  They'd rather keep adding options that make it easier to write techno, which never needs to be musically complex, techno music can virtually always be planned out long beforehand (because generally musically it's as simple as most pop music), it's all about complex effects, it's all about the production itself, production in which you can't even listen to reasonably in edit mode in the first place, you must hit play to hear that kind of production.

 

It makes me wonder whether I should get an old Amiga again and dig out my old keyboard modules again. :(



#11 Kizzume

Kizzume

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 958 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 21:18

A good compromise might be to have an option (I imagine set somewhere in keyboard shortcuts) so when I hit the enter key, it is affected by the editstep value.  That would at least let me keep trying notes over and over again and quickly hearing what's on the current line before I do if I have the editstep value set for anything other than 1.



#12 MattD

MattD

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 September 2017 - 22:19

I think there are a few intersecting problems:

  • keyboard repeat rate is annoying when step length is 0
  • playing the current line always advances by 1

Potential workarounds:

  • disable follow player position, bind a single key to play from cursor, and test each note quickly

Personally, I tend to use short patterns and I keep step length at 0 most of the time. It'd be cool to have a key that plays from cursor when held and returns to original position when released. It'd also be cool if you could play from current line as long as you hold a note key and return to the starting point on release.


Edited by MattD, 06 September 2017 - 22:19.

KernUo9.png


#13 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1466 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:46

By the way, I believe that what you ask is possible to build exactly with a tool.

 
No, it's not really possible to script this.

#14 Raul (ulneiz)

Raul (ulneiz)

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:43

 
No, it's not really possible to script this.

 

Hi! I'm not sure, maybe not exactly, but something similar maybe is possible (I am in the comment #1, sound the line you are editing)...
 
Enter a note in a line (the note does not sound and the line does not sound, ok), return to that line again if renoise jumpt the line and play the line with an adjustable timer (the entire line will sound, with the new note inserted, all in one fast action). I think that it is possible to build it into a single function. It may not be a very elegant solution for a tool, but it may be useful. The problem is that using a tool for this purpose is a little inefficient. It should be something implemented under the hood.
 
Anyway, I remember that FFX also suggested a long time ago a matter related to reproduce the line. This could be something serious that, honestly, Taktik could implement without complaining. It is an editing mode that facilitates listening, and is an advantage when it comes to tinting notes.
 
Another issue is the detection of notes already written, which prevents jumping in empty lines (matter that I have already tried extensively and successfully in a tool). This could also be implemented as an option. On the other hand, you might even have another option that silences the remaining tracks. It would only sound the track where you are editing.
 
I'm just commenting that all this I think it's possible to build it into a small tool, with two or three options for more accurate listening or customizable. It might even work with MIDI Input.
 
@Danoise, I'm surprised you do not comment anything on this topic. Personally I see it very interesting :D. Who is the one who collects the really interesting suggestions to improve Renoise?

:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler

#15 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1466 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:06

+1 to the OP. It would even make sense being able to edit note data silently.

 

Like three edit modes easily accessible in some menu:

1) Audition what is entered

2) Don't audition anything - edit silently.

3) Audition the full line where a note was entered

possibly 4) Audition the full line where anything was edited - triggering delayed notes correctly and all that (for example, tweaking dubbing/phasing or or other micro-adjustments on the fly).

 

@Raul,

It doesn't seem practically manageable..

1) At first i thought you have to :panic() as soon as a note has been entered. Otherwise you will have the natively triggered note ringing while you trigger your own audition routine. If this can be done fast enough not to cause any sound, then maybe. (The only thing it could somewhat 'disturb' would be steppers in the instrument, I think)

2) You will likely have to run everything thru OSC, and not native playback. Otherwise stuck notes.. (?)

 

EDIT:

OK. Let's say you run everything on the line thru OSC, except the note that was entered. Now we're probably close to something that's practically working :) The main issues here might be 1) Not sample accurate. The entered note will be auditioned slightly before the rest of the line (?), 2) You'll have to tediously handle all kind of edits (e g, block pasting), potentially causing even more delay (due to using timers for fail-safe behavior).

 

But.. maybe something could be made that is usable enough. Especially for just laying out secondary voices on a lead.


Edited by joule, 08 September 2017 - 10:07.


#16 Raul (ulneiz)

Raul (ulneiz)

    Guruh Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 09 September 2017 - 10:52

@Joule, I have not written any code yet, I have only based on thoughts given my theoretical knowledge. It is also true that I was surprised by some functions, which at first I thought were slow, but well made work well. So you would have to do trial and error with the code to see if it works fast enough.


:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler

#17 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1466 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:37

I've already tried it and it's not practical enough. I've confirmed that the implementation will become ugly and laggy enough to not even being considered, even if it's just a hack.. Also, it's not trivial to make an optimized tool out of it, which would be much needed.