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Time stretching sync to tempo


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#1 Seburo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 16:12

Is there a way of timestretching a break to sync with the tempo but maintaining the pitch?

 

When I change the BPM it transposes the break down or up in pitch but I want it to remain the same pitch. Not fussed about the artifacts and the like you get from this, in fact thats what Im hoping for. 

 

Just wondering if there's a tool for this or an option within renoise that I may be missing.

 

Thanks

 



#2 Neurogami

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 17:03

I use Reaper for changing tempo while keeping pitch.     Another option is to use sox. It can be a bit tricky, but it's free : )

 

http://sox.sourceforge.net/



#3 Seburo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 17:39

Thanks but I meant within renoise.

 

So like under the sample properties on the sampler you can select beat sync, which keeps your break or sample in sync when you change the BPM etc. The problem is, to keep it in sync it pitches it up or down. I want to find a way where it stretches the sample but keeps the pitch the same but all within renoise so I can change the BPM on the fly but keep everything in key. 



#4 trueschool

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 17:46

There is a timestretching feature in the Phrases tool, cleverly hidden where you'd never find it.

Look in the Phrase presets under the "Special" folder, and there's a "timestretch" setting.

It'll take the selected sample and chop it up into 64(?) little grains and arrange them into a 64-line phrase. That will allow you to change your project tempo to whatever you want and your sample will play in time. 

 

I've had hit-or-miss success with it -- Like most time-stretching, it works best when your sample tempo is *somewhat* close to your project tempo. There are probably some settings I could use to fine-tune it, but I don't fully understand the Phrases tool well enough to fix it when it fails to match the tempo correctly. 

 

Still, it's quick, easy, and it works most of the time. This is such an in-demand feature, I'd really like to see Renoise build upon this functionality so we can have the flexibility Ableton users enjoy. 


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#5 m.arthur

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 22:29

There is a timestretching feature in the Phrases tool, cleverly hidden where you'd never find it.

Look in the Phrase presets under the "Special" folder, and there's a "timestretch" setting.

It'll take the selected sample and chop it up into 64(?) little grains and arrange them into a 64-line phrase. That will allow you to change your project tempo to whatever you want and your sample will play in time. 

 

I've had hit-or-miss success with it -- Like most time-stretching, it works best when your sample tempo is *somewhat* close to your project tempo. There are probably some settings I could use to fine-tune it, but I don't fully understand the Phrases tool well enough to fix it when it fails to match the tempo correctly. 

 

Still, it's quick, easy, and it works most of the time. This is such an in-demand feature, I'd really like to see Renoise build upon this functionality so we can have the flexibility Ableton users enjoy. 

 

That doesn't sound like time-stretching at all, that just sounds like slicing and arranging the slices to playback at a given BPM. I guess it's a crude form of timestretching, and btw it can be done just in Renoise's regular sample editor, you don't need to find it in the "Phrase Tool" or whatever you're referring to...

 

Usually, at least with  modern software, when we say Timestretching we are referring to an algorithm-based approach, like those found in Ableton Live and other DAWs, or like the Time Machine Pro inside Kontakt, etc. These alter time without affecting pitch, and vice versa. Currently, Renoise does not have a timestretching algorithm, and this kind of thing simply can't be done in that fashion without using other programs. The "slice to fit bpm" approach however has been around forever, and as you've said, it gives mixed results depending on tempo / how close a match, etc. You can get way more than 64 slices, though. Slice a sample, use the S commands (usually best to create the first and last commands, then interpolate between them to automatically get every value in between).


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#6 El°HYM

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 12:12

Timestretching is like #cheating anyway & also screws uP Them #transients, just microchop that shit yaself.

 

Result would be full control of the original #source.


Edited by El°HYM, 04 January 2018 - 12:13.

Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#7 Sam

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 12:48

There is a timestretching tool (I don't know where to download it, but I am guessing it's in the Tools section of this forum somewhere - I've had it for years and years and have begun to think of it as a part of Renoise). You use it by right-clicking on the sample in the sample editor and choosing "process" from the menu, which gives you a choice between pitch-shifting while keeping the tempo, tempo-shifting while keeping the pitch (ie. timestretching) and ... I forget what the third option is. Soz.

 

If you know the bpm of your sample it is very easy to covert it to the bpm of the project. Otherwise you might have to experiment to get it right. Messing around with extreme settings is a fun creative tool as well, especially on vocal samples. 


EDIT: Actually, it was pretty easy to find: http://www.renoise.c...tch-pitch-shift


Edited by Sam, 04 January 2018 - 12:49.

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#8 m.arthur

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 17:05

 

EDIT: Actually, it was pretty easy to find: http://www.renoise.c...tch-pitch-shift

 

I'd totally overlooked this one, thanks for the heads up!

 

-M


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#9 El°HYM

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:32

Might not be the #exact Thing you was looking 4, yeT!

 

 

http://www.renoise.com/tools/cells

 

 

Does indeed offer a workaround & offers #realtime Timestretching/Sync.

 

 

Needs the 2.8.2 Renoise Version though; which is also the Best Version, so far  :ph34r:


Inside ur Renoise; helping Byte-Smasher putting Cab Sims on ur Master.  :ph34r: 


#10 triple zero

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:27



That doesn't sound like time-stretching at all, that just sounds like slicing and arranging the slices to playback at a given BPM. I guess it's a crude form of timestretching, and btw it can be done just in Renoise's regular sample editor, you don't need to find it in the "Phrase Tool" or whatever you're referring to...

 

Usually, at least with  modern software, when we say Timestretching we are referring to an algorithm-based approach, like those found in Ableton Live and other DAWs, or like the Time Machine Pro inside Kontakt, etc. These alter time without affecting pitch, and vice versa. Currently, Renoise does not have a timestretching algorithm, and this kind of thing simply can't be done in that fashion without using other programs. The "slice to fit bpm" approach however has been around forever, and as you've said, it gives mixed results depending on tempo / how close a match, etc. You can get way more than 64 slices, though. Slice a sample, use the S commands (usually best to create the first and last commands, then interpolate between them to automatically get every value in between).

 

But to be fair, if you're using Ableton and you're sampling rhythms or rythmically, you'll want to use "Beats" mode anyway. Because like El HYM said, anything else is going to mess up your transients (and you might need to manually finetune the transient markers, cause they often seem to end up right on top of the transient, but maybe that's me being anal).

 

Anyway, you can reproduce this behaviour in Renoise using slices: Place slice markers where you'd have your transient markers (or use the auto-slice button, but I never use it so I have no idea if it's any good). Then, without worrying about pitch for now, sync it to your BPM. Optionally prepend silence to be in time with whole beats and append more silence until it's a nice power of two in length. Now you right-click and do "Render Slices to Phrase". Doublecheck if the phrase indeed plays the sample in time to your beat (if not, check the Render Slices Options). If it does, you can reset the pitch back to normal (or however you want to pitchshift). Also, the various quantization options give you control over warping.

 

That's the basic setup for Ableton's "Beats" mode timestretching. The default setting for "Beats" mode is that all slices have a full ping-pong loop set, and a short attack and release so that they somewhat fade into each other. If you're familiar with the other "Beats" timestretching settings, it should be self-explanatory how to adjust the Renoise setup. Not entirely sure if you can exactly reproduce the percentage slider, but with the proper modulation envelopes you can get very close. But then, this is Renoise, so you can now do so much more :) For instance edit the phrase, add note-offs to cut slices prematurely, pitch shift, retrigger, FX, whatever.

 

And yeah for the other kinds of stretching, the rubberband tool works excellent :)


Edited by triple zero, 14 January 2018 - 01:28.

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