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Transposed Midi getting sent out from Renoise


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#1 col.h

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 22:05

Hi

 

I am rather confused by what is happening when sending external midi out via my MOTU 128 Express. I press C3 on my midi keyboard and note C-4 is displayed in the Midi in window then Renoise actually shows note C-3 being sent out (see screenie), but what it actually sends is a C-1 !!? Am i missing something completely obvious? Transpose is not set and i cannot see any other setting to make this happen. Tested with other DAWs and other midi gear without issue. Can anyone shed any light?

 

Thanks

 

Col

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Edited by col.h, 13 October 2017 - 22:07.


#2 danoise

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 23:32

Transpose is not set 

 

Can you verify that the global Oct (topmost toolbar) has not been set?

I can't tell from your screenshot, and it will influence the value of the MIDI notes being sent..


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#3 random

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 23:49

Hi
 
Sry my English is not so good and I m also new at Renoise but I try :badteeth:
You can change the Bass Note at Renoise in Keyzones (Shortcut - F4)
 
A general Problem is there are 2 "Standards" Notation and Midi
Notation: Middle C = nearest the middle of any piano
Pianos (and also Sequenzers i know the C1/C3  difference not only in Renoise) have different sizes and i think also different Middle C
Midi: The First General Midi Multimembral Soundmodul was the Roland Sound Canvas SC-55 and I think that is the Holy Gral of Midi-Standard
Note C1 - Notenumber 036 - Kickdrum  (Page 70 in the Roland Manual or in my own Copy at attached Files)
http://cdn.roland.co...df/SC-55_OM.pdf
 
Renoise have a GMKit inside on:
other - Phrases - GMkit - Rock01.xrnz
The Bassdrum have there the "false" Note C-3 but I think the Notnumber 036 is correct because my Roland Pma-5 (with SC-55 inside) play al the Notes Correct, I hear a Drumloop.

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Edited by random, 14 October 2017 - 00:42.


#4 danoise

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 00:17

Yes, instruments can all have various transpose settings.
A lot of possibilities, actually - a sample can have transpose and finetune, modulation can tune it, keyzones too, and finally the instrument as a whole can be transposed too.
And there is no "absolute" standard for how to label (name) notes, only what frequencies the various midi notes correspond to.

BUT - what I was referring to was the global transpose option in Renoise. Look in the topmost toolbar, it's labelled 'Oct'
Setting this will affect MIDI Output, as you play the keyboard.

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#5 random

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 14:48

Your answer confuses me yesterday a little

Hope to find frequencies at Channel 10 for the Drum Sounds

Infos, How create Adlip, Emu FM-Drumsounds on their Soundcarts with Yamaha olp-2  or olp-3 :dribble:
Download the Midi-Specs.pdf from http://https://www.midi.org/
Sadly only Note Numbers or "Triggers" (000-127) but not frequencies are at Channel 10 specific

 

But right all the other Midi-Channels 0-16 work with spec. frequencies  (middle C - 261,6256 Hz)

At Note Number they write:

Each note is assigned a numeric value, which is transmitted with any Note-On/Off message. Middle C has a reference value of 60. This is the middle C of an 88 note piano-style keyboard though it need not be physically located in the center of a keyboard.

 

Yes different C are possibel :)


Edited by random, 14 October 2017 - 15:11.


#6 danoise

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 16:21

Ok. I was referring to your original post, in which you were playing an external MIDI keyboard. 

So, the MIDI keyboard works OK for you now? 

 

The GM Kit instrument that come with Renoise should have been made according to spec. 

For instance, if you grab some MIDI files with drum patterns, these instruments should be able to play them.  

 

Check also this template instrument for reference:

http://forum.renoise...gmkit-template/


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#7 random

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 18:39

Thnx, All works in Renoise fine!

 

it was for me a little tricky to visualize:
Sequenzer 000----127 = Renoise Oct 0-8 (in the topmost toolbar)
Piano         ---088----
Drumpad   -16------- - Load Samples or Midi (BassNote at Keynotes)

i play only with Midi-Drumpads
it is perhaps possible to Rout Oct 0-8 or better +/- 000-127 at a Midi-Controller, transpose for Liveplaying?


Edited by random, 14 October 2017 - 18:41.


#8 danoise

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 19:53

it is perhaps possible to Rout Oct 0-8 or better +/- 000-127 at a Midi-Controller, transpose for Liveplaying?

 

If your controller isn't able to switch octave, then the global octave in Renoise is indeed MIDI mappable. 

The same is not true for instrument transpose, though. Not really sure why - seems like an oversight. 

 

Anyway, for a sample-based instrument you can always add a Instr.Macro device and make one of the macros control the pitch (via modulation > pitch tab in the sampler). 

You just need to make sure that the range that the controller sends, and the "Pitch Range" (small popup menu) in the modulation tab are good matches, then you should be good to go. 

 

 

instr_pitch_macro.gif


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#9 random

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 13:45

 

If your controller isn't able to switch octave, then the global octave in Renoise is indeed MIDI mappable.

 

My Drumpad is an old Roland R-70 Drummachine it and I think the most others on the market have work, only with Banks (one Bank are 16 Notes) not with Transpose  
Renoise Keyzone have a long range (Notes from C-0 to B-9) and with the Transpose option Oct in the topmost toolbar can I use and see all the Notes in the Keyzone with my 16 Notes Drumpad. (Play a 128 Notes Big-Bank)

 

 

The same is not true for instrument transpose, though. Not really sure why - seems like an oversight.

 

To play Arpeggios or simple Scales (Pentatonic) on a Drumpad at the same way as a Bass-Guitar
The Fingers play on both the notes,
Guitar: the Arm move (with Fingers) to the positions
Drumpad: The Controller move (with Arm, 1 Hand, 2 Fingers to knob) to the positions

 

 

 

Anyway, for a sample-based instrument you can always add a Instr.Macro device and make one of the macros control the pitch (via modulation > pitch tab in the sampler). 

You just need to make sure that the range that the controller sends, and the "Pitch Range" (small popup menu) in the modulation tab are good matches, then you should be good to go. 

 

attachicon.gifinstr_pitch_macro.gif

 

Thnx a lot for the detailed Tipp !! thats fantastic (it was a short Night) Realize Renoise is not only a Tracker, Sampler, its a powerful Synthesizer :guitar:


Edited by random, 15 October 2017 - 13:53.


#10 col.h

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 20:06

thanks for the help folks after changing the current note input and recording ocatve to 4 im now seeing the same notes going in an out as i expected. I was only looking at the transpose within the midi output device field. Still a noob using Renoise as you can probably tell..........cheers guys/girls :w00t: