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Getting Stereo Depth (Away from Audience) in Renoise

depth multitap delay stereo depth space illusion of space

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#1 brandflake11

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 23:01

Hello everyone,

 

I've been using Renoise to write and create mixes and have been struggling with creating the illusion of depth away from the listener, towards the speakers, out of my mixes. Using the theory of the way early reflections convey the size of space, I've been spending time putting my instruments through multitap delays that tap at different amounts and in different stereo placement with ms of 10-100 to help create size and depth. Recently, I've been worried that maybe the tool itself has a hard time with conveying depth though, as I've recently exported a small 10 second unprocessed clip from Renoise and tried processing it the same way in Logic, and miraculously there is a lot more depth conveyed using the same theory to convey it. Has anyone had similar results with Renoise? I'm wondering if it is Renoise or the plugins in Renoise that are coded in a way that is simply hard for it to create depth. Are there any great tools anyone else has used? I have tried the cabinet similar and get interesting results from it concerning depth.


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#2 El°HYM

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 21:32

use mpReverb & crank dat #boombox preset up da hill...at least thats what me does  :panic:  :drummer:  :yeah:



#3 brandflake11

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 22:32

After making this post I looked at some of the user songs the site offers and found some that were using the standard reverb module and turning down the dry signal to achieve depth. This works pretty well, but I am concerned that the engine itself makes depth sound flat and was wondering if anyone else had any of these worries. I will definitely try using mpreverb in a way that creates depth.
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#4 El°HYM

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 13:19

After making this post I looked at some of the user songs the site offers and found some that were using the standard reverb module and turning down the dry signal to achieve depth. This works pretty well, but I am concerned that the engine itself makes depth sound flat and was wondering if anyone else had any of these worries. I will definitely try using mpreverb in a way that creates depth.

 

Maybe I am not exactly the right one, to answer your Q properly...

 

...Me usually puts a Cabinet on all tracks plus a Distortion & LoFi,

then also the #boombox reverb on a bus to glue everything together;

finally after lotz of tweaking and this & that; i#ll shoot that into another

LoFi on the Master - Bus followed by a Maximizer to crank everything uP.



#5 OopsIFly

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 20:40

Easiest way to get some realistic depth effects is using convolvers with the right impulse responses. is a bit more demanding on the cpu than the normal reverbs, but yeh, if the impulse was properly recorded from the back of the store, everything you put through it will sound like its coming from there. You cannot tune the spatial information in it very flexible, but none the less it will be the most effective way to make it sound real.

 

Other than that the theory has a bit more to it than just delays. It is all about psychological cues, frequencies and stereo width make differences also, and even more how sounds apply these mechanisms relative to each other and the whole color of the mix. For example filtering and EQs make it much more effective, like you can muffle or color dark the (properly delayed) reverb a bit and make an additional 4k notch, while giving the guitar a 4k peak, and it should sound like the guitar is in front while its reverb comes from the back.

 

Could be that other reverbs in pro daws are more smooth and spatial than the rather plain and synthetic renoise reverb&mpreverb devices, making it easier to create convincing depth with them. And then compare the cpu usage.....


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#6 brandflake11

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 23:20

Maybe I am not exactly the right one, to answer your Q properly...

 

...Me usually puts a Cabinet on all tracks plus a Distortion & LoFi,

then also the #boombox reverb on a bus to glue everything together;

finally after lotz of tweaking and this & that; i#ll shoot that into another

LoFi on the Master - Bus followed by a Maximizer to crank everything uP.

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely experiment with this. What is the #boombox reverb that you are referring to?

 

 

Easiest way to get some realistic depth effects is using convolvers with the right impulse responses. is a bit more demanding on the cpu than the normal reverbs, but yeh, if the impulse was properly recorded from the back of the store, everything you put through it will sound like its coming from there. You cannot tune the spatial information in it very flexible, but none the less it will be the most effective way to make it sound real.

 

Other than that the theory has a bit more to it than just delays. It is all about psychological cues, frequencies and stereo width make differences also, and even more how sounds apply these mechanisms relative to each other and the whole color of the mix. For example filtering and EQs make it much more effective, like you can muffle or color dark the (properly delayed) reverb a bit and make an additional 4k notch, while giving the guitar a 4k peak, and it should sound like the guitar is in front while its reverb comes from the back.

 

Could be that other reverbs in pro daws are more smooth and spatial than the rather plain and synthetic renoise reverb&mpreverb devices, making it easier to create convincing depth with them. And then compare the cpu usage.....

I had no idea that there was a convolution reverb in Renoise! This is crazy! And you're right about the cpu consumption, it uses so less compared to convolution reverb (or a lot of other effects) in Logic! And thanks for the guitar example, I want to experiment with this now. I have also since noticed the multitap plugin echo delays the sound in the same way as the dry signal it gets, so repeating same versions of "in your face sounding" mid to high frequencies isn't going to help with the illusion of depth as well as something like reverb or room simulation would. It's also great to hear some confidence in the engine of Renoise.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: depth, multitap delay, stereo depth, space, illusion of space