Jump to content


Photo

I have > 2500 unfinished XRNS files. You?

unfinished

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 Garf

Garf

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:38

I was just cleaning up my storage and figured that I have a massive amount of unfinished songs/loops, more than 2500  :badteeth:  I guess it's fair to say that I struggle to finish songs, I really need to fix this as there's quite a few that deserve some sugar. Truth is I always get like a mental block at the arranger and automation, for me these things are a bit cumbersome to be honest to a degree where I just go njahh..  :huh:

 

I'll throw up some tunes open for collab at some point and I'll be looking for people who enjoy arranging and automating haha..

 

Do you have many unfinished songs and if so why do you think that is?


  • Djeroek, random and Medievil-Music like this

#2 Medievil-Music

Medievil-Music

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Russia

Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:45

I was just cleaning up my storage and figured that I have a massive amount of unfinished songs/loops, more than 2500  :badteeth:  I guess it's fair to say that I struggle to finish songs, I really need to fix this as there's quite a few that deserve some sugar. Truth is I always get like a mental block at the arranger and automation, for me these things are a bit cumbersome to be honest to a degree where I just go njahh..  :huh:

 

I'll throw up some tunes open for collab at some point and I'll be looking for people who enjoy arranging and automating haha..

 

Do you have many unfinished songs and if so why do you think that is?

 

I have maybe 6 unfinished songs since 2004.
The problem is: When you sit down to make a song, your goal is to Discover your own metal variants of melodies and musical phrases ...etc= it is an improvisation. You do not focus on finishing a song, i think. You are having fun while doing the process, not by getting a results. I dunno, does that bother you at all ? maybe these songs have such a destiny ^_^ .Means, they are not advanced enough to be finished or the idea is too young to be released . Sometimes you need to finish a full song in your brain, then start doing it on your pc. 
A lot of people asking me to do a video tutorial about these issue: How to finish a song from zero, because i have a very huge amount of tracks as a single composer\producer [more than 1000 tracks or something like that] I think its all about your plan. When improvising on PC = there is no plan.
In another words, it all depends on your goals, not on the techniques. 
In our days Musicians buy everything for their own music: fancy vsts/ analog processors/ fancy monitors / expensive audio cards ....etc. The question is : do these things make your music better?? 

I'm not talking about form, I'm talking about the content part.
I know that in order to obtain high-quality sound, it is necessary to have certain techniques and sound cards .. But, if the basic idea does not meet the requirements of our days, then these techniques will only come in as decorators, no more.
All audio companies in the world have done everything to turn musicians into consumers. They began to persuade that these techniques are in a trend, and you, as a musician, MUST have certain audio cards and speakers ... etc
I've been writing my music on a laptop with headphones since 2004. I do not think that musicians need certain techniques in order to complete their works and songs.we dont need all these fxs and useless vsts'.We need a plan of action, not more.
I mean, look, for example at Deadmau5 .... I have no words in his case. Well, why the hell should he sit in this nuclear power plant and show off, if such tracks can be achieved using only a daw as Renoise! Without any modules and even without the using any vst plug-ins ...I can even prove it and remake any track you chose from deadmaus's discography using Only Renoise ..He is doing a PR for hundreds of firms out there ....
Just follow your heart and let your brain do the plan part. There will be less unfinished songs ^_^

  • Garf and xiiln909 like this

#3 Raegae

Raegae

    Local Chief Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 234 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Turku Finland

Posted 11 January 2018 - 13:17

I have changed laptop many times in recent years. I also had desktop computer before laptops. My problem is that a huge part of my unfinished songs are on hard disks/usb-sticks which are forgotten in closet after moving around. I think that I have some hundreds of unfinished songs there somewhere in those disks. So my next work should be to find those disks and look into them. I only dimly remember that there was many songs that had potential.

 

Yeah, for me also the process seems to be more important than finishing songs. But it is also rewarding to publish songs and see how they start living in interweb.


  • Garf likes this

#4 Tumulte

Tumulte

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 46 posts

Posted 11 January 2018 - 15:58

You know, 2500 filles is an achievement in itself. It's not failure, it's a performance. It's art.

 

On a serious note, it's a common thing for each and every creative thing : starting is fun, finishing is pain. Which is sad, because it keeps us away from the sweet sweet feeling of accomplishment…

 

I've noticed that the only times I managed to finish anything were when I manage to forget the fear of disappointment/failure… either I didn't care or I had a deadline, so self-awareness had no place in the process.

 

Personal anecdote : the first EP I ever pulled out (it was imperfect to a critical degree, but it was finished) after 10years of fiddling around was at a point of my life where I didn't feel like I had to prove anything (nice job, nothing to complain about).  Somehow music became fun, and it lifted the mental block you talked about. 

 That said, with discipline and method (never more than 4 unfinished song… 48h challenge… getting a gig with a deadline) it's possible to actually become efficient.


  • Garf, Djeroek, random and 2 others like this

#5 xiiln909

xiiln909

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC
  • Interests:deconstruction/ minimalism/ urban/ grit/

Posted 11 January 2018 - 16:29

@majed: great, great post!

 

I think Roger Linn stated something similar a few years back, pointing out that one of the big secrets of the music instrument industry is, that no one actually needs a new instrument in order to create new music..


  • Medievil-Music likes this

#6 Akiz

Akiz

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1000 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:06

 

I have maybe 6 unfinished songs since 2004.
The problem is: When you sit down to make a song, your goal is to Discover your own metal variants of melodies and musical phrases ...etc= it is an improvisation. You do not focus on finishing a song, i think. You are having fun while doing the process, not by getting a results. I dunno, does that bother you at all ? maybe these songs have such a destiny ^_^ .Means, they are not advanced enough to be finished or the idea is too young to be released . Sometimes you need to finish a full song in your brain, then start doing it on your pc. ...

 

Ok, lets leave Polaris out of this. Are you sure that you can make that juicy filters in Renoise?

Btw. this is made by the beta version of the strobe VSTi. Deadmau5 uses vsti a lot, ive got feeling that he has his studio because he can. I own some hw but none is present in any of my tracks so i can understand the difference between having fun and being practical :].
 


Edited by Akiz, 12 January 2018 - 08:09.

  • Medievil-Music likes this

#7 Garf

Garf

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:10

@Medievil, you are right, I don't have a song in my head before I start, I'm just fiddling with the sounds until I've made something worth listening to and then the trouble starts, I just can't seem to flesh it out into a good song structure with proper automation and transitions.. I think you're definitely right about having an idea of a song before you start, or at least focused on the genre hehe.. I'll try that when I boot up Renoise and then I think I need some serious song structure practice so I don't get caught in an infinite loop of nothing.

 

Thanks for the input guys! Just wondering how on earth you two can have so few unfinished songs, that's mind-boggling :)


  • Medievil-Music likes this

#8 Akiz

Akiz

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1000 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:48

There is a lot of artist who starts with experimenting and without any clear idea. You dont have to be a songwriter with a plan to write a song (but it must be great to be one).
To be honest i ve got also huge problem with finishing songs. I lost a motivation after playing one loop over and over again. And i am not very good in variations and transitions so I am not used to like my "finished tracks".
But there is one popular technique that works very well with repetitious music and can work for you
1) make your loop full of instruments, a lot various layers - usually 4bar loop.
2) Distribute instruments and their patterns across the whole song. 
3) Start making changes etc. 
 


Edited by Akiz, 11 January 2018 - 18:49.


#9 Beatslaughter

Beatslaughter

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2307 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany
  • Interests:Music, Blu-ray, PC Games

Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:59

Why not go through those snippets again and start rendering out a ton of loops with drums, melodies, effects etc, then you have a huge library of your own stuff to play around with and throwing some songs together based on loops is not that hard, since you have most of the distracting things already done. Fiddling with fx, automation and such should be minimal. Once you have the basic song structure down you can do some refinement and once done, there you go, all you did was prepare a big sample collection to source from and ease up the actual song making. :)


  • Djeroek and kytdkut like this

#10 Neurogami

Neurogami

    Big Super GrandMasta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 735 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottsdale AZ
  • Interests:Art, music, technology

Posted 11 January 2018 - 19:48

I have maybe 50 xrns song sketches.  And maybe 100 or so short audio recordings of brief guitar or bass riffings. 

 

Every so often I go through the audio files and make notes.  95% of the time the riff or chord sequence that sounded so awesome in my head fails to translate when recorded and then listened back some time later.  But even a small return on the effort is worth it.  

 

If I can get something catchy and engaging once out of every 20 times that's a win.

 

Often these better riffs and ideas get turned into xrns files, where I'll fill out the arrangement.  Some of these xrns files are little more than a sequence of 10 or 15 different bass riffs with some simple percussion backing.

 

Most are not going to get anywhere.  But I've gone back to some xrns files and been pleasantly surprised.  Fresh ears can do wonders.

 

I've gotten better at pushing through and finishing pieces and releasing them to Bandcamp, etc.  I'm now more aligned with generating more output of possibly less-than-stellar quality instead of trying to perfect each track before it goes out,  (I still have to really like something before I release it  but I don't fret over small details that in all likelihood only I will notice.)

 

I try to focus on whatever handful of tracks that still excite me even after some time has passed rather than dwelling over what I could do to fix up all the others than maybe don't hold up as well.

 

Working, releasing, and moving on is a great liberator and, for me, a good way to improve my output.

 

I would love to have a way to create a playlist of xrns files so that I could periodically grab all those in-progress works and listen to them.    The next alternative might be to make a point of always rendering xrns files so that there's always a recent wav or mp3 version I can grab to see if something grabs me.

 

Having 2K+ files, though, would be quite the challenge : )


  • random, pat and MattD like this

#11 Medievil-Music

Medievil-Music

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Russia

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:19

Ok, lets leave Polaris out of this. Are you sure that you can make that juicy filters in Renoise?

Btw. this is made by the beta version of the strobe VSTi. Deadmau5 uses vsti a lot, ive got feeling that he has his studio because he can. I own some hw but none is present in any of my tracks so i can understand the difference between fun and being practical.
 

Are you telling me that if i will make a video about how to do that in Renoise, you will admit that ? Of course not, you will deny by saying : this is not what i meant ,

not that sound ....etc. I think it is a useless argument.I know these schemes. :P

There is a lot of artist who starts with experimenting and without any clear idea. You dont have to be a songwriter with a plan to write a song (but it must be great to be one).
To be honest i ve got also huge problem with finishing songs. I lost a motivation after playing one loop over and over again. And i am not very good in variations and transitions so I am not used to like my "finished tracks".
But there is one popular technique that works very well with repetitious music and can work for you
1) make your loop full of instruments, a lot various layers - usually 4bar loop.
2) Distribute instruments and their patterns across the whole song. 
3) Start making changes etc. 
 

I did not say that someone Needs to be a songwriter to write a song. I compose music since a long time, despite this, I do not have minimal musical knowledge in the field of chords and musical literacy { i even dont know what the hell am i playing, which chords, notes ....etc} .Just follow your intuition. It is that easy.


@majed: great, great post!

 

I think Roger Linn stated something similar a few years back, pointing out that one of the big secrets of the music instrument industry is, that no one actually needs a new instrument in order to create new music..

People always forget that the holy J.S BACH wrote his emperor of 2022 BWV compositions using only a god damn paper and a pen lol ....can you believe that ..



#12 4Tey

4Tey

    Big GrandDaddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 485 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:25

People always forget that the holy J.S BACH wrote his emperor of 2022 BWV compositions using only a god damn paper and a pen lol ....can you believe that ..

Yes, more like just over a thousand (known), but who's counting?  I also believe that Bach could score using just paper and quill.


  • Medievil-Music likes this

#13 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6911 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 12 January 2018 - 18:13

Why not go through those snippets again and start rendering out a ton of loops with drums, melodies, effects etc, then you have a huge library of your own stuff to play around with and throwing some songs together based on loops is not that hard, since you have most of the distracting things already done. 

 

+1 And don't forget to grab SliceMate while you're at it  ;)


  • Neurogami likes this

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#14 Djeroek

Djeroek

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6773 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Borneo

Posted 13 January 2018 - 15:27

Some good advices^

Do you have many unfinished songs and if so why do you think that is?

definitely not 2500, but a significant amount surely :) , playing around with sounds there are just too many options to explore it is often hard to focus. In the past I've wasted years not finishing tracks due to perfectionism, now I focus on the play element and creativity seems to flow natural, without forcing towards some ultimate result. Also keep in mind you can revisit tunes and make variations, you don't necessarily have to go from ex to the next all the time. Perhaps you're a top-down arrangement kind of tracker, lego'ing in the note events 'offline' opposed to a more 'realtime' performance based songmaker? You could try experimenting with looping the pattern ideas you have now, hook up parameters (track volumes / effects etc) to a midi controller and record the master audio. I.o.w jam :) . Even if you wouldn't want to release these jam recordings, often they can break open the status quo of just a loop and offer different ideas/paths to take.  

 

Someone on another forum once posted a video of John Cleese talking about creativity in a similar thread about not finishing work, perhaps worth watching;



#15 assink

assink

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 January 2018 - 16:00

Also at least a couple of hundred i guess.... tho most of em i dont consider as unfinished tracks in a way... but more just experimenting with things... and when something is cool then i save it with the idea that i maybe would open the project again later to see how i did a certain thing... But obviously those projects stay unopened 99% of the time \o/



#16 Akiz

Akiz

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1000 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 January 2018 - 16:36

Are you telling me that if i will make a video about how to do that in Renoise, you will admit that ? Of course not, you will deny by saying : this is not what i meant ,

not that sound ....etc. I think it is a useless argument.I know these schemes. :P

I did not say that someone Needs to be a songwriter to write a song. I compose music since a long time, despite this, I do not have minimal musical knowledge in the field of chords and musical literacy { i even dont know what the hell am i playing, which chords, notes ....etc} .Just follow your intuition. It is that easy.


People always forget that the holy J.S BACH wrote his emperor of 2022 BWV compositions using only a god damn paper and a pen lol ....can you believe that ..

If you make that video you will create the best promo video renoise can ever have :-D.
But really... I dont want to argue, i would love to know that renoise instrument can sound like strobe. I would love to know that i can work in a box and have result like with commercial vst.

I would switch to linux then... 


Edited by Akiz, 13 January 2018 - 16:37.


#17 Gavin Graham

Gavin Graham

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brisbane, Australia
  • Interests:Chiptune, Bitpop, 8bit Core

Posted 13 January 2018 - 23:48

My WiP (Works in Progress) directory is currently sitting at 24 unfinished. I don't know if there's any issue with not completing a large number of works. I'd rather release a few good quality (or at least that I'm comfortable with) pieces of music that a glut of shite. :)


Me on Soundcloud: My link

#18 Meef Chaloin

Meef Chaloin

    Big Masta Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 520 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:04

I always try to go back to them at some point, some of the best stuff I've done has come from fleshing out old unfinished projects. 



#19 gentleclockdivider

gentleclockdivider

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2839 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:something like a sea or a river...just moving
  • Interests:slacking

Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:39

yeah been there too , 

Be hard for yourself , open each and every loop /song you have ...does it instantly trigger the same feeling as when you' made it ?

If  not : delete it .

 

See post above , some (old )loops are like wine ...


Edited by gentleclockdivider, 14 January 2018 - 03:41.

  • Akiz likes this

THERE IS NO RELIGION SUPERIOR TO THE TRUTH


THERE IS NO TRUTH SUPERIOR TO THE ONE I CHOOSE

C'EST MIEUX D'ETRE BELLE ET REBELLE


QUE MOCHE ET REMOCHE



RUBIO RABIA

 


#20 Akiz

Akiz

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1000 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:50

btw. does anybody here smokes weed before / during composing? just curious...
Ive got feeling that this habit made finishing songs much harder for me than before when i wasnt been smoking.  
The dark side of it - i dont enjoy making music without it.


Edited by Akiz, 14 January 2018 - 06:50.

  • Zer0 Fly likes this

#21 Denim

Denim

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1036 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bergen, Norway
  • Interests:soundcloud.com/novadope

Posted 16 January 2018 - 15:56

Unfinished, approx:

*.xrns = 2105
*.rns = 416 

*.xm = 527 
*.rbs = 92
*.wrk = 377
*.cwp = 83

:blink:  :badteeth:


  • sokoban likes this

soundcloud | studio 

 

join in ---> renoise user map


#22 thalamus

thalamus

    Big Daddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cambridge, UK
  • Interests:Sound

Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:35

I was just cleaning up my storage and figured that I have a massive amount of unfinished songs/loops, more than 2500  :badteeth:  I guess it's fair to say that I struggle to finish songs, I really need to fix this as there's quite a few that deserve some sugar. Truth is I always get like a mental block at the arranger and automation, for me these things are a bit cumbersome to be honest to a degree where I just go njahh..  :huh:

 

I'll throw up some tunes open for collab at some point and I'll be looking for people who enjoy arranging and automating haha..

 

Do you have many unfinished songs and if so why do you think that is?

 

Heres a piece of wisdom that took me many, many years to arrive at, I hope it helps...

 

If you find that you spend more time starting things, falling down the rabbit hole of detail in crafting the sounds along the way ... and this means that you end up with lots of unfinished works then consider this; what gives you more pleasure.. starting/experimenting or finishing a tune?

 

Sometimes I need to finish tunes because it's my job to deliver something to someone who expects a completed work. But most of the time I spend simply using the tools, the instruments. We are a student of our own muse forever. Don't let this become a negative for you, it's quite the opposite.

 

To paint it slightly differently; what is the purpose of finishing a piece of music? 



#23 assink

assink

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:21

btw. does anybody here smokes weed before / during composing? just curious...
Ive got feeling that this habit made finishing songs much harder for me than before when i wasnt been smoking.  
The dark side of it - i dont enjoy making music without it.

I find it indeed a Lot easier to finish stuff since i stopped smoking weed...  :)
 



#24 FossilCreature

FossilCreature

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Almost Quebec
  • Interests:Knitting, ironing, backgammon frontgammon,
    Tea time, bingo...mushroom hunting, xrp, pixel art

Posted 23 January 2018 - 22:35

I find it indeed a Lot easier to finish stuff since i stopped smoking weed...  :)
 

 

They say smoking weed helps with creativity but it sure does make a person lazy and forgetful.

 

...

 

also, I wonder how many unfinished songs I have. I bet it's around that much or more. I don't see a problem with it unless i'm not finishing anything.

You see, I never left my experimental phase. I have moved away from a little but i'm always looking for new ideas and inspiration. 

I find it's getting easier to finish songs the more I do it, but i'm really good at intros and not so good at outros. 

 

I decided to make a website called songfragments for my (and others) unfinished songs I want to donate to the public. It's not finished and so far it has a few unfinished songs that I don't care about

that much but I don't consider complete crap. Actually some of the songs are crappy.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: unfinished