Jump to content


Photo

More built-in synthesis

synthesis granular modular routing instruments

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 whitewolfmusic

whitewolfmusic

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 06 October 2017 - 00:22

Hi guys,

 

Renoise is extremely powerful for samples, and it allows to use VST plugins. But in my opinion, it can become much more.

What I would like to see added are

 

- a granular (re-)synthesizer, able to be fed with samples from the sampler section

- a modular synth rack with a nice UI for the routing to expand Renoise's capabilities as a standalone powerhouse

 

It would be much more likely to happen, if the Renoise team could manage to work with this developer to integrate his instruments:

 

http://sound-guru.com/software/mangle/

http://sound-guru.com/software/tangle/

 

Although it is possible to just use his VSTs, imagine the possibilities of a tight integration into Renoise. You could send any sample from the Sampler into the granular synth to be further processed, and then record that back into the sampler section to slice it up. Or maybe even feed a live signal from the modular synth into the granular section. Or send the output from the sampler into the modular rack instead of an oscillator, to further shape the signal. It would be insane in the best possible way.

 

The granular option could be implemented as an effect as well. An example from the VST world would be: http://www.meldaprod...com/MGranularMB

 

I'd also love to have a physical modelling synth for strings and other resonators directly inside Renoise.

 

The reverbs could use a facelift and get more features for more creative reverbs. The new Toraverb 2 from D16 should be the inspiring example here.

 

Again, one could technically make use of the VST, but having something like this implemented directly into Renoise would allow for much more powerful routings, as well as making it an outstanding sounddesign powerhouse on its own, which is important for Linux users, who don't have the easy access to all the VSTs.

 

----------------------

 

Aside from that, it would be amazing to have a time-stretching algorithm implemented, to play samples freely at a different pitch without changing their tempo. It should have a formant correction, too.

This is currently implemented in NI Kontakt, the samplers from Ableton Live and Cubase 9. It can make a real difference for sound design and is a modern feature that would make Renoise and Redux even more attractive.


Edited by whitewolfmusic, 06 October 2017 - 00:32.

  • Achenar, The Otter Years, ghostwerk and 2 others like this

#2 The Otter Years

The Otter Years

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brighton, UK

Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:48

having the mangle/tangle in built would be sweet, but unfortunately that developer has been MIA for a while now. The Tangle is still in beta and hasn't been looked at in ages :/



#3 The Otter Years

The Otter Years

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brighton, UK

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:20

have a look at VCV rack


  • Gavin Graham and whitewolfmusic like this

#4 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6414 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 06 October 2017 - 13:58

Re: sound-guru plugs: yes, they look very cool and fun to use. I love to play with 'Samplr' (iOS), which is based around a similar idea. 

 

I'm surprised you didn't mention wavetable synthesis. Not exactly a new thing, but something I think could integrate very well with FX commands?


  • Djeroek, Achenar, ghostwerk and 3 others like this

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#5 whitewolfmusic

whitewolfmusic

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 06 October 2017 - 15:46

I'm surprised you didn't mention wavetable synthesis. Not exactly a new thing, but something I think could integrate very well with FX commands?

 

Foolish of me to forget this. Would be definitely nice to have as well, but personal preference wise, I'm not a huge fan of wavetable sound, so it would have less priority to me than the other methods. :)



#6 whitewolfmusic

whitewolfmusic

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 06 October 2017 - 15:55

having the mangle/tangle in built would be sweet, but unfortunately that developer has been MIA for a while now. The Tangle is still in beta and hasn't been looked at in ages :/

 

It doesn't have to be directly these two. Of course the instruments / effects could be developed in-house as well, but given the amount of time and work and the current lack of active development, that would be unrealistic.

If there would be an existing codebase that could be implemented though, it would be possible and realistic to achieve.

 

I absolutely love Renoise and would like to reduce the amount of plugins in my workflow. Ideally, I'd love to have more powerful sound generation and shaping tools built in, so I could do all the work inside of Renoise, only using a decent selection of samples. That would make switching to Linux for my studio machine much more possible as well. Plus: it would make all these projects more portable and self-contained. Which is kinda exactly what makes trackers special. Efficient, self-contained files to represent the music and which can be interpreted live.


  • The Otter Years and Medievil-Music like this

#7 Psynapsex

Psynapsex

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Synthesis, Electronics, & Day Trading (I'm a noob)

    I'm a big fan of Venetian Snares, Psykovsky, Richard Devine, and The Advent.

    I've been using Reaktor 5 since 2008, and love the thought of a real analog modular synth.

Posted 07 October 2017 - 10:16

Additive resynthesis should be the goal imho

#8 Medievil-Music

Medievil-Music

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Russia

Posted 07 October 2017 - 13:02

Hello my friends !
I have a little question about the whole thing : Why do we need an integrated synth while we have Morphsynth and Padsynth instruments << TOOLS >> *?
They are good enough to generate thousands of samples and Renoise can romple them as well.

There is a lot of Renoise tools that can be added on as an extra built-in synth.For me, i use Morphsynth in all of my Soundwave Sculpting instruments .
T/Mangle use a standalone process thread beside the program's thread itself , witch will make Renoise act slower. They will still be like a vst based synths. It can slow down the whole Renoise process thread when integrated. 
Btw, i liked the Tangle module synth ! It is very simple to use.

 



#9 whitewolfmusic

whitewolfmusic

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 07 October 2017 - 18:36

Hello my friends !
I have a little question about the whole thing : Why do we need an integrated synth while we have Morphsynth and Padsynth instruments << TOOLS >> *?
They are good enough to generate thousands of samples and Renoise can romple them as well.

There is a lot of Renoise tools that can be added on as an extra built-in synth.For me, i use Morphsynth in all of my Soundwave Sculpting instruments .
T/Mangle use a standalone process thread beside the program's thread itself , witch will make Renoise act slower. They will still be like a vst based synths. It can slow down the whole Renoise process thread when integrated. 
Btw, i liked the Tangle module synth ! It is very simple to use.

 

 

I'm not a programmer, but I believe that when implemented correctly, the signal path could be "turned off" at will. If there is no processing to be done, a proper integration shouldn't waste any resources. Of course the processing itself will use about as much as the plugin, but I'd say any effect on the DAW when these instrument sections are not in use can be called negligible.

 

The tools we have so far are nice to have, but far from sophisticated enough. I've just tried MorphSynth, and while cool, I find it very hard to "design" sounds with it. It generates a lot of different waveforms, but they're all quite simple. With a modular rack, you have just so much more possibilities of shaping the sound, modulating it from different sources, do parallel processing to it, etc.

 

And granular synthesis is a completely different beast, and vastly useful in combination with a sampler, which Renoise already has at its core.

 

To give you an idea of what I mean, Propellerhead Reason will add a granular synth this month. If you're interested: they're showing what it can do in this stream:

https://youtu.be/fvJmrZRjqOg?t=36m5s



#10 Medievil-Music

Medievil-Music

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Russia

Posted 07 October 2017 - 20:36

 

The tools we have so far are nice to have, but far from sophisticated enough. I've just tried MorphSynth, and while cool, I find it very hard to "design" sounds with it. It generates a lot of different waveforms, but they're all quite simple. With a modular rack, you have just so much more possibilities of shaping the sound, modulating it from different sources, do parallel processing to it, etc.

 

 

Well about Morphsynth , i dont think that it is that quite simple.
Check this out :

 

I think you missed my Soundwave Sculpting tutorials ^_^ 

MorphSynth can even generate the sound of a carrot if you wan dude !
 



#11 whitewolfmusic

whitewolfmusic

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:57

Well about Morphsynth , i dont think that it is that quite simple.
Check this out :

 

I think you missed my Soundwave Sculpting tutorials ^_^ 

MorphSynth can even generate the sound of a carrot if you wan dude !
 

 

Unfortunately I can't see myself using MorphSynth, it just doesn't output what I'm looking for, and to get something even close takes a huge amount of time and effort.

I'm looking for more modern and complex sound. ^^



#12 Psynapsex

Psynapsex

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Synthesis, Electronics, & Day Trading (I'm a noob)

    I'm a big fan of Venetian Snares, Psykovsky, Richard Devine, and The Advent.

    I've been using Reaktor 5 since 2008, and love the thought of a real analog modular synth.

Posted 08 October 2017 - 22:30

That simple Reason bass can be made all day long in Renoise. I'll make some examples if and when I have time, it's not too complicated of a process either.

The ability to scan the sample in real-time is really the most realistic method we can look forward to. There was a tool that made it possible to modulate loop start and loop end, but not the initial start, so close yet so far lol
  • Land of Bits likes this

#13 Psynapsex

Psynapsex

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Synthesis, Electronics, & Day Trading (I'm a noob)

    I'm a big fan of Venetian Snares, Psykovsky, Richard Devine, and The Advent.

    I've been using Reaktor 5 since 2008, and love the thought of a real analog modular synth.

Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:13

Hope this might inspire whitewolfmusic a bit.


I been getting some cool granular basses outta Reaktor lately.

I don't think I'd have the patience to lean a new DAW to use a sampler, but that's just me.

I've had my eye on Harmor for a while. I feel your pain though

First time using drop box, lemme know if it don't work

https://www.dropbox....mples.xrns?dl=0
  • whitewolfmusic and Land of Bits like this

#14 Land of Bits

Land of Bits

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami, FL
  • Interests:Renoise, ambient glitch texture techno breaks and bass music :)

Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:28

Unfortunately I can't see myself using MorphSynth, it just doesn't output what I'm looking for, and to get something even close takes a huge amount of time and effort.

I'm looking for more modern and complex sound. ^^

 hope you like this sound

 

just excuse the intro :(

 


  • Psynapsex likes this

#15 Land of Bits

Land of Bits

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami, FL
  • Interests:Renoise, ambient glitch texture techno breaks and bass music :)

Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:45


I've had my eye on Harmor for a while. I feel your pain though

 

glad you like Harmor..it is my favorite synth of all time...

 

the only thing that i dont like about it inside Renoise.it is that ..

when you try to access the parameters for automation using the *insrtrument automation device..due to the large list of parameters..

that can be a true pain in the ass.....the number 1 killer of workflows :(

 

specially when designing complex sounds......

 

im not saying that its impossible to use ....but a bit tricky....

 

also the resynthesis engine..its a feature ouf of this world.........

 

i made this intro using the resynthesis engine on violin samples.....and string ensembles

 


  • Psynapsex likes this

#16 ghostwerk

ghostwerk

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:08

more native synthesis features in renoise would be very interesting



#17 Psynapsex

Psynapsex

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Synthesis, Electronics, & Day Trading (I'm a noob)

    I'm a big fan of Venetian Snares, Psykovsky, Richard Devine, and The Advent.

    I've been using Reaktor 5 since 2008, and love the thought of a real analog modular synth.

Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:29


There a new knob tool I haven't tried yet but I've heard it solves the issue you dicribed. I been a Reaktor head since 08 imagine how I feel haha. Just recently been visiting Renoise on A regular basis. Catching up with all the news as we speak.

 
the only thing that i dont like about it inside Renoise.it is that ..
when you try to access the parameters for automation using the *insrtrument automation device..due to the large list of parameters..
that can be a true pain in the ass.....the number 1 killer of workflows :(
 
specially when designing complex sounds......
 
im not saying that its impossible to use ....but a bit tricky....
 



#18 whitewolfmusic

whitewolfmusic

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:42

Hope this might inspire whitewolfmusic a bit.


I been getting some cool granular basses outta Reaktor lately.

I don't think I'd have the patience to lean a new DAW to use a sampler, but that's just me.

I've had my eye on Harmor for a while. I feel your pain though

First time using drop box, lemme know if it don't work

https://www.dropbox....mples.xrns?dl=0

 

It actually is very inspiring! I've instantly played around with the sounds you provided. It's impressive what you get out of these simple waveforms. That being said: While it is absolutely a valid sound, it's not what I as an artist want to sound like. It's too electronic / metallic and static.

 

I'm more of an ambient music guy, that's why granular resynthesis is so useful to me. Also, I've been introduced to music production by Propellerhead Reason and came to love the modular approach and patching things together.

That's why I'd like to see something like Tangle in Renoise. The live modulation capabilities of something like this make some nice evolving sounds, which again is useful for what I want to sound like. So, it's more of an artistic choice that I'm not into MorphSynth.


  • Psynapsex likes this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: synthesis, granular, modular, routing, instruments