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Chord inversions book recommendations???

chords inversion

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#1 Barrett Wang

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:38

Can anyone recommend good books about keyboard / piano chord inversions?

 

So far the best looking book I can find is 'progressive piano chords' by Peter Gelling ( below ). Does anyone know of a better one?

 

51CN74RhHFL._SX362_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

 


Edited by Barrett Wang, 29 November 2017 - 05:39.


#2 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:31

It really ain't difficult .

When you have your normal triad / seventh chord ..the basic rule is .

root + third +fifth + seventh = no inversion.

When the third  is at root position  = 1st inversion 

fifth root = second inversion 

seventh root =third inversion .

 

simple example , raising the fifth of a major chord  by a whole step , gives you the first inversion of it's relative minor 

And when your lowering the root of a minor chord with a whole step , your playing the second inversion of it's relative major ..Etc

 

You really need a keyboard to have a feel of these inversions , cause they all depend on musle memory .


Edited by gentleclockdivider, 29 November 2017 - 14:47.

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#3 beublo

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:56

you could also play a C major with G-E-C in ascending order for instance… Not sure how one'd call this inversion.

Choosing an order for notes is more a matter of context (where's the melody at this moment? do you want an ascending or descending movement, or none at all? What are the notes of the previous chord? You might want to maintain a "sensible" movement for each voice in a chord progression, each voice has a life of its own) and imagination.

Once you know how to build a chord (usually stacking up thirds, sometimes fourths…), I don't think you really need a book about chords. Modes and scales might be a better insight to craft your chord progressions IMHO.


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#4 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:52

you could also play a C major with G-E-C in ascending order for instance… Not sure how one'd call this inversion.

 

Just a second inversion with open voicing .


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#5 beublo

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:51

That's the word… "open"… Thanks :)

 

I realize now I've always named open voicings by their notes only.


Edited by beublo, 29 November 2017 - 18:53.


#6 Barrett Wang

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 01:54

Thanks for the tips and inversions rules.

 

I was putting together a chords and harmonies composition guide.

I wanted to be thorough and scientific with it but all possible chords from a scale with all possible inversions will amount to hundreds per scale.

Knowing the rules of building inversions then just using them is better. I will leave inversions out of my guide thing.



#7 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 13:24

the thing is , when you start to invert seventh chords , some chords will have the exact same keys ..

It's  importan  to identify the chord name within a given scale , reduces the overlap of naming , especcialy whe modulating outside of the scale .

 

Learn theory , the hardest part is to forgot what you have learned , serious !


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#8 random

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 14:36

the origin of the western harmony theory (and science) lies in astrolgy (12 notes 12 zodiac signs) or mnemonics (there were no books or were expensive) and not so much in listening habits
 

1 god
2 male / female
3 conditions - cardinal (out-going) fixed (expansive) mutable (returning)
4 elements - fire water air earth

7 planets =  3 conditions + 4 elements
12 zodiac = 3 conditions * 4 elements

 

12 is circular recurring
10 however (10 parts of the human body) is hierachically from top to bottom
1-10 from top to bottom and 1-12 around it is a three-dimensional sphere

In my experience, harmony is easiest to understand in conjunction with geometry
Here is a page with good examples

https://roelhollande...music-geometry/

 

another example with donald duck (6:50) pentatonic scale (is inside the 12 tones church scales) and a pentagram/pentagon

 

nice example (humans have pentatonic inside) with bobby mcferrin


Edited by random, 30 November 2017 - 15:45.

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#9 radian

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 15:20

lol


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#10 Barrett Wang

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 21:27

@ random:

 

Interesting article explaining how the 12 notes of the chromatic scale were originally made in ancient greece.

 

https://en.wikipedia...hagorean_tuning

 

Also, maybe you will enjoy these books:

 

wooden-books-elements-of-music-by-jason-

harmonograph-by-anthony-ashton-2319-p.jp

 

And cymatics ( using vibration to create moving geometric patterns ) :

 



#11 joule

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 21:56

I think I have to step in here to bring some sanity to this thread..

 

The fundamentals of music is built upon universal harmonicity. It's not something that was "made" or "invented" in Greece. It might have been discovered or systemized there, but the properties required to create our response to music are universal. The low integer ratios of overtones and scales aren't coincidences, nor defined by the zodiak. :P


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#12 Barrett Wang

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 22:44

The oldest known surviving written record of the structure of overtones and intervals ( dividing up a string ) is from Greece but the structure would have been pleasing to the ear and in use in any culture that enjoyed singing or flutes, didjeridoos, throat singing etc. (every human culture worldwide). Maybe even in non human cultures, birdsong, whalesong?

 

Tonic 1:1

 

The first overtone 2 : 1 ( octave ), the first interval - octave 2 : 1

 

The second overtone 3 : 1 ( fifth above the octave ), the second interval - fifth 3 : 2

 

The third overtone 4 : 1 ( two octaves ), the third interval - fourth 4 : 3

 

The fourth overtone 5 :1 ( two octaves and a major third ), the fourth interval - major third 5 :4

 

The fifth overtone 6 : 1 ( two octaves and a fifth ), the fifth interval - minor third 6 : 5



#13 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 22:48

I think I have to step in here to bring some sanity to this thread..

 

The fundamentals of music is built upon universal harmonicity. It's not something that was "made" or "invented" in Greece. It might have been discovered or systemized there, but the properties required to create our response to music are universal. The low integer ratios of overtones and scales aren't coincidences, nor defined by the zodiak. :P

Thread saved from de-railing .


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#14 random

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 23:16

@Barrett Wang

interesting, looks similar to one of my favorite book

https://frequencyris...gy-wooden-books

I think pythagoras interested especially in the physics of the sounds.
The pentatonic comes as far as I have noticed in all cultures in the world because it exists in nature within our perception (human voice, the sound of the wind)
The oldest known instrument in the world is a bones flute with these 5 notes

ptolemy extended the pentatonic with tetrachords (2 quadrilaterals) primarily as a convenience to take advantage of the number 12 "all-encompassing geometric scheme"

but that does not matter in today's pop music
we mainly listen the last 100 years downgrade or back to the roots of 12 tone to blues to pentatonic to triad music :badteeth:


Edited by random, 30 November 2017 - 23:22.

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#15 Barrett Wang

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 23:51

Pentatonic scales are the nicest sounding to me, or the most peaceful sounding anyway.

All of the scales based around pentatonic. The japanese scales, the chinese scales.

Also the various overtone flutes sound beautiful.

 

here are some chinese and japanese scales:

 

Qing Shang : C Eb F G Bb

 

Qing Yu : C D E F G Bb

 

Quan Ming : C Eb F Ab Bb

 

Sakura : C Db F G Ab

 

Japanese? : C D Eb G Ab

 

Hirajoshi 1 : C E F# G B

 

Hirajoshi 2 : C Db F Gb  Bb

 

Hirajoshi 3 : C D Eb G Ab


Edited by Barrett Wang, 30 November 2017 - 23:57.

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#16 random

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 02:09

like the pentatonic too  :yeah:

 

Here is a mnemotic with ptolemy tetrachords to the circle of quintets:


it is based on the dural ladder. the dural scale is subdivided into 2 so-called tetrachords each stem tone occurs 1 time in the scale.

2 tetrachords (or 2*4 Elements :badteeth: ) are 7 tones  because, for example, C is double (C-D-E-F and G-A-B-C)

 

C D E F G A B  
The structure of the tetrachords is identical: whole-tone-halftone

C D E F / G A B C
These two tetrachords are connected by a whole tone.

next you take the 2nd tetrachord of the scale and form the new durton leader on it GT GT BT (GT) GT GT BT
G A B C / D E F # G
D E F # G / A B C # D
A B C # D / E F # G # A
E F # G # A / B C # D # E
B C # D # E / F # G # A # B
F # G # A # B / C # D # E # F # (F # major consists of the same
Gb From Bb Cb / Db Eb F Gb Tones Like Gb Dur)
Db Eb F Gb / From Bb C Db
From Bb C Db / Eb F G Ab
Eb F G Ab / Bb C D Eb
Bb C D Eb / F G A Bb
F G A Bb / C D E F
C D E F / G A B C (there you are back at the beginning)


Edited by random, 01 December 2017 - 02:28.


#17 random

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 13:33

I think I have to step in here to bring some sanity to this thread..

 

The fundamentals of music is built upon universal harmonicity. It's not something that was "made" or "invented" in Greece. It might have been discovered or systemized there, but the properties required to create our response to music are universal. The low integer ratios of overtones and scales aren't coincidences, nor defined by the zodiak. :P

 

the map is not the territory, nothing is true, these are only tools

 

guitar - nice tool to play because you can transpose notes with the same fingering

keyboard - nice to see the difference between the pitches of the notes (halftone-whole-pitches or black white keys) but sadly not possible to play notes with the same fingering.

circle - in my option the best tool to understand musical theory because the old use the sky and the body to memorized and understandt these things
https://en.wikipedia...i/art_of_memory
and until today the wheel has not been complete reinvented every time

http://museum.sound-...rams/#/overview

http://sound-colour-...hromatic-scales


Edited by random, 01 December 2017 - 14:30.


#18 Barrett Wang

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 03:07

Try this website. Nice and clear explanations

 

http://www.piano-key...ano-chords.html

 

Also, maybe this layout is best. Like the thummer. Cant believe the thummer failed, looked awesome.

 

550px-HarmonicTableMusicNoteLayout.png

 

Thummer:

 


Edited by Barrett Wang, 02 December 2017 - 03:37.


#19 random

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 13:38

thummer looks nic, a little similar to chordion

http://www.olympiano.../apps/chordion/

keyboards need for me to much workspace, dont like it

 

try this for guitar

https://chordbook.com/guitar-chords/

 

back to off topic :D

in the documentation notes and neurons (unfortunately only in french and german) https://www.youtube....h?v=9JEPa4uAuv0

i heard for the first time that the harmonious and disharmonious perception of music is influenced by the culture

https://www.nature.c...les/nature18635

 

In the past was no strict separation between music psychology religion and mathematic (since is young) likely more a hell of trying everything into a scheme

 

kircher1.jpg

on the other hand, in the music literature it is said that the natural tone series can only be transposed to a limited extent without sounding disharmonic
that's why we have well-tempered standart
https://en.wikipedia...empered_Clavier

but why have a octave 12 tones, 7 white and 5 black keys?
easy to notice and sometime to understand with old school stuff 12 zodiac (circle) 7 old plantes (heptagram) and 5 parts of the body (pentagram)

 

random, universal harmony or cultural influence?
 


Edited by random, 02 December 2017 - 14:44.


#20 El°HYM

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 13:51

the origin of the western harmony theory (and science) lies in astrolgy (12 notes 12 zodiac signs) or mnemonics (there were no books or were expensive) and not so much in listening habits
 

1 god
2 male / female
3 conditions - cardinal (out-going) fixed (expansive) mutable (returning)
4 elements - fire water air earth

7 planets =  3 conditions + 4 elements
12 zodiac = 3 conditions * 4 elements

 

12 is circular recurring
10 however (10 parts of the human body) is hierachically from top to bottom
1-10 from top to bottom and 1-12 around it is a three-dimensional sphere

In my experience, harmony is easiest to understand in conjunction with geometry
Here is a page with good examples

https://roelhollande...music-geometry/

 

another example with donald duck (6:50) pentatonic scale (is inside the 12 tones church scales) and a pentagram/pentagon

 

nice example (humans have pentatonic inside) with bobby mcferrin

^This!

& this:

https://roelhollande...ne-Tone-Circle/

Coltrane-circle-shared-by-Miles-Okazaki%



#21 Barrett Wang

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 03:23

o.k...so if your saying people are like pentagons because they have 1 head, 2 arms and 2 legs, then what about monkeys? They have a tail too, does that make them hexagons? Humans have a tailbone, why not hexagon?

 

That stuff is mumbo jumbo


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#22 joule

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:52

https://en.wikipedia...nthropomorphism


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#23 random

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 14:00

barrett wang

do you have my ? seen

thats old paradigm and standards, they changing from time to time
earth is center of the universe, sun is the center of the universe, current science deals with dark matter but can not prove that it exists .. lol
yes its mumbo jumbo, truth exists only in systems created by humans, such as mathetmatic

 

I know that I exist in some form and perceive, the rest I am no longer sure
It is enough for me if something is conclusive in itself, that can be wrong
many roads lead to rome, if your tailbone a ape and hexagon help you understand music theory then why not?

 

know no geometric traditions or musical theory to animals, only to elements (a kind of smallest name)
https://en.wikipedia...assical_element
plato, and plotemy (somewhere in tetrabiblos) expanded (too complicated for me) the qualities

example: serpent - fire (power of death) swiftness (air) undulatory motion (water) habit of life (earth)
a another psychologically view: choleric (fire) phlegmatic (water) sanguine (air) melancholic (earth)

but thats very general, in terms of animals I think joules link summary anthropomorphism are more plausible

not so sanity in mythology - what is with abraxas?  (a snake with a lion head)


Edited by random, 04 December 2017 - 17:41.


#24 random

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 14:12

 

 

http://www.harmonagon.com/



#25 El°HYM

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 20:41

Very good thread & info here!

 

Thank you very much. :drummer:


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