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Bad news for Cakewalk lovers....


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#1 Medievil-Music

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 00:35

"Today we say Thank You to all of our users past and present, for helping make Cakewalk a staple in the world of digital audio for 30 years"

This is how team Cakewalk decided to say Goodbye to their users...
This is a really bad news .. i did not even imagine that this day will come. Torrents are really killing this industry out " as a factor " .
Why is this happening ?
How can we stop this tendency " as users " ?
Linplug, mopis , synapse ....and now Cakewalk... Who is next ??
Who stands behind this software genocide  ?
http://www.cakewalk.com/



#2 sauli

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:08

I'd say it has nothing to do with software piracy. Cakewalk was bought by Gibson years ago and after that the number of relevant products they released is ehm... about one and that is basically Z3TA+ update. Cakewalk has done nothing extraordinary in recent years and usually for bigger companies it's not enough that their subsidiary is just supporting itself. They need profits to justify their investment and if there are not profits to be seen it's easier to just axe the subsidiary and focus on things that bring money.


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#3 realist

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:12

Gibson also pretended to do a native Mac version for years. Then it turned out it was fake, a wine emulation! I think that also gave cakewalk a bad reputation. Their software was outdated technically for some years in many ways. It surely had some unique features, but that is not enough, if you want to stay competitive nowadays. In the end it was bad reputation + super bad management + outdated Software.
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#4 Medievil-Music

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:58

I'd say it has nothing to do with software piracy. Cakewalk was bought by Gibson years ago and after that the number of relevant products they released is ehm... about one and that is basically Z3TA+ update. Cakewalk has done nothing extraordinary in recent years and usually for bigger companies it's not enough that their subsidiary is just supporting itself. They need profits to justify their investment and if there are not profits to be seen it's easier to just axe the subsidiary and focus on things that bring money.

Can you offer me your works for free for 5 years in advance ? and then, lets judge the piracy destructive effect on anything's development .....

Many companies have to eventually sell their major share in some kind of invests, if these investments do not justify the main financial investments in their development and distribution.
The bulk of commentators think like consumers, nothing more. And I'm offering you the point of view of a businessman, an entrepreneur:
In any project, when expenses increase income at times, the project is considered a failure. It is even that simple and trivial.
On the torrent servers, thousands of seeders are gathered on each program from Cakewalk. But in fact, no one buys the product ..
I once used to install pirated programs in 2008, because I had no opportunity to legally acquire them. "We are prohibited from using VISA and MasterCard systems in Syria because of sanctions since 2006". A long time ago i only buy programs, plugins .... etc. Sometimes I install pirated software only for testing. And then I buy them "I love to see my name on the product."
Maybe many of you are satisfied with this philosophy, download what you do not have the right to exploit, but remember, to make money for something, people need to get payed for their services. In these companies people are working, the same as we are. They have families, children, and maybe they need a cure from illness or something else. They, naturally, will think about money when someone stops paying them...
Think wider ..... 


#5 realist

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:11

Buying a daw is a difficult decision, since you will often decide a specific microcosmos, too, and then have to trust that company. It is quite a bit different to other software, e.g. Plugins. Piracy is not a problem if you constantly add new features and improve existing ones. But the most important is to be reliable and open minded for your customers (a.k.a. listen to paying customers). Then there is pretty much no reasons left for people not to buy the software. But that requires a lot of stamina, self reflection and constant discipline - which totally contradicts to modern business models, like Gibsons.

Edited by ffx, 10 December 2017 - 11:12.

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#6 radian

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 17:04

 

Can you offer me your works for free for 5 years in advance ? and then, lets judge the piracy destructive effect on anything's development .....

 

Lol get a grip.

 

This is nothing to do with piracy unless you can explain to me how I might download a guitar.
This is 100% to do with Gibson who acquired Cakewalk for some reason being shit out of money. 
https://www.thestree...e-its-debt.html



#7 Medievil-Music

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 01:29

 

This is nothing to do with piracy unless you can explain to me how I might download a guitar.
This is 100% to do with Gibson who acquired Cakewalk for some reason being shit out of money.

"how I might download a guitar." You cant download a (physical) guitar, but you can download a recorded performance that you dont own rights to use. 
F0r sOme rEaSon @_@.... well, smart core i9 dude. I have nothing to say. Especially for you....
 



#8 lettuce

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 02:45

Ableton live 9 - $600

 

Cubase pro 9.5 - $330

 

Avid protools - $590

 

Presonus studio one - $450

 

Bitwig studio V2 - $270

 

At these prices, is it any wonder that people want to download cracked pirated versions?

Not to mention the added price of a high powered laptop or desktop to run the software on.

I understand bitwig's price a bit but I still think its too expensive.

 

Renoise price is really fair...$75, Its a damn good price in this day and age.

 

Sunvox also has a damn good price.

 

If companies show customers respect in terms of pricing, respect becomes mutual and no one uses pirated version.

But then, if landlords want too much rent etc. its difficult for everyone


Edited by Barrett Wang, 11 December 2017 - 02:52.

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#9 realist

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 10:11

..

Edited by guest_ffx, 25 December 2017 - 16:48.

.

#10 joule

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 11:53

I'm also very sceptical that piracy is killing the DAW market.

 

1) Pretty sure that most professionals who are serious about music don't use pirated software to a large extent.

2) If pirated software wasn't available at all, people wouldn't buy ableton/studio one. They would buy/download reaper or ardour.

3) The above statements are false to a very small extent, which is compensated by positive aspects of piracy (e g market entry).

 

Renoise is another thing, though, since it's likely more heavily dependant on us hobbyists and enthusiasts - contrary to expensive daws.


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#11 Medievil-Music

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 15:06

You, my friends , are discussing everything from the point of view of the user / consumer,again, sorting tags and links, comparisons between program prices and so on .....
It seems that we are not having a constructive dialogue in here. unfortunately.
Who forces whom to buy programs that are not in the pocket yet?If you think that it is expensive % do-not-buy-it % , its even that simple .. I used to say that we buy mainly the sound libraries, not the program itself. In Ableton, for example, a very huge library of loops" i own ableton because it came with my 1st keyrig controller, then with my launchpad, and i know what kind of loops are they. Its all about EDM " . In Reason @consts 299$@, the largest library for today among all programs "More than 20 GB of integrated sounds." What are we discussing In here....i really do not understand ... 
Renoise is a conceptual program that does not need so luxurious additional libraries to be sold @It has it's own Loyal warriors-users in contrast to other programs @ . Another companies feel that they can make costumers pay more for their programs only because of the fancy sounds and extra functions-addons / I do not think that it is hard to be understood ......
By functions, programs are almost all the same, but remember: Brand + Libraries + addons + STABLE UPDATES + REPUTATION + advertisements = Successful product. 
Cakewalk was taken down because one of these parts of the formula" or more" has been "exhausted" and program piracy is always a big hand to this .Btw, who remembers Cool Edit Pro ? i dont think that a lot of our users in here knows that it is today's Adobe Audition .....
Renoise was made by only 3 genius guys @ it is not a Company that owns +100 programmers\artists ...@ You can not compare Renoise to any of these programs in any aspect ....


#12 lettuce

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 03:00

I remember there was a similar discussion going on at the time when people made copies of cassettes and vhs too, later it was CD's, VCD then DVD. Piracy is always one step ahead. Those anti-piracy dongle key things are annoying as hell though. It will be horrible when all software companies want users to use the software online and pay a subscription. Like what adobe did with illustrator. Disgustingly overpriced.

 

anathema.png

 

Maybe in future software users will need to provide fingerprint or iris scan. I dont really like this idea.

Maybe they will require user to scan their passport or ID card ( not so bad I guess ).

I just dont like the idea that I must be online to use software because I might want to use it in a camper van out in the forest or something.


Edited by Barrett Wang, 12 December 2017 - 03:30.


#13 realist

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:42

..

Edited by guest_ffx, 25 December 2017 - 16:48.

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#14 Jalex

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 15:07

Medievil-Music ты глубоко не прав. Все кто используют пиратское софт, а потом начинают им зарабатывать в конце концов покупают полноценные лицензии. Поэтому твои рассуждения о пиратстве весьма беспочвенны. Я пользовался пиратским Renoise до версии 2.1 потом тупо как заработал денег с релиза купил сразу подписку до 3.1 , а еще через пару лет подписку до версии 4.1 и буду продолжать продлевать лицензию, так как я пользуюсь им постоянно. Так же и с остальным софтом. Весь пиратский софт что у меня есть я постепенно заменяю на полноценные лицензии потому что им пользуюсь.
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#15 Medievil-Music

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 20:13

Medievil-Music ты глубоко не прав. Все кто используют пиратское софт, а потом начинают им зарабатывать в конце концов покупают полноценные лицензии. Поэтому твои рассуждения о пиратстве весьма беспочвенны. Я пользовался пиратским Renoise до версии 2.1 потом тупо как заработал денег с релиза купил сразу подписку до 3.1 , а еще через пару лет подписку до версии 4.1 и буду продолжать продлевать лицензию, так как я пользуюсь им постоянно. Так же и с остальным софтом. Весь пиратский софт что у меня есть я постепенно заменяю на полноценные лицензии потому что им пользуюсь.

Друг мой, значит давай по полочкам : Ты так резко прокомментировал лишь потому, что хотел оправдаться перед собой ) Я ж говорил о тех, кто тупо живет на пиратских программах и считает, что "Раз оно доступно бесплатно, значит я имею право не платить за это"
Насчет твоего рассказа, так я так же пользовался взломанным Ренойзом до версии 1.5, и сразу как появилась возможность его купить я купил его и Ридукс. Я, ведь, объяснил выше что у нас в Сирии совсем запрещается покупать вещи через интернет, поскольку системы Виза и Мастеркард заблокированные с 2006 года из за санкций "тогдашних" против Сирии, и сразу сообщил ребятам в Ренойзе " создателям программы", что я не могу его приобрести по обстоятельствам, и они восприняли все это с пониманием и мало того, они подарили мне сразу оригинальную, зарегистрированную копию Ренойза с моим именем )) . Так что ,твой случай мне известен. А те товарищи, кто мне тут объявляет, что " пиратские программы это хорошо - потому что оригинальные софты нам не по карману" , я им разъяснил что "Ты не можешь украсть грузовик и заработать на нем деньги, дабы его окупить в конце концов", это выглядит глупо и необъяснимо.Такое нигде не практикуется, кроме в Индии, конечно) 



#16 Jalex

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:41

Друг мой, значит давай по полочкам : Ты так резко прокомментировал лишь потому, что хотел оправдаться перед собой ) Я ж говорил о тех, кто тупо живет на пиратских программах и считает, что "Раз оно доступно бесплатно, значит я имею право не платить за это"
Насчет твоего рассказа, так я так же пользовался взломанным Ренойзом до версии 1.5, и сразу как появилась возможность его купить я купил его и Ридукс. Я, ведь, объяснил выше что у нас в Сирии совсем запрещается покупать вещи через интернет, поскольку системы Виза и Мастеркард заблокированные с 2006 года из за санкций "тогдашних" против Сирии, и сразу сообщил ребятам в Ренойзе " создателям программы", что я не могу его приобрести по обстоятельствам, и они восприняли все это с пониманием и мало того, они подарили мне сразу оригинальную, зарегистрированную копию Ренойза с моим именем )) . Так что ,твой случай мне известен. А те товарищи, кто мне тут объявляет, что " пиратские программы это хорошо - потому что оригинальные софты нам не по карману" , я им разъяснил что "Ты не можешь украсть грузовик и заработать на нем деньги, дабы его окупить в конце концов", это выглядит глупо и необъяснимо.Такое нигде не практикуется, кроме в Индии, конечно) 

А чего мне перед собой оправдываться то? Тут все гораздо проще мой ответ был на русском потому что английский мой очень плох =) (будем реалистами) И это пару раз вызвало недопонимание на форуме отчего даже Dblue удалил меня из друзей. Ну тут я сам виноват наверно... =) Поэтому: Im sorry Guys! Its just my bad engrysh!!!

 

Тепер по теме:

 

Ну скажем так: Можно ведь не воровать грузовик, а взять его в аренду или рассрочку. Тут скорее вскрывается проблема в том что нет внятных программ с покупкой/арендой/рассрочкой. Те кто используют пиратский софт и бравирует этим в конце концов точно так же кладут на музыку, потому что в итоге привыкая к инструментам всегда хочется поддержки от разработчиков и ты верно заметил приятно видеть свое имя на баннере. Я считаю пиратство очень быстро помогает новичку найти свою платформу, что в перспективе делает его потенциальным клиентом. Сам в свое время накачивал тонны инструментов что в итоге свелось практически NI Pro-53 и Sonic-Charge продуктам. (первый я не успел купить по известным причинам, а вот SC у меня аж 3 продукта) Я об этом. Люди разные и всегда будут и хитрожопые. Но если софт годный он всегда найдет свою аудиторию прекрасный пример bitwig и studio one. 

 

Про Cakewalks 

Я считаю это попытки оправдаться вместо того что бы признать то что они выбрали не верную стратегию развития своих продуктов.



#17 Medievil-Music

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:24

 Люди разные и всегда будут и хитрожопые. Но если софт годный он всегда найдет свою аудиторию прекрасный пример bitwig и studio one. 

 

 

 

* ) ) касаемо Битвиг, я молчать хочу )) 

 

Про Cakewalks 

Я считаю это попытки оправдаться вместо того что бы признать то что они выбрали не верную стратегию развития своих продуктов.

** Кэквок не оправдываются . Это я за их оправдываю ) Я просто знаю команду Кэквока лол ) 



#18 Jalex

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:05

А что с Bitwig не так по твоему?

 

То что ты знаешь команду это замечательно. Но тогда почему тот же Reaper, который можно легко использовать даже в демо, живет и здравствует, а у этих ребят нет? Нынешний 



#19 Medievil-Music

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 13:08

А что с Bitwig не так по твоему?

 

То что ты знаешь команду это замечательно. Но тогда почему тот же Reaper, который можно легко использовать даже в демо, живет и здравствует, а у этих ребят нет? Нынешний 

Знаешь , это такого рода вопрос: почему горничная в германии зарабатывает больше врача в Тамбовской области ...Я не знаю почему )  



#20 lettuce

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:14

Do you really think maids in germany get paid a lot? I'm not so sure.

I need to give reaper a try. I've been yearning for audiotracks for a while.

Has anyone tried the MPC 2.0 software? It has audiotracks and realtime pitchshift and timestretch.

Maybe its a better choice?

They are offering it to me for free as I bought the MPD218 controller some time ago.

Is it worth learning it? I've been hearing on the grapevine that its actually quite good.



#21 Medievil-Music

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:01

Do you really think maids in germany get paid a lot? I'm not so sure.

I need to give reaper a try. I've been yearning for audiotracks for a while.

Has anyone tried the MPC 2.0 software? It has audiotracks and realtime pitchshift and timestretch.

Maybe its a better choice?

They are offering it to me for free as I bought the MPD218 controller some time ago.

Is it worth learning it? I've been hearing on the grapevine that its actually quite good.

A maid in Germany get paid a lot in comparing with doctors in some cities of our world. It was just a comparing between the Demo version of Reaper and the full version" that failed" of Cakewalk's anything.
Reaper is a compact and flexible\easy to use program , even the demo version in full functioned

Reaper had been written in LUA " as Renoise" BUT, it doesnt contain any conceptual integrated thread, except some basic fxs like delay\chorus\reverb ,,
Reaper is more like an Editor-Redactor than a DAW.
Users of Reaper buy a lot of vst plugins and sounds because Reaper itself can not do Nothing.
I use Reaper to record live sounds, it is perfect for recording live midi- audio performance with the minimal amount of latency between all the programs " almost 0,1 ms"
Reaper has more functions and addons for live editing the audio files.
Reaper can be a good program for bands- rock groups ...etc. But for creative people, it is not a Renoise ^_^ )mb



#22 lettuce

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:15

I think I will check out this MPC2.0 software as its free ( with MPD218 purchase )  and looks like a big improvement on MPC Essentials. Also it has timestretch and pitchshift ( something renoise needs ). Reaper looks great too...shame I cant buy it right now, low on funds.


Edited by Barrett Wang, 17 December 2017 - 03:18.


#23 OopsIFly

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 17:50

Lol, maids here in germany cannot afford cakewalk. You should know, they are indeed paid rather well in comparison to other countries. And you would be surprised how little maids there are in germany, they are mostly employed in hotels I think. Only ones who could afford a full time maid for private purposes, are the big bad fat ass slugbold ultra rich capitalist having eaten them all winners. A doctor for example most probably couldn't afford a maid in his house - maybe someone who can come to clean his house for an hour or two once per week. Doctor has to work very hard to pay the housecleaner, and to keep a modest house he probably owns, or some larger apptmnt in a city. Cleaning maid also needs to clean many houses apart from another full time job and that of her husband, to get along. You know, the amounts of money paid for work in germany may seem high in comparison to other countries, even the dole might seem like a nice income, but in reality life in germany is very expensive. If you are on this dole, you can have some minimum standards from it, but still you will be apart from the mainstream culture due to lack of money to pay things that would let you take part in it. This seems also to be a common misconception among the current imigrants - they seem to come in the illusion that it is easy to find a crazy high (to their standards) paid job and get by easily. But then reality hits them, and only people interested in employing them is the readily waiting mafia, to pay them for selling drugs or taking part in housliftings. All societies on this world are kind of golden air on the top and dirt and mud at the lower levels, germany just is kind of a rich quagmire, the richness not making it substantially different from other societies seperated to castes of different wealth and wellbeing, and this seems to be true for any society but maybe some silly jungle tribes having good times snorting vine powders and still believing the spirits talking to them that it is bad to build one's wealth by standing on the shoulders of someone forced to be in that situation while enjoying fresh air and shitting on his head.

 

Yes, even for an average german, buying music software is a major investion. So even germans would rather pirate all the hundreds of euros to get things going, even if they are from a rather rich family. For someone from a lower "caste" it would be impossible to get into business without pirating software and hustling in some way to get hold on hardware equipment.

 

I always thought this would be some unwritten law - you pirate all the stuff, until you made enough money with it to buy legit licenses. It won't work the other way round unless you are very rich, maybe some rich people would buy all the software and libraries as toys, who knows. I excluded renoise from this and bought it as a toy without having pirated it before, because it is rather cheap. Ableton for example would be some major investion for me, I couldn't easily afford it. Also I feel like renoise alone couldn't get me into business making enough money to not having to do anything else (what musicians tend to dream of...), however good I might get in using it, deadlines and expectations in regard to quality etc in the industry are just too strict to allow trying to do everything without use of lots of plugins/preset libraries. Other than in niches, that is.


Edited by OopsIFly, 18 December 2017 - 18:00.

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#24 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 21:50

 

Reaper had been written in LUA " as Renoise" BUT, it doesnt contain any conceptual integrated thread, except some basic fxs like delay\chorus\reverb ,,
 

Uhh ..not really 

Some lua extensions , but reaper is written in c ,c++, assembly .

it's the first thing that shows up when googling for it .

 

And about reaper effects , true the instruments are non existent ..basic sample player ( samplomatic ) and a ridiculous synth  ..the effects however are great .

 

2 types .

 

1) cockos effects , written in c++ , flanger , convolver reverb , multiband compressor etc...the convolution reverb is amazing , it goes far beyond just loading impulse files .

And

2)the jesus sonic suite (js)  , which offer a shitload of effects and integrated sequencers by other users and cockos  ..you obviously have not taken the time to delve into reaper .

random clip from you tube ..to show what the js language is capable of ...in this case ..megasequencer .

It's the equivalent of renoise phrases , transposible patterns , independent length and time signature ( not shown in video ., every step can be divided in 8 smaller steps/ off sets , delayed timing etc ...it's pretty awesome 

J.s. language also does audio processing 


Edited by gentleclockdivider, 18 December 2017 - 22:05.

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#25 realist

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:29

Renoise was written in lua?? This is new to me. Until now i thought it is written in c++, and it provides a scripting interface in lua, plus some functionality seems to be done in lua, like advanced edit stuff (as you can see from the combing thru speed). Is that true? That would pretty much explain a lot of problems regarding timing and speed.


Edited by ffx, 19 December 2017 - 16:10.

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